Why I believe (possibly Trump as well) why liberals are WRONG on illegal immigration

ChristJudgeOfAll

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This isn't meant to bash, this is just why I believe fundamentally that the liberal or leftish stance on illegal immigration is wrong

1) We are a country of laws. This idea is simply, they broke our laws, and they need to be punished. Amnesty shouldn't be given, because that would be rewarding them for breaking our laws.

2) The cost of deportation is a price we must pay. When I externed for a superior court judge, there was a case involving the theft of a iPad. The cost to prosecute the case was very expense, it required court time, it required a jury pool, and the ultimate cost of trying to prosecute a stolen iPad far exceeded the cost of the iPad itself. But we must recognize that we are a country of laws, and in order to keep a fair and ordered society, enforcement costs must be paid for.

3) The principle of "stare decisis" because a common law country such as the U.S.A. revolves around the idea that the law above all else is fair and treats people in similar situations similarly. That is why we rely on precedent.
If we grant the immigrants who came here illegal, a free pass into our country, we are not treating the immigrants who wait in line for many years and spend lots of money to follow our laws fairly. We cannot be a country that gives greater benefits to illegal immigrations than to legal immigrants.

4) The idea that we are all immigrants that does warrant we give extra slack to illegal immigrants. Some, certainly not all, but certain liberals I have encountered uses the argument that because most if not all Americans (except the Natives) are all immigrants. Some, the even more extreme ones accuses all of us of being once illegal immigrants because we invaded North America.

This argument is absurd on a few grounds.

1) It assumes that decedents are responsible for the acts of their ancestors (not true).
2) We took North America on the concept of war, which is very different, war is almost always a legally binding way of implementing a new government/system.
3) This argument basically is saying, everyone who wants into our country should get in because we were once immigrants, which is a absurd argument.

5) There is really only one fair way to do this, we need to deport all the immigrants who are here illegally, and make them come through legal means.
 

Armoured

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war is almost always a legally binding way of implementing a new government/system.
CommentPhotos.com_1407345336.jpg
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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Present day China= result of war
Present day Japan= result of war
Present day Soviet Union= result of war
Present day USA= result of war

Shall I list just about every nation in the world?

I guess China should divide into 200 tribal regions again right instead of one unified country?
I guess U.S.A. should split into 100 native tribes again eh
I guess 50% of Europe needs to be returned back to monarchy rule which ended as the result of bloody revolutions eh?

Cause you know, any government setup through war is a non-legally binding government.

You realize the borders of every nation in the world is drawn on war. How else do you have borders? You fought over land and then borders were established.
 
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Armoured

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Present day China= result of war
Present day Japan= result of war
Present day Soviet Union= result of war
Present day USA= result of war

Shall I list just about every nation in the world?

I guess China should divide into 200 tribal regions again right instead of one unified country?
I guess U.S.A. should split into 100 native tribes again eh
I guess 50% of Europe needs to be returned back to monarchy rule which ended as the result of bloody revolutions eh?

Cause you know, any government setup through war is a non-legally binding government.

You realize the borders of every nation in the world is drawn on war. How else do you have borders? You fought over land and then borders were established.
Paradigm that lost a lot of popularity around 1945. I think I saw a documentary about it once...
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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Paradigm that lost a lot of popularity around 1945. I think I saw a documentary about it once...

Do you not see the absurdity of the argument though, that we must allow illegal immigrations because this country was founded on war and invasion?

If such a logic applied anywhere under any legal system, all governments would cease to function. There almost isn't any functioning government today that wasn't founded on war.
 
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jayem

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Present day USA= result of war

For the record, a good part of the US was bought. The Louisiana Purchase accounts for about 1/3 of present day US. (Though Napoleon needed cash for his wars.) We got Florida, and parts of AL, and MS from Spain in return for assuming several million dollars in claims the settlers had against the Spanish. We bought Alaska. And even California and all the southwestern states, which we won after Mexican war, was technically a purchase. We forgave millions of dollars of Mexico's debt to us in return for the land.
 
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Armoured

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Do you not see the absurdity of the argument though, that we must allow illegal immigrations because this country was founded on war and invasion?

If such a logic applied anywhere under any legal system, all governments would cease to function. There almost isn't any functioning government today that wasn't founded on war.
That wasn't my argument.
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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That wasn't my argument.

I never made any statement regarding any argument you made. I made a statement regarding the argument of "some" as I mentioned in the OP.

The entire post was regarding the plausibly of certain leftist arguments. It has nothing to do with you, you made a comment which seem to jest at why I think the said argument was invalid, which suggests you supported said argument.
 
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pakicetus

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I'm not sure about amnesty. I used to support it because it would give the Democratic Party votes--but if it became unpopular and Americans blamed the Democrats, that might not happen.

By the way, I don't think many people want complete amnesty. They just want a path to citizenship, with requirements, which is much different.
 
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pakicetus

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I'm not convinced by the argument that we need to stop illegal immigration because it's illegal. If that's the case, amnesty should solve the problem, 'cause then it wouldn't be illegal anymore! Plus there are all kinds of dumb laws we shouldn't even think about enforcing (an example of "big government"). I only care about the argument that illegal immigration harms humanity more than mass deportation would.

Notice I said "humanity," not just "American citizens," because I also reject any argument that doesn't expect me to be compassionate toward illegals. That includes the argument that illegals "take our jobs"--like I'm only supposed to care about "us" and not "them." (Many people, including a lot of liberals and leftists, make the same argument against free trade; I ignore it then too.)
 
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The Cadet

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We are a nation of laws, to be sure, but it behooves us to also be people of empathy. The problem with just taking a broad-brush "Deport 'em all!" approach is that, for many of them, this is their home, and they know no other home. Yes, the woman whose mother carried her over the border when she was two is technically an illegal immigrant. But she's lived her whole life here. She knows no other home. She has friends, family, maybe her own children. This is not just a question of money. Talk about the economics of it all you want, but this is also a question of basic human decency and dignity. To rip someone from the only home they have ever known and deport them to a country they do not know and that they do not call home (and I'm willing to bet in some rare cases, they don't even speak spanish) is monstrous. This is what makes this such a hard issue, and why a pathway to citizenship is so important.
 
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Vylo

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Massive numbers of Irish and Italians flooded this country around the turn of the century, more proportionally than are immigrating both legally and illegally today.

It didn't destroy us then and it wouldn't now to allow more people to immigrate.
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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Massive numbers of Irish and Italians flooded this country around the turn of the century, more proportionally than are immigrating both legally and illegally today.

It didn't destroy us then and it wouldn't now to allow more people to immigrate.

What didn't hurt us before, can hurt us now. I fail to see why someone didn't hurt us in the past wouldn't hurt us in the present.

I took one pill on monday, it didn't hurt, so more must not hurt right, let's take 3 pills now, 4 pills, 5 pills, Dead.
 
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