Why hasn't Jesus come back yet?

[Grumpy Old Man]

During the time I was a Christian, I heard several reasons for Jesus tarrying.

1. Paul mentions somewhere about the time of the Gentiles needing to be fulfilled (in Romans I think).
2. Jesus said the Gospel must be preached all over the world.
3. The church must be unified.
4. Some stuff about Israel reforming as a nation and being attacked by everyone.

Regarding the first point, hasn't there been enough time for the Gentiles? Points 1 & 4 are usually related and Christians ascribe Jesus' little parable about the fig tree to indicate Israel. But seeing as Israel is now quite well established it's odd that Jesus hasn't returned by now.

Regarding point 2, Christianity expanded rapidly during its early years, and in the Middle Ages almost everyone was a Catholic. So why didn't Jesus come back then?

Most Christians I knew at church, and heard on TV, believed the church would one day be united before the rapture (something to do with something Paul said in Ephesians I think). However, the Church was united, for a long time, under Catholicism. Why did Jesus not come back them?

As for point 4, Jesus' parable about the fig tree does not really point to Israel. There are bits of scripture in the OT that suggest the Jews will one day return to their land, but that was speaking about the return from exile. As a matter of fact, Jews have had communities in other nations for over 2000 years, so the "prophecy" of all Jews needing to be returned to Israel before the second coming seems invalid. So again, why hasn't Jesus returned yet? What's he waiting for?

 

[Theofane]

Have your reasons changed now that you are an agnostic?

I notice you have changed your icon.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Have your reasons changed now that you are an agnostic?

I notice you have changed your icon.

I changed it because I felt it was more honest with where I'm at right now. Agnosticism essentially means we don't, or cannot know, whether there is a God. I don't think I'm ready yet to fully discount the possibility of a personal God.

 

[lucaspa]

Basically, no one knows. No one knew then, either. The problem arose because Jesus stated that the end of the world would come before the people hearing him had died "before this generation shall pass away". Paul initially believed that.

Well, the disciples and Paul died and no return of Jesus. This was one of the first (if not the first) crisis of faith for Christianity. People put forth several possible reasons for the failure. We would call them ad hoc hypotheses in science. As you noted, there seems to be flaws with all of them. However, the evidence they had of Jesus' divinity and the essential truth of the gospel was (and is) such that Christians are willing to look at this as a puzzle, but not a falsification. An analogy in science today would be ignorance about the evolutionary history of bats. It's a puzzle, but no one is thinking we should abandon evolution because of it. Someday the puzzle will be solved (we hope). The same applies here: someday the puzzle of Jesus' statement and his failure to return will be solved (we hope).

 

[lucaspa]

Agnosticism essentially means we don't, or cannot know, whether there is a God. I don't think I'm ready yet to fully discount the possibility of a personal God.

Huxley originally formed "agnostic" to mean "did not know". He never spoke for the future. Some people since then have tried to add "cannot know". I think that is foolish. It's very much a statement of blind faith to try to state what we cannot know for all time.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

Simple enough. Because He hasn't decided to.

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Huxley originally formed "agnostic" to mean "did not know". He never spoke for the future. Some people since then have tried to add "cannot know". I think that is foolish. It's very much a statement of blind faith to try to state what we cannot know for all time.

As far as I know, the usual preference these days is for "cannot know", but I personally use it in Huxley's sense. Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lucaspa]

As far as I know, the usual preference these days is for "cannot know", but I personally use it in Huxley's sense. Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "cannot know" is in several definitions, but there is no way of guaging how many agnostics use it in that sense.


You need to watch Wikipedia. For instance:
" In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify the belief that deities either do or do not exist. "

They have reversed the "strict" and "popular" sense.

 

[Nails74]

So again, why hasn't Jesus returned yet? What's he waiting for?

Not for us to question...

First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires, saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.” They willfully ignore this: Long ago the heavens and the earth were brought about from water and through water by the word of God. Through these waters the world of that time perished when it was flooded. But by the same word, the present heavens and earth are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. Dear friends, don’t let this one thing escape you: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. [2 Peter 3:3-9]

 

[Publius]

However, the Church was united, for a long time, under Catholicism.

Not sure where you got that idea, but the Church was hardly united.

Waldensians, Hussites, Lollards, etc, were all pre-Reformation Christian groups who were at odds with the Catholic Church.

There were also those called "Berenger Baptists" who would have taken great offense to you lumping them in with the Catholic Church.

 

[lucaspa]

Regarding point 2, Christianity expanded rapidly during its early years, and in the Middle Ages almost everyone was a Catholic. So why didn't Jesus come back then?

Almost everyone in Western Europe was Roman Catholic. However, remember the Great Schism had happened before then and the OCC had at least as many member as the RCC.

What's more, there were still groups of "heretic" Christians, mostly in the Middle East. The Ebionites were in Ethiopia, Coptics and others in the Middle East.

So, at no time has Christianity ever been unified. Even as Paul preached, his letters are full of references to other teachers that differ from what Paul teaches! So already you have an ununited church. Not to mention the disunity of Paul and the disciples!

 

[athenken]

What are you considering "united"? Just Christians, or are you also including Jews? Either way there has never been any unity in the church since the time of Paul's missionary journeys, as others have pointed out here.

Also, since one of the other requirements is that everyone has had the chance to hear the gospel. Even though there are missionaries all over the world, we are not anywhere close to this being a reality, yet.

 

[bling]

I cannot interprete scripture in such a way that would keep Christ from coming today. We really do not know why Jesus has not come yet.

 

[razeontherock]

But seeing as Israel is now quite well established it's odd that Jesus hasn't returned by now.

Disagreed.

Regarding point 2, Christianity expanded rapidly during its early years, and in the Middle Ages almost everyone was a Catholic. So why didn't Jesus come back then?

Umm, Asia?

However, the Church was united, for a long time, under Catholicism. Why did Jesus not come back them?

You're kidding, right? Rome brought with it the greatest period of strife the Church has ever known. And that reign of terror can be compared to the great tribulation - to the day.

So again, why hasn't Jesus returned yet? What's he waiting for?

He returned on the Day of Pentecost, ushering in the millenium reign.

 

[athenken]

He returned on the Day of Pentecost, ushering in the millenium reign.

Um...excuse me? Where is your proof of this?

 

[Faulty]

1. Paul mentions somewhere about the time of the Gentiles needing to be fulfilled (in Romans I think).
2. Jesus said the Gospel must be preached all over the world.
3. The church must be unified.
4. Some stuff about Israel reforming as a nation and being attacked by everyone.

Regarding the first point, hasn't there been enough time for the Gentiles? Points 1 & 4 are usually related and Christians ascribe Jesus' little parable about the fig tree to indicate Israel. But seeing as Israel is now quite well established it's odd that Jesus hasn't returned by now.

If the full number of gentiles had come in already, the the church age would have been over, but that's not the 2nd coming.

Regarding point 2, Christianity expanded rapidly during its early years, and in the Middle Ages almost everyone was a Catholic. So why didn't Jesus come back then?

This point isn't actually fulfilled until the Tribulation when the angel proclaims the gospel to the whole world (Revelation). It's still a future event, and also another reason why He's hasn't returned.

Most Christians I knew at church, and heard on TV, believed the church would one day be united before the rapture (something to do with something Paul said in Ephesians I think). However, the Church was united, for a long time, under Catholicism. Why did Jesus not come back them?

This isn't a requirement at all. Jesus even asked if He would even be able to find the true faith on the Earth when He returns, implying it would be very rare. Ecumenism distorts the gospel and sends people to hell.

Besides, Roman Catholicism is not Christianity, as in 'salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone', so it wouldn't count anyway. That form of salvation was rejected completely by the Catholic Church in the Council of Trent (session 7, canons 4, 5, 7, etc...)

As for point 4, Jesus' parable about the fig tree does not really point to Israel. There are bits of scripture in the OT that suggest the Jews will one day return to their land, but that was speaking about the return from exile. As a matter of fact, Jews have had communities in other nations for over 2000 years, so the "prophecy" of all Jews needing to be returned to Israel before the second coming seems invalid. So again, why hasn't Jesus returned yet? What's he waiting for?

I don't know where you get its 'invalid' from, but yes, a reformation of the Jewish nation was necessary, but Jesus never said how many days after that it would take place, only that some of the people who say it happen wouldn't be dead yet when He does come back. So, unless you can show that everyone who was alive in 1948 is now dead, this this one is still ongoing. They also need a rebuilt Temple at some point, so keep an eye out for that, and everythig is basically ready for that, including the alter (Work Begins on Holy Temple Altar - A7 Exclusive Features - News - Israel National News).

 

[ViaCrucis]

Almost everyone in Western Europe was Roman Catholic. However, remember the Great Schism had happened before then and the OCC had at least as many member as the RCC.

What's more, there were still groups of "heretic" Christians, mostly in the Middle East. The Ebionites were in Ethiopia, Coptics and others in the Middle East.

So, at no time has Christianity ever been unified. Even as Paul preached, his letters are full of references to other teachers that differ from what Paul teaches! So already you have an ununited church. Not to mention the disunity of Paul and the disciples!

Just a point of order, but the Ethiopian Church is in the same communion of churches as the Coptic Church, they're both Oriental Orthodox. That communion of churches which was cut off from the rest of the Church due to the Monophysite Controversy in the 5th century.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[drich0150]

So again, why hasn't Jesus returned yet? What's he waiting for?

In revelations what triggers His return?

(The cup of man's iniquity over flowed.)
The the opposite must be true. Man's cup of iniquity has not yet over flowed.

In other words God wants the maximum number of of people to enter Heaven, and will wait until His quota has been filled.

Another way of looking at it was why was God willing to spare the whole cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of 10 righteous people?

 

[GrayAngel]

There are a few things that are supposed to happen beforehand. This is my understanding of the events:

The world will be united under one ruler. This is the anti-Christ.

There will be a rebellion/Apostacy, or an abandonment of truth. I currently see strong signs of this happening, as the churches are beginning to modify their theology so they can be politically correct, accepting things as good that have long been considered evil. The anti-Christ is supposed to make things worse.

The anti-Christ will restore Israel's ownership of the temple, which is currently under Islamic control. (At least I think it was the temple.)

When God decides it is time, every saved Christian will be forcibly removed from the Earth. If you're in the Pre-Tribulation camp, then this Rapture should happen--unpredictably--before God's wrath pours out on the world. But there are some who believe that Tribulation will come first. The time of Tribulation is supposed to last seven years. After that, it's the end.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Basically, no one knows. No one knew then, either. The problem arose because Jesus stated that the end of the world would come before the people hearing him had died "before this generation shall pass away". Paul initially believed that.

This is what I concluded. Before I left Christianity altogether I was looking into Preterism and it seemed pretty sound to me at that time. I had given up on the Dispensational pre-trib rapture view. It's basically been 2000 years of "any day now".