Why i am a baptist

[Goodbook]

Just call yourself a christian.
Thats enough for people to know what you stand for.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have been to diffrerant Baptist churches over many years, never heard a minister speak of Calvinism vs Arminianism, or predestination, Tulip, free will, etc. They kept it simple, best way in my view.
I did know a Pentecostal minister who told me privately he believed in OSAS, but he would never preach it from the pulpit for ''obvious reasons''

That never made much sense to an idealist like me. If you believe something in the faith, why not preach it?

 

[Goodbook]

Yea i never heard it either in the baptist church. When i went to a presy i ntoiced something different about their preaching and wondered why they keeped constantly going on about ephesians and quoting particular passages on how they were elected and destined and thats how i found out they were calvinists as i looked it up online.

I mean they assumed only they were chosen children of God and everyone else is damned from birth. Which is the gist of it. But that assumption is NOT the gospel.

 

[Goodbook]

One of my friends who grew up in a presy church never heard the gospel until she went elsewhere i think she may have been saved when baptists told her the gospel. Or was it pentecostals. One of them, i met her in the baptist church anyway.

She now goes to a full gospel church but..i think she goes to ones her friend went to as shes rather non denominational, she was going to a baptist because it was closest although she told me the baptists are a reserved bunch i think she prefers the happy clappy style of worship.

 

[Goodbook]

If you go to a presy, which i did for a year or so as the church was closer, you will notice that they often preach on topics like predestination, how God chose you before you were born and put you in that church, that only that church and 'we' inherit the blessings.

I think it can be a good thing to think you are special and chosen by God of course, but it can also be an arrogant thing to start thinking you are more special than other people. And not reach out to them because now you start assuming God didnt pick other ppl cos they are not coming to your church. So instead of preaching any kind of gospel and training evangelists or upholding Jesus name they just pray for people to come to their church instead.

 

[Goodbook]

Anyway i never was so more confused as when I went to the presy and noticed the difference.
It took me a while to study it out and realise that the tulip thing was based on wrong assumptions.
When we discussed the whole thing of being chosen by God in the baptist church ladies bible study i asked our leader what she thought and she said its hard to get your head round but it really is both. Gods will and our will. So theres no calvinism vs arminism at all, its just mans ideas on the way God goes about saving mankind.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

I believe abortion is wrong and against God, but unfortunely not all follow God. :-( in a perfect world people wouldn't even think twice about having one, but the world is far from perfect. That is why I said, I dont know what to call myself..I am against abortion but everyone should have the right to choose just like we choose what religion if any we follow. […]

You should call yourself ‘pro-life’, because you believe in the right of the foetus to live and you believe that abortion is wrong. What you are saying is that you do not really condemn women who do it. That is an acceptable viewpoint.

Those who call themselves ‘pro-choice’ believe that abortion is acceptable, and that there is no problem with that. If you believe that it is wrong, you are ‘pro-life’ — even if you are not very strong in condemning those who do it, and even if perhaps you would still legalise it.

In other words, the main question abortion is whether it is moral or immoral — not whether it should be carried out or not. Many ‘pro-life’ people would still (like me) agree that it is exceptionally acceptable for a woman to abort if she has been raped, or if she is in a life-threatening situation, even if it is still immoral in such cases.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Just call yourself a christian.
Thats enough for people to know what you stand for.

I disagree. Nowadays, many Christians hold many different viewpoints. Take, for instance, Creation, and you will find at least four main theories within Christianity: Flat Earth, Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism and Theistic Evolution. Take abortion, and you will find two contrary viewpoints: pro-life and pro-choice. Take women, and you will find those who think women must be silent in church, those who think women can speak but cannot assume important roles, those who think women cannot be pastors/preachers but can be anything else, and those who think women can have any role in church.

So, no, I do not think that just telling the world, ‘I am a Christian’ is enough to clarify all the things you stand for.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I disagree. Nowadays, many Christians hold many different viewpoints. Take, for instance, Creation, and you will find at least four main theories within Christianity: Flat Earth, Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism and Theistic Evolution. Take abortion, and you will find two contrary viewpoints: pro-life and pro-choice. Take women, and you will find those who think women must be silent in church, those who think women can speak but cannot assume important roles, those who think women cannot be pastors/preachers but can be anything else, and those who think women can have any role in church.

So, no, I do not think that just telling the world, ‘I am a Christian’ is enough to clarify all the things you stand for.

In the first century church people were accepted as believers who wanted Gentile converts to obey the whole of the Mosaic law and be circumcised(Acts15:5)
The Apostle Paul was obviously also accepted as a believer. There was only one church denomination at that time, it obviously covered a broad spectrum of people.
If only the same could be so today

 

[stuart lawrence]

Anyway i never was so more confused as when I went to the presy and noticed the difference.
It took me a while to study it out and realise that the tulip thing was based on wrong assumptions.
When we discussed the whole thing of being chosen by God in the baptist church ladies bible study i asked our leader what she thought and she said its hard to get your head round but it really is both. Gods will and our will. So theres no calvinism vs arminism at all, its just mans ideas on the way God goes about saving mankind.

I am totally ignorant on presbatyrians. I never knew they were the denomination most closely linked with Calvin's views.
Charles Spurgeon spoke very highly of Calvin, he was sure Calvin got his beliefs straight from the Apostle Paul. I honestly don't know when Presbeterianism started, but would have thought, going by Spurgeons glowing tribute to Calvin he would then have been a presbeterian, not Baptist.
I promise you, I am being sincere. I am grateful to you for telling me Presbeterian belief, I never before knew.
Is it really true that Presbeterians believe only people in their own denomination are saved? I know little of them, but have never previously heard that view

 

[Goodbook]

Well, it is taught that way in their seminaries that calvin had it all right and everyone else is wrong.
Although on the surface it looks like a normal christian church. And most of the people are lovely and truly born again christians, but if you overlay calvinsim onto this, it makes out for a very elect club of people. I noticed the minister always was admonishing himself for not being humble. You can get a very big head if you a minister in a calvinist church, and believe you are the chosen one.

Matthew 24:24 is a warning to any such person involved with calvinism.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Well, it is taught that way in their seminaries that calvin had it all right and everyone else is wrong.
Although on the surface it looks like a normal christian church. And most of the people are lovely and truly born again christians, but if you overlay calvinsim onto this, it makes out for a very elect club of people. I noticed the minister always was admonishing himself for not being humble. You can get a very big head if you a minister in a calvinist church, and believe you are the chosen one.

Matthew 24:24 is a warning to any such person involved with calvinism.

I'm certainly not defending Presbeteryian churches, I have never been to one! But if there is an elect, I would have thought Christians should accept they were not predestined according to their personal goodness, but God's mercy, therefore they should be humbly grateful, not proud of themselves.
But the way Spurgeon spoke of Calvin, it was with such esteem I would honestly wonder why presbeteryians and Baptists were not much closer than they are.

If I remember correctly(I say if lol) Spurgeon believed Calvin got his views from Augustine, who in turn leant his views from Paul's letters

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Surely we have free will! But we are also predestined to be Christians.

I know, these are two difficult things to reconcile. My belief is that five-point Calvinism reconciles them adequately. We, Christians, are primarily chosen by God to be Christians, since the Bible says we have been elected; the first few verses of Ephesians 1, especially verses 4, 5 and 11, talk about this very interestingly. This means that all Christians are bound to become Christians at some point, because God wants it to happen. Why God wanted me to become a Christian and not 99% of the world, I do not know; his will is too mysterious for me to probe. However, I can know that this is true.

Regarding free will, we do have free will, since God bids us come to him to follow him (Deuteronomy 30:19). However, we can only truly follow him when he ‘makes us alive in Christ’ (Ephesians 2:5). Before that, we are dead in our sin (Ephesians 2:1), and unable to choose to follow God — we have free will, but free will does not allow us to do something that is beyond our nature, such as accepting Christ. Afterwards, we become free to do good or evil, although, of course, God is still sovereign and controls everything, namely our salvation.

Reconciling predestination with free will is a complicated issue, and the Bible is not clear about it, but it can be done. Ultimately, though, we will only entirely understand it when we get to Heaven, when our minds are changed beyond our so finite and limited comprehension.

I believe there are some things you don't quite understand.

http://cbctinleypark.org/assets/calvinism.pdf

TE]

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

http://cbctinleypark.org/assets/baptists.pdf

 

[mikedsjr]

I am totally ignorant on presbatyrians. I never knew they were the denomination most closely linked with Calvin's views.
Charles Spurgeon spoke very highly of Calvin, he was sure Calvin got his beliefs straight from the Apostle Paul. I honestly don't know when Presbeterianism started, but would have thought, going by Spurgeons glowing tribute to Calvin he would then have been a presbeterian, not Baptist.
I promise you, I am being sincere. I am grateful to you for telling me Presbeterian belief, I never before knew.
Is it really true that Presbeterians believe only people in their own denomination are saved? I know little of them, but have never previously heard that view

No. Presbyterians don't believe they are the only denom going to heaven. But I can understand the tone the Presbys have can sound like that. Unlike Goodbook, I'm reformed(Calvinistic) leaning. I've never been fond of the reformed/Calvinistic churches because it seems they are too focused on teaching their theology. But there are reformed pastors within Baptist circles. They don't have to thump their Calvinism every week. That isn't a way to make disciples.

 

[royal priest]

I agree with you is wrong and murder. My own point to this was I dont know what to call myself, pro choice or pro life. I am pro life but I do not believe in telling others what to do with their life.

Murder is the grossest form of violation against the 6th commandment. Satan is condemned as being a murderer from the beginning. If you profess to be a Christian, then your support of murder could cause people to think that murder is acceptable to God

 

[Goodbook]

Well, i think that, the way doctrines of one man are introduced into church is not according to the bible, we go to the source, Pauls letters which are scripture instead of someone eleses opinion of them.

Even Paul himself admonished everyone for saying 'i am of paul' or 'i am of apollo' so nor should we say 'i am of calvin' but only ' i am of jesus'

Cos ppl can be wrong, and even Paul was humble enough to admit as he was a former Pharisee but Jesus always tells the truth. We should be looking and focusing more on Jesus words than ideas about whether we are elect or not.

Notice the disciples would argue who is greatest in the Kingdom. I think Jesus rolled his eyes at their arguing. He chose them, but Paul wasnt even chosen till AFTER jesus was resurrected. The first shall be last and the last shall be first...

 

[Goodbook]

Presys seem more closer to methodists than baptists its because of the whole believers baptism that divides them as presy dont accept we have free will thing. And getting baptised is an act if obedience and free will profession of faith on the believers part, we dont become christians right from birth, we must be born again.

I know some union churches consisted of presys plus methodists but they split apart again because of differences, this happened in my local 'parish'. Anyway i suppose its different strokes for different folks, even though Jesus doesnt like to see his flocks all divided, sometimes its best to be grouped according to likeminded christians.

 

[Goodbook]

I mean even John the baptist was surprised that jesus chose to be water baptised like he was sinless and didnt have to, but he was obeying his Father, who opened heaven for him on the day he was baptised in the Jordan river.

 

[Goodbook]

Jesus got baptised at aged 30' he wasnt an infant. Btw.