Why doesnt creationism need any data?

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Hespera

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Data has been presented to support it. Not good data that passes scrutiny, but data nonetheless.

This data is going to be enough for people inclined to believe creationism in the first place.

OR:

Psychology. That's why. Learn some.

Interesting concept, that false "data' is considered good enough.

If you are presenting that you know enough psychology to explain
it, then please go ahead.
 
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Hespera

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I think you mean unfounded beliefs, (I have never been to Australia but I believe it's there and I could go see it if I wanted) unfounded beliefs do not require data or any rational reasons in order to be believed providing the people have been indoctrinated into or need to believe in them, creationists invariably believe for both reasons, why else would anyone be a creationist?

In order for creationism to continue indoctrination must continue.

Well no i dont think I mean that sort of belief, or i dont think belief in Australia is an example of an unfounded one.

There is after all a good deal of data, and no contrary evidence.

But then i guess im quibbling, and basically agree.

or maybe a creationist would like to say why zero data is good enough.

it does seem like if it were true there outta be lots of data...
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Could you please specify which creation myth you're speaking of? I'm guessing you mean one of the many Judeo-Christian versions.
Interesting.
There are Jewish-Christians and non-Jewish Christians.
From what I know, there are a lot more of the latter than the former, and remembering also that my bro Saul/Paul was both a Hebrew and a Jew :)

Young) Philippians 3:5 circumcision on the eighth day! of the race of Israel! of the tribe of Benjamin! a Hebrew of Hebrews! according to law a Pharisee!

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Young) Acts 11:26 and having found him, he brought him to Antioch,
and it came to pass that they a whole year did assemble together in the assembly, and taught a great multitude, the disciples also were divinely called first in Antioch Christians.

Acts 26:28 The yet Agrippa toward the Paul said "In few me thou are persuading a Christian to become"?

1 Peter 4:16 If yet as a Christian let him not be being ashamed! yet let him be glorifying the God in the name/respect, this.
 
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hasone

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Interesting concept, that false "data' is considered good enough.

If you are presenting that you know enough psychology to explain
it, then please go ahead.

Have you heard of the confirmation bias? That's one mechanism that would perpetuate creationist beliefs in a person. It's basically what I said in the first part.

There are various mechanisms in the realm of social psychology that would also perpetuate a belief in creationism despite a lack of good hard data.

The psychology of false belief is well studied and, I believe, an active field of research. Or a subfield of other fields of research, like marketing. I highly suggest doing some reading, because it's fascinating stuff. many textbooks in higher-than-introductory psychology (such as, again, social psychology), would be a great start.
 
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juvenissun

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None has ever been presented to support it.

im curious why the believers dont need any.

They'd surely need some before investing in a get rich scheme.

Or if they are told their kid committed a crime.

Or that the roof needs replacing.

Why not for creationism?

So people can be convinced that science does not work.
 
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Hespera

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Have you heard of the confirmation bias? That's one mechanism that would perpetuate creationist beliefs in a person. It's basically what I said in the first part.

There are various mechanisms in the realm of social psychology that would also perpetuate a belief in creationism despite a lack of good hard data.

The psychology of false belief is well studied and, I believe, an active field of research. Or a subfield of other fields of research, like marketing. I highly suggest doing some reading, because it's fascinating stuff. many textbooks in higher-than-introductory psychology (such as, again, social psychology), would be a great start.

Confirmation bias? We do see a lot of it. My fav. example from personal experience was this girl, she picked up a leaf and said something like "oh look god made it with three parts, to represent the trinity".

You are right, I should study the psychology of false beliefs,, it does sound very interesting.
I sure have the time on my hands these days.

Id also be interested to read something about the psychology involved when a person is incapable of ever admitting they are wrong about anything. That seems to be a near to invariable aspect of creationism.

Any specific ideas on what would be a good read on that?
 
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Delphiki

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Interesting.
There are Jewish-Christians and non-Jewish Christians....

I assure you your effort to provide us with this over-abundance of information hasn't gone unnoticed, however, when one uses the term "Judeo-Christian" it typically means it historically relates to both Judaism and Christianity. Since the Christian Old Testament is essentially a re-writing of the Jewish Torah, the creation story is largely the same. Hence, the 6-day creation myth being "Judeo-Christian".

Thank you, anyway. :wave:
 
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hasone

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Confirmation bias? We do see a lot of it. My fav. example from personal experience was this girl, she picked up a leaf and said something like "oh look god made it with three parts, to represent the trinity".

You are right, I should study the psychology of false beliefs,, it does sound very interesting.
I sure have the time on my hands these days.

Id also be interested to read something about the psychology involved when a person is incapable of ever admitting they are wrong about anything. That seems to be a near to invariable aspect of creationism.

Any specific ideas on what would be a good read on that?

Off the top of my head? Sadly, no. I've picked up most of this stuff through texts on other things, like social psychology, developmental psychology, memory, and most especially advertising. The amount of things some advertisers know about you that you don't is scary.

Texts or papers on "belief formation" might get you where you want to go, but I'm not sure. If losing a belief is the opposite process of gaining one, then that would help. My first guess would be that the mechanisms are different.

Wikipedia suggests:

" Bell, V., Halligan, P.W. & Ellis, H.D. (2006) A Cognitive Neuroscience of Belief. In Peter W. Halligan & Mansel Aylward (eds.) The Power of Belief: Psychological Influence on Illness, Disability, and Medicine. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-85010-2

and
Michael Argyle, The Psychology of Religious Behaviour, Belief and Experience, Routledge, 1997,ISBN 978-0-415-12331-0


For bleeding edge knowledge, access to something like the APA database might yield a journal whose topic is belief. There's a bajillion psychological journals, just like there's gazillion scientific ones. Direct access to such places is usually expensive, but almost every university library and many public libraries will have subscribed.
 
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Split Rock

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So people can be convinced that science does not work.

They don't need creationism to be convinced that "science does not work." All they need to do is look around them at all the technology based on science that does not work, and that they don't depend on every day of their life. Preferably while blathering on about how "science does not work," on computers and the internet that also "does not work." :wave: :thumbsup:
 
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Belk

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None has ever been presented to support it.

im curious why the believers dont need any.

They'd surely need some before investing in a get rich scheme.

Or if they are told their kid committed a crime.

Or that the roof needs replacing.

Why not for creationism?

Because they subscribe to traditional logic rather then another type of reasoning.

Traditional Logic
 
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juvenissun

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The pleading, it is special.



If that's its function, then it's failing.

While engineering succeeds all the time, science always fails. If you do not know that, you are either an engineer or are not scientific enough.
 
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juvenissun

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They don't need creationism to be convinced that "science does not work." All they need to do is look around them at all the technology based on science that does not work, and that they don't depend on every day of their life. Preferably while blathering on about how "science does not work," on computers and the internet that also "does not work." :wave: :thumbsup:

Again, you are talking about engineering.

If you know how flawed are the sciences of Boeing airplanes, you won't dare to take any flight. And that is why airplanes still fall from the sky.

Basically, I don't trust any doctor and I don't trust any medicine. I take a medicine not because they are scientifically correct (far far away from it), but because it will effectively stop my immediate problem. I pretend that it will do no other damage to me. Don't believe it? Simply read the list of side effects.
 
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Hespera

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Again, you are talking about engineering.

If you know how flawed are the sciences of Boeing airplanes, you won't dare to take any flight. And that is why airplanes still fall from the sky.

Basically, I don't trust any doctor and I don't trust any medicine. I take a medicine not because they are scientifically correct (far far away from it), but because it will effectively stop my immediate problem. I pretend that it will do no other damage to me. Don't believe it? Simply read the list of side effects.

Whenyou dont have data, attitude will do i guess. i think you have indirectly explained why you dont even care that not one data point supports creationism.
 
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AV1611VET

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None has ever been presented to support it.
That is correct -- and none will, either.
im curious why the believers dont need any.
Because no evidence was generated -- qv please: 1
They'd surely need some before investing in a get rich scheme.
You're the one demanding evidence.

Are you planning an investment, yourself?
Or if they are told their kid committed a crime.
Again, we're not the ones demanding evidence -- you are.
Or that the roof needs replacing.
Again, we're not the ones demanding evidence -- you are.
Why not for creationism?
Because no evidence was generated -- qv please: 1
 
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