Why don't Christians stone people anymore?

ChristianT

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Because we are not bound to the OT, and we are set free from our sins. Instead of stoning, we confess our sins to G*d, repent (change our ways), and then continue living with G*d as our guide and judge. When we see and hear others stumble, we are to share with them the gospel (if they don't know it yet), and let them know that they don't have to live trapped in and enslaved by their sin. They can be free.
 
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whitetiger1

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I'd honestly like to know why Christians seem to be disobeying God by not stoning to death adulterers, people who work on the sabbath kids who curse their parents etc.
Because they do it themselves now? :D (Get stoned)
 
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boneo

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Because we are not bound to the OT, and we are set free from our sins. Instead of stoning, we confess our sins to G*d, repent (change our ways), and then continue living with G*d as our guide and judge. When we see and hear others stumble, we are to share with them the gospel (if they don't know it yet), and let them know that they don't have to live trapped in and enslaved by their sin. They can be free.


But Jesus seems to endorse the enirety of the Old Testament law:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. - Mathew 5:18-19

It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?
 
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ChristianT

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But Jesus seems to endorse the enirety of the Old Testament law:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. - Mathew 5:18-19

It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?
sort of.

following Torah / OT / commandments / law does not "get you into heaven," alone. Such things must be done (as a Christian) out of love for G*d, our Father, and Savior. Works do not get us into heaven, as following law is works. As true Christians, followers of Christ, we do what Jesus commissioned us to do, make disciples and live under the grace we have been given in the New Testament, the new covenant is the one we live under. The Old Covenant is the friendship between G*d and Abraham. The "NC" is the "bridge" made between human err and G*d's perfect standard. Through the confession and repentance, we may follow the law more effectively and out of reverence for G*d. Plus, the commands that call for death, "must be put to death," I don't think He was talking to us. I think He was telling them that what was mentioned was a sin. As he promised death (b/c of sin) to Adam and Eve, He calls for death (sheds light on sin) on what was mentioned. As "Heidiii" mentioned, John 8:1-11 is a good reason why we don't stone others. We are all with sin; we all sin. And Jesus didn't stone the woman for adultery, so a Christ follower wouldn't. He came to save, not to judge. And so we are not to condemn either, but teach as many as we can and make them disciples of Christ so that they won't "surely die"(Genesis 2:17) for their sins.
 
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drich0150

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But Jesus seems to endorse the enirety of the Old Testament law:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. - Mathew 5:18-19

It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?

Indeed you are wrong here as John 8 records:
1 But Jesus went to (A)the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and (B)He sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in the Law (C)Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 They were saying this, (D)testing Him, (E)so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, (F)He straightened up, and said to them, “(G)He who is without sin among you, let him be the (H)first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 (I)Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, [a]Lord.” And Jesus said, “(J)I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on (K)sin no more.”]
 
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razeontherock

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It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Every speck of OT law, has it's fulfillment in Christ; i.e., a Spiritual application. Not until you have the Lord Himself open your eyes to this will it become your reality, but it is possible to gain head knowledge of these things, which He seems able to use. Just be sure not to confuse head knowledge with what matters; first-hand experience!
 
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ebia

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boneo said:
I'd honestly like to know why Christians seem to be disobeying God by not stoning to death adulterers, people who work on the sabbath kids who curse their parents etc.
There isn't much evidence that the "he/she must be put to death" stuff was ever taken very literally. It is scripture's way of saying "this is very, very bad for the community - do not do it".
 
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Publius

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boneo said:
It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?

"15...we know that a person is not justifieda by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" - Galatians 2:15-21
 
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Faulty

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But Jesus seems to endorse the enirety of the Old Testament law:

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven, but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. - Mathew 5:18-19

It seems to me that true Christians must obey the OT law in order to get into heaven, am I wrong?


He says here, "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." The Pharisees were all about keeping the Law in every way possible, externally-speaking.

No one could look at them and point a finger of blame based on what they see concerning the keeping of the Law. Paul, who was once a Pharisee himself, said of that life he lived blameless under the Law (Philippians 3:6), but such a life was useless rubbish because the rightousness that came by obeying the Law was a righteousness of his own, and not the righteousness of Christ. His way was to work himself into favor with God, rather than faith in the work of Jesus, throuogh whose righteousness alone, we obtain eternal life.

In context, Paul describes it as such,
"a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead."
Phil 3:5-11
The requirements of the Law are fulfilled for those who are saved by faith in Jesus...
By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:3-4
 
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hedrick

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I'd honestly like to know why Christians seem to be disobeying God by not stoning to death adulterers, people who work on the sabbath kids who curse their parents etc.

There are several reasons:

1) By Jesus' time, Jews didn't take those punishments literally. There were elaborate protections to avoid passing a death sentence.

2) In 5:17, Jesus refers to the Law and the Prophets. This is his conventional term for the OT. I believe when he talked about fulfilling the OT he meant that he was the one that the OT as a whole pointed to. The OT is the story of God's covenant with Israel. It ended not being fully carried out, waiting for the Messiah. Jesus was that Messiah.

3) Read the rest of Mat 5, and in fact the rest of Mat. to see how Jesus implemented the commandments. The rest of Mat 5 is his comment on most of the 10 commandments. Note that he went for the intent but not the letter.

4) The OT rules were given to the Jewish people as part of their covenant. The rules there were of many types: ethical, health, regulations for Temple worship, legal procedures. Jews in the 1st Cent, as now, didn't think all of those applied to non-Jews. There were a separate set of rules, usually derived from the Noah story, for non-Jews. Acts 15 looks at the question of what rules non-Jewish Christians should obey, and comes up with a set similar to those Noachic rules. Specific punishments would be considered part of legal procedures.
 
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SolomonVII

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I'd honestly like to know why Christians seem to be disobeying God by not stoning to death adulterers, people who work on the sabbath kids who curse their parents etc.

Christians never did stone people, so the question of the OP is implying something that never happened.

Jesus acknowledged the law that held stoning to be valid, but he also noted that the stoning had to be initiated by a witness without sin. As there were none without sin aside from himself, not even until now, mercy becomes the better course here.
 
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brinny

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I'd honestly like to know why Christians seem to be disobeying God by not stoning to death adulterers, people who work on the sabbath kids who curse their parents etc.

Christians never did stone people.
 
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boneo

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Christians never did stone people.


Thankyou people for your responses. I do however have concerns about the many (by todays standards) completely innocent people who were tortured and killed in the name of Christianity. These killings seem to have been justified somehow by some of the 'greatest' theologians of the time. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Here's a link to some (the first site to come up when I Googled it)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...0ujSAQ&usg=AFQjCNFYWG2vvSJopmzS_sASRaysOKS91Q
 
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Publius

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Thankyou people for your responses. I do however have concerns about the many (by todays standards) completely innocent people who were tortured and killed in the name of Christianity. These killings seem to have been justified somehow by some of the 'greatest' theologians of the time. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Here's a link to some (the first site to come up when I Googled it)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=thomas%20aquinas%20burn&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkhumphrys.com%2Fchristianity.killings.html&ei=8x8KT6jaIMa08QOB0ujSAQ&usg=AFQjCNFYWG2vvSJopmzS_sASRaysOKS91Q

I clicked on the link. I'm not sure it denotes very much credibility that his first piece of "evidence" is a clip from a fictional comedy film.

I also noticed that virtually every one of his examples was from the Catholic Church. It will probably help you quite a bit as you post here to realize that the vast majority here are not Catholics and have serious disagreements with most things in Catholicism.

If his argument is that the Catholic Church is corrupt, we already know that. That's the reason there was a Reformation in the first place.
 
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Incariol

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Thankyou people for your responses. I do however have concerns about the many (by todays standards) completely innocent people who were tortured and killed in the name of Christianity. These killings seem to have been justified somehow by some of the 'greatest' theologians of the time. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Here's a link to some (the first site to come up when I Googled it)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...0ujSAQ&usg=AFQjCNFYWG2vvSJopmzS_sASRaysOKS91Q

Were you expecting those theologians to look into the future and apply modern standards instead of their own?
 
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boneo

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I clicked on the link. I'm not sure it denotes very much credibility that his first piece of "evidence" is a clip from a fictional comedy film.

Probably not the best link, just the first one that came up.

I also noticed that virtually every one of his examples was from the Catholic Church. It will probably help you quite a bit as you post here to realize that the vast majority here are not Catholics and have serious disagreements with most things in Catholicism.

If his argument is that the Catholic Church is corrupt, we already know that. That's the reason there was a Reformation in the first place.

Ok, but the Catholic Church has around a billion members, are they all misinterpreting the Bible?
Sorry, I have a few questions and should maybe start new threads for them.
 
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boneo

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Were you expecting those theologians to look into the future and apply modern standards instead of their own?

No, I would have expected them to interpret the Bible the same way that todays theologians do.
 
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