Why i am a baptist

[Goodbook]

this is the title of the link given in baptist statement of faith pinned notice

http://www.angelfire.com/la/jlush/baptist.html

So I thought it might help some people and we can discuss why we are baptists.
I was thinking of leaving this forum because some of the mods seem to think I dont belong here. But I agree with everything on this website link and was wondering what the issue is?

If you notice, one of the headings talks about individual soul liberty.
I dont want to start a debate, but I noticed some posters do not seem to believe this, and yet seem to teach the opposite on a baptist forum. But it is one of our distinctions.

So that is one of the reasons I am baptist, because God gave me this freedom to decide. Even though he loved me while I was still a sinner, in no way was I ever forced to believe. And I think thats the great thing about God.

Plus all the other reasons, praise the Lord. 10,000 reasons.
Grace and peace to you.

 

[Saricharity]

Are you talking about having the free will to choose to follow Christ?

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

this is the title of the link given in baptist statement of faith pinned notice

http://www.angelfire.com/la/jlush/baptist.html

So I thought it might help some people and we can discuss why we are baptists.
I was thinking of leaving this forum because some of the mods seem to think I dont belong here. But I agree with everything on this website link and was wondering what the issue is?

If you notice, one of the headings talks about individual soul liberty.
I dont want to start a debate, but I noticed some posters do not seem to believe this, and yet seem to teach the opposite on a baptist forum. But it is one of our distinctions.

So that is one of the reasons I am baptist, because God gave me this freedom to decide. Even though he loved me while I was still a sinner, in no way was I ever forced to believe. And I think thats the great thing about God.

Plus all the other reasons, praise the Lord. 10,000 reasons.
Grace and peace to you.

Surely we have free will! But we are also predestined to be Christians.

I know, these are two difficult things to reconcile. My belief is that five-point Calvinism reconciles them adequately. We, Christians, are primarily chosen by God to be Christians, since the Bible says we have been elected; the first few verses of Ephesians 1, especially verses 4, 5 and 11, talk about this very interestingly. This means that all Christians are bound to become Christians at some point, because God wants it to happen. Why God wanted me to become a Christian and not 99% of the world, I do not know; his will is too mysterious for me to probe. However, I can know that this is true.

Regarding free will, we do have free will, since God bids us come to him to follow him (Deuteronomy 30:19). However, we can only truly follow him when he ‘makes us alive in Christ’ (Ephesians 2:5). Before that, we are dead in our sin (Ephesians 2:1), and unable to choose to follow God — we have free will, but free will does not allow us to do something that is beyond our nature, such as accepting Christ. Afterwards, we become free to do good or evil, although, of course, God is still sovereign and controls everything, namely our salvation.

Reconciling predestination with free will is a complicated issue, and the Bible is not clear about it, but it can be done. Ultimately, though, we will only entirely understand it when we get to Heaven, when our minds are changed beyond our so finite and limited comprehension.

 

[Saricharity]

PB,

I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your knowledge. Your parents must be so proud of you.

 

[98cwitr]

Surely we have free will! But we are also predestined to be Christians.

I know, these are two difficult things to reconcile. My belief is that five-point Calvinism reconciles them adequately. We, Christians, are primarily chosen by God to be Christians, since the Bible says we have been elected; the first few verses of Ephesians 1, especially verses 4, 5 and 11, talk about this very interestingly. This means that all Christians are bound to become Christians at some point, because God wants it to happen. Why God wanted me to become a Christian and not 99% of the world, I do not know; his will is too mysterious for me to probe. However, I can know that this is true.

Regarding free will, we do have free will, since God bids us come to him to follow him (Deuteronomy 30:19). However, we can only truly follow him when he ‘makes us alive in Christ’ (Ephesians 2:5). Before that, we are dead in our sin (Ephesians 2:1), and unable to choose to follow God — we have free will, but free will does not allow us to do something that is beyond our nature, such as accepting Christ. Afterwards, we become free to do good or evil, although, of course, God is still sovereign and controls everything, namely our salvation.

Reconciling predestination with free will is a complicated issue, and the Bible is not clear about it, but it can be done. Ultimately, though, we will only entirely understand it when we get to Heaven, when our minds are changed beyond our so finite and limited comprehension.

Then why do we coin the phrase "free will" when it's is blatantly obvious that it is quite limited?

 

[Goodbook]

I think it just means we do have choices and are free to make those choices on who to follow.
Other things we dont get a choice eg we cant choose where we were born or who we were born to or the people that come into our lives.

So, i dont think free will contradicts Gods plan. And I think he honors our choices, that he also...created us with minds of our own.

I dont go round arrogantly saying im glad im a christian and born female over that sinning tax collector over there ...lol. But I actually know some professed christians who do this and that to me is very sad...and unbiblical. It has to do with some peoples theology that they learned not from reading the bible but someone elses interpretation of it.

 

[Goodbook]

Every day we do make choices on what we will do or wont do. So I can definitely say that I do have a will and I do know Gods will is that I follow him. Sometimes my will doesnt always match up with his will! Thats when we have a chat or prayer time lol.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

PB,

I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your knowledge. Your parents must be so proud of you.

Aw! Thanks! You're so nice! But it's really no big deal. It's just that, some four or five months ago, I was really interested in knowing more about this issue of predestination vs free will, and Calvinism vs Arminianism. So I thought about it, I looked it up (GotQuestions was a particularly useful resource — gotquestions.org), and I reached a conclusion. That was it! I like to get to know more about these things related with the Bible.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Then why do we coin the phrase "free will" when it's is blatantly obvious that it is quite limited?

I beg your pardon: could you please clarify? What exactly is your point?

 

[High Fidelity]

There's a distinction; Baptists are Baptists -- not all are reformed. Predestination is a doctrine of Calvinism and not all Baptists adhere to that.

I'd imagine a good amount of Baptists happen to be reformed in their theology as well, but that's still ultimately independent of their denominational beliefs.

I'm a Baptist because I believe in credobaptism as being obedient to God's Word. I am also a Baptist because I believe in the Priesthood of the Believer -- that is, we're to go to God alone; not through any man or Church. Lord's Supper being symbolic, etc.

 

[Goodbook]

Priesthood of the believer is an important one for me as well.

In other churches I find that what is known as the clergy or ordained or the non-laity seem to be a bit apart from the rest. In baptists churches, those in these roles do not dress any differently from those who aren't appointed. Eg, our pastor does not wear like a dog collar or robe or anything when he's in the pulpit.

We all have a responsibility toward God, and not to make anyone in the position of intermediary, although we gather together to celebrate and praise and worship..we also do this when we are apart and at home and not in church services.

 

[mikedsjr]

From what I understand, the purpose of the robe or collar is to know their role is to speak for God. Whether I'm right or wrong I do not know. The priesthood of believer implies I do not have to go to the pastor to forgive sins. I can go to God directly. I am not a pastor. Nobody will ever call me to preach God's word. I might die of heart palpitations I'm so afraid to speak in public. I hear pastors and lay teacher in baptist churches speaking all the time about inviting people to church to hear God's word. That is right. The preacher is called to proclaim God's word.

 

[OzSpen]

There's a distinction; Baptists are Baptists -- not all are reformed. Predestination is a doctrine of Calvinism and not all Baptists adhere to that.

Patrick,

I suggest that you become better informed about predestination because the doctrine of predestination also is a teaching of Arminianism. I'm currently reading the first volume of The Writings of James Arminius 1977. Tr by J Nichols & W R Bagnall. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House. This is not light bedtime reading. It takes some intense concentration.

In this volume, James Arminius has a chapter, 'On Predestination' (pp. 211-251). So he takes 40 pages to discuss predestination - an Arminian view of predestination. To his dying day, James (Jacobus) Arminius was a Dutch Reformed minister, so his position on predestination was that of a Reformed or Classical Arminian. Here is Arminius's article 'On Predestination' (online).

Here Arminius told us which kind of doctrine of predestination he rejected and which he accepted. So, it is false to say that predestination is a doctrine of Calvinism. It is a doctrine of both Calvinism and Arminianism, but their emphases are quite different.

May you benefit from this teaching.

Oz

 

[High Fidelity]

It is a doctrine of both Calvinism and Arminianism, but their emphases are quite different.

That makes sense. I knew the distinction was minor but I never really considered the Arminian position to be predestination.

Thanks

 

[Goodbook]

I think i reconciled the two apparently contadictory views in my mind a while ago so it doesnt bother me anymore.

I think the danger with some of those doctrines is they can go to extremes which leads to laziness in evangelism, arrogance in thinking we as christians were elected first before anyone else, or on the other hand thinking puffing ourselves up thinking we chose to be christians when God has the upperhand and woos us first.

After all that is reconciled you just go on with being christian in your daily life so theres no need to argue...if you are saved and working out your salvation then thats all that matters. As long as you have that assurance from the Lord you have no right to put down anyone and question did God pick one over the other and why? The holy spirit blows where He wills, like the wind.

 

[lilmatchgirl]

I'm a baptist because Jesus said John the Baptist was the greatest man who ever lived. such a bad joke, lol.

 

[Goodbook]

Yea its funny he wasnt called John the presbyterian.

Sorry, couldnt resist.

 

[lilmatchgirl]

But Jesus was a Nazarene, sooooo....

 

[Goodbook]

Ok the Nazarene church got the best name. But they dont have one near me. Well its a bit of a drive.

 

[Goodbook]

Bump.
I just thought well, the calvinst forum is that a way...we baptists here, so just sayin'.
They even have their own part under the presy section titled 'debate with a calvinist' cos they love debating.

I dont, not cos its a non issue but simply cos the Bible tells us to avoid foolish arguments.