Why does God show himself to the believers but not to the skeptics? (Moved)

[Archaeopteryx]

and God has already answered that argument. They have Moses and the prophets, let them listen to them.

part of the problem is that God exists on a different dimension than we do. Also He is not limited by time or space, since He created both of them. For man to see God, God would have to come into the sphere of man's existence.

That's what Jesus did, and still many of the people from His own day could not accept that God could become a man. But He did.

So the proof that you required has already been provided, has been witnessed by thousands of people, and yet God is still not accepted.

So what other reason do you have for not accepting the existence of God?

Why appear before thousands and not millions or billions? Why appear to only one culture and not to all, from East to West?

If Jesus revealed himself to every culture, then how would you know he was just the God of Israel, instead of The God of every type of culture and religion? He is very clear about being the God of Jacob and Abraham. You wouldn't want a case of mistaken identity would you?

He could reveal himself as the God of Israel. Then there would be no ambiguity regarding his identity.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There are atheists or otherwise non theists who have converted to Christianity. They believe God revealed Himself to them in one way or the other. In light of that, I'd say God does reveal Himself to skeptics.

As I keep pointing out, there are also many people who were once Christians but have since become atheists.

 

[talquin]

Millions of Muslims get a vision from Jesus now.

Do these millions of Muslims believe the Christian God to exist?

He does care.

If God does care if we believe he exists, then why does his lack of action indicate otherwise?

The Bible says He wants everyone saved.

Saved from what?

If He didn't care He wouldn't have given His Life. How did He show Himself to most unsaved people in the New Testament? By becoming Man, a Man they could see and they could see the evidence, He did miracles, He raised the dead.

What about all the non-believers now? If he felt compelled to show himself to those people, then why doesn't he feel compelled to show himself to hundreds of millions of people who don't believe the Christian God is real?

 

[talquin]

In what form do you like to see that? You do not see God, how could you know He is omnipotent? How is omnipotent look like?

Enough demonstrations of omnipotence and omniscience such that I knew it wasn't some kind of magic trick.

Examples:
Turning a turtle into a bicycle
Bringing Abraham Lincoln back to life
Sending me back in time to when I was 10 years old
Telling me exactly what I will choose to do tomorrow

I could go on and on, but those are some things an omniscient and omnipotent thing would be able to do.

 

[talquin]

I have no idea what real thing it is you are calling God. Given that you said:

God doesn't empirically 'show' Himself to believers any more than He does to unbelievers (not counting the Prophets of Old, of course).

It is clear that your idea of what God is makes it just as readily apparent & observable to atheists as it is to Christians. But before I ask again what real thing it is you're calling "God", I'll ask if the god you believe in is something that atheists observe to exist?

Observe? Just the use of this word tells me that you're assuming an Evidentialist framework, and as I've 'suggested' to others here on CF, when we're dealing with the supernatural, particularly with a Being that is infinite and eternal in expanse and existence, as well as naturally invisible and usually inaudible, you can't expect to use an empirically based, evidential approach. If you want to understand God, you have the play the epistemological 'game' by His rules, not by those we've invented ourselves and implemented to engage our material universe.

So, what "real thing" am I calling God?: I am calling God that Being and Creator who revealed Himself to Humanity through the Jewish People and in the personage of Jesus Christ. I am not identifying God as some numinous and redemptive experience that appeared in my living room on a dark, foul, and lonely Friday night.

Once again: is the god you believe in is something that atheists observe to exist?

If a being is invisible and inaudible, then how can it's existence be distinguished from its non-existence?

So to you, "God" is the person in the Bible who is called Jesus. How do you know for sure that Jesus was a real person? How can you be sure that the Bible wasn't a work of fiction?

 

[Messy]

Do these millions of Muslims believe the Christian God to exist?

Yes
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.co...ast-after-jesus-appear-in-visions-and-dreams/

If God does care if we believe he exists, then why does his lack of action indicate otherwise?

Saved from what?

What about all the non-believers now? If he felt compelled to show himself to those people, then why doesn't he feel compelled to show himself to hundreds of millions of people who don't believe the Christian God is real?

I think it seems like He doesn't care if you look in the Western World, but I'm believing for a world wide revival with overwhelming evidence and billions saved.

 

[Messy]

Once again: is the god you believe in is something that atheists observe to exist?

If a being is invisible and inaudible, then how can it's existence be distinguished from its non-existence?

So to you, "God" is the person in the Bible who is called Jesus. How do you know for sure that Jesus was a real person? How can you be sure that the Bible wasn't a work of fiction?

By evidence, if someone gets raised from the dead in His Name that proofs that He is risen and the Bible is true.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

By evidence, if someone gets raised from the dead in His Name that proofs that He is risen and the Bible is true.

Ignoring for a moment the poor evidence for resurrection, in what way does someone being resurrected from the dead show that the Bible is true? Resurrection features in many other religious traditions, so why can't they claim that it is evidence for their religious doctrines?

 

[Messy]

Ignoring for a moment the poor evidence for resurrection, in what way does someone being resurrected from the dead show that the Bible is true? Resurrection features in many other religious traditions, so why can't they claim that it is evidence for their religious doctrines?

Oh yes, that's true.

 

[talquin]

Yes
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.co...ast-after-jesus-appear-in-visions-and-dreams/



I think it seems like He doesn't care if you look in the Western World, but I'm believing for a world wide revival with overwhelming evidence and billions saved.

Saved from what?

Even if those hundreds of thousands of Muslims do believe that the Christian God is real, how can you reconcile still another well over hundreds of millions of other people who don't believe the Christian god is real - if the Christian god wants people to believe he exists. Sounds like a mighty stupid god to me. If I wanted people to believe I existed and had the power to do so, I would do what it takes to get them to believe.

 

[talquin]

By evidence, if someone gets raised from the dead in His Name that proofs that He is risen and the Bible is true.

What evidence do you have that the Bible is true?

 

[juvenissun]

Enough demonstrations of omnipotence and omniscience such that I knew it wasn't some kind of magic trick.

Examples:
Turning a turtle into a bicycle
Bringing Abraham Lincoln back to life
Sending me back in time to when I was 10 years old
Telling me exactly what I will choose to do tomorrow

I could go on and on, but those are some things an omniscient and omnipotent thing would be able to do.

Do you need to see the change right in front of your eyes? Do you need to see the one who performs it?

What if these changes happened somewhere else at other time so you do not personally see it? Would you still accept it?

If you do see it, but people at other places did not see it, how would you convince them that what you see indeed happened?

 

[elopez]

As I keep pointing out, there are also many people who were once Christians but have since become atheists.

And your point is? Mine is that the OP is askew as God does show Himself to skeptics, people who do not believe in Him.

 

[98cwitr]

Why does God show himself to the believers but not to the skeptics?

When you ask a Christian how they know their belief is true, they'll often say through personal revelation or that they have directly observed God. However, it's usually the case that they were Christians prior to this occurring. So why would an all-loving God show himself to those who already believe he exists but not show himself to skeptics?

There are only two reconciliations to this that I can think of:
1) God wants for there to be skeptics
2) God doesn't really exist

I'll go with option 1.

8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”

And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

9 He said, “Go and tell this people:

“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

 

[Joshua260]

Ignoring for a moment the poor evidence for resurrection, in what way does someone being resurrected from the dead show that the Bible is true?

Not just someone. It was a specific person who fulfilled the role of the messiah perfectly and proved that he was therefore God. There's plenty of evidence supporting a reasonable belief in the resurrection.

If you wish to discuss it further, would you kindly start your own post? It's against this forum's rules for two nonbelievers to post in the same thread. The goal is for an unbeliever to ask questions and for Christians to answer. Having multiple unbelievers on the same thread usually tends to distract from the goal. Thanks in advance.

 

[klibera]

Ditto for this reader. I could not figure it out. Poster is probably right-He wants skeptics-JC always described that there has to be a good vs evil clause. The skeptics end up surviving, the martyrs, the believers, the sufferers end up dying. Go figure that one. I can't figure it out. It does not demonstrate the omnipotent God deems himself to be. Evil is winning. Are we supposed to really believe in the Apocalypse as told.

 

[talquin]

Do you need to see the change right in front of your eyes? Do you need to see the one who performs it?

What if these changes happened somewhere else at other time so you do not personally see it? Would you still accept it?

If you do see it, but people at other places did not see it, how would you convince them that what you see indeed happened?

I'd have to see it to the extent that it would distinguish itself from a non-existent god. If I read it in a book, it is only evidence of a story being told in a book.

Why do Christians such as yourself so strongly desire for their god to be indistinguishable from a non-existent god?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

And your point is? Mine is that the OP is askew as God does show Himself to skeptics, people who do not believe in Him.

My point is that the mere fact that people believe does not imply that God has or hasn't actually revealed himself to them.

 

[oi_antz]

My point is that the mere fact that people believe does not imply that God has or hasn't actually revealed himself to them.

It does imply it, but whether it proves it is up to whoever is judging.

Please do take your conversation to your own thread, you are going to get a good thread locked. That is what mod's do in this part of the website.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It does imply it, but whether it proves it is up to whoever is judging.

Then what does deconversion imply?

Please do take your conversation to your own thread, you are going to get a good thread locked. That is what mod's do in this part of the website.

I'm not at fault for having this thread moved to a different subforum. I don't see why this should affect my participation in any way.