Why does God not equal the 4th person?

[AdamE]

I understand the Trinity is a mind blowing concept that even most fundamentalist Christian's like myself barely understand, however, one area of discussion that rarely comes up, is if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seperate, yet there is only one God, does that not make God a seperate being himself? Trinity(3 persons)=God(1 being). So is this God(1) another being? For example, in the Bible we read, "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me"? and also "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth." We can see God is talking here as he is one being, hence where the confusion for me comes into play. I will like to reaffirm while I do believe in the Trinity, without fully grasping it, I find this question a challenging and interesting mystery.

Thoughts?

 

[RC1970]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separate (distinct) Personages of the one Being (God).

 

[Albion]

I understand the Trinity is a mind blowing concept that even most fundamentalist Christian's like myself barely understand, however, one area of discussion that rarely comes up, is if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seperate, yet there is only one God, does that not make God a seperate being himself? Trinity(3 persons)=God(1 being).

No. There are three persona to God, is all. Although no analogy will be adequate, think of the shamrock idea where there are three petals that make up one shamrock.

So is this God(1) another being?

No. The three persona (or persons) are it...Him. Try not to think of this word that the Greeks used as meaning what we usually do--separate individuals. It doesn't mean that.

I find this question a challenging and interesting mystery.

It IS a mystery. We believe because of the testimony of Scripture, but we can't fully comprehend it. On the other hand, why would we think we COULD fully understand the nature of God while in this life? We can't get our minds around eternity or omnipotence and have never seen or experienced either, so God is necessarily going to be understood by us only in basic terms, although this is why, in part, the Son became a Man, so that we'd at least have a way of relating.

 

[brinny]

I understand the Trinity is a mind blowing concept that even most fundamentalist Christian's like myself barely understand, however, one area of discussion that rarely comes up, is if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seperate, yet there is only one God, does that not make God a seperate being himself? Trinity(3 persons)=God(1 being). So is this God(1) another being? For example, in the Bible we read, "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me"? and also "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth." We can see God is talking here as he is one being, hence where the confusion for me comes into play. I will like to reaffirm while I do believe in the Trinity, without fully grasping it, I find this question a challenging and interesting mystery.

Thoughts?

Are you saying that God the Father is not God Almighty, the living and true God, El Elyon, God Most High?

Thank you kindly.

 

[AdamE]

Are you saying that God the Father is not God Almighty, the living and true God, El Elyon, God Most High?

Thank you kindly.

Absolutely not. This is why I know God is not a 4th person, my main point was, that it kind of seems like God is a 4th being, even thought I know this is not true and was rather wanting some clarification on who God is in relation to the trinity as a just one being and not three persons.

 

[Steeno7]

I understand the Trinity is a mind blowing concept that even most fundamentalist Christian's like myself barely understand, however, one area of discussion that rarely comes up, is if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seperate, yet there is only one God, does that not make God a seperate being himself? Trinity(3 persons)=God(1 being). So is this God(1) another being? For example, in the Bible we read, "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me"? and also "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth." We can see God is talking here as he is one being, hence where the confusion for me comes into play. I will like to reaffirm while I do believe in the Trinity, without fully grasping it, I find this question a challenging and interesting mystery.

Thoughts?

They are not separate. Distinct but not separate. The Three together comprise the One true God.

 

[Hank77]

We can see God is talking here as he is one being, hence where the confusion for me comes into play.

No, what we have here in these verses is one voice.

 

[AdamE]

They are not separate. Distinct but not separate. The Three together comprise the One true God.

Well they are separate in relation to not being each other but they do all have the same will and work in unity together.

No, what we have here in these verses is one voice.

Whose voice? They are 3 seperate persons, so if it is one voice, whose is it?

 

[brinny]

brinny said:
Are you saying that God the Father is not God Almighty, the living and true God, El Elyon, God Most High?

Thank you kindly.

Absolutely not. This is why I know God is not a 4th person, my main point was, that it kind of seems like God is a 4th being, even thought I know this is not true and was rather wanting some clarification on who God is in relation to the trinity as a just one being and not three persons.

Then "who" exactly would this "fourth" entity be? And where would this idea of a "fourth" entity come from?

Thank you kindly.

 

[AdamE]

Then "who" exactly would this "fourth" entity be? And where would this idea of a "fourth" entity come from?

Thank you kindly.

This is where the logic stacks, because the Father is fully God I agree, and thus the 4th person idea fails. It's just when we see God talk in the Bible, I get confused, who is talking? After all, saying it is God talking or God is one so there is only one voice, is just a cop out, we are talking about 3 distinct persons making one true God, but key word, they are distinct, hence the term God is talking is very ambiguous. These are the little bits that confuse me about the term God.

 

[brinny]

This is where the logic stacks, because the Father is fully God I agree, and thus the 4th person idea fails. It's just when we see God talk in the Bible, I get confused, who is talking? After all, saying it is God talking or God is one so there is only one voice, is just a cop out, we are talking about 3 distinct persons making one true God, but key word, they are distinct, hence the term God is talking is very ambiguous. These are the little bits that confuse me about the term God.

...just wondering.....how extensively have you read/studied the Bible?

On a side note, there is mention of one that was bound and determined to be "as" God. In other words this one wanted to overthrow God and still attempts to do so to this day. It is written that this one is the father of lies and cunningly deceptive and revels ion confusion.

Is that true?

 

[Steeno7]

Well they are separate in relation to not being each other but they do all have the same will and work in unity together.

Whose voice? They are 3 seperate persons, so if it is one voice, whose is it?

There is no separation within the Godhead. It is Gods voice.

 

[seekingsolace]

This is where the logic stacks, because the Father is fully God I agree, and thus the 4th person idea fails. It's just when we see God talk in the Bible, I get confused, who is talking? After all, saying it is God talking or God is one so there is only one voice, is just a cop out, we are talking about 3 distinct persons making one true God, but key word, they are distinct, hence the term God is talking is very ambiguous. These are the little bits that confuse me about the term God.

If the three are one, then regardless of which person of the Godhead speaks, they all speak in unison from the same body.

 

[AdamE]

...just wondering.....how extensively have you read/studied the Bible?

On a side note, there is mention of one that was bound and determined to be "as" God. In other words this one wanted to overthrow God and still attempts to do so to this day. It is written that this one is the father of lies and cunningly deceptive and revels ion confusion.

Is that true?

I have studied the religion over the last year quite thoroughly, the Bible not so much. In relation to your question, yes it is true, it is Lucifer, who was one of the highest Angels with God until he got jealous and wanted to have all his power.

There is no separation within the Godhead. It is Gods voice.

This relates back to my original post. Gods voice is so hard to picture when we believe in a Trinity.

 

[AdamE]

If the three are one, then regardless of which person of the Godhead speaks, they all speak in unison from the same body.

Forgive me, but the one/ same bode is hard to get around, when viewing the above picture. For if they spoke from the same body, that would be the body of God, which takes me back to, who exactly is God, is it just a title for the Trinity?

 

[seekingsolace]

his relates back to my original post. Gods voice is so hard to picture when we believe in a Trinity.

Trying to think of a way to describe it visually. Imagine a three pronged candlestick, all are lit. All candles stem from one body, they make up a whole. Each has it's purpose: one shines light more to the right, another left, and another centre. No matter which candle you look at, the light is the same essence yet distinct.

 

[seekingsolace]

View attachment 162736

Forgive me, but the one/ same bode is hard to get around, when viewing the above picture. For if they spoke from the same body, that would be the body of God, which takes me back to, who exactly is God, is it just a title for the Trinity?

I can see why that image may confuse you. Words would fail to describe an infinite, unfathomable being. You will find throughout the Bible references to the plurality of the Godhead, yet singular nature of God. From the creation of the world and mankind, to sharing the same divine attributes - we have the Triune Godhead - never more.

Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

2 Corinthians 13:14: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen."

When you get used to the concept you will notice in scriptures references to each person of the Godhead, and hopefully this will make a bit more sense to you.

 

[Steeno7]

This relates back to my original post. Gods voice is so hard to picture when we believe in a Trinity.

Begin with God is One, because God IS One. The Christian belief is actually trinitarian monotheism.

 

[AdamE]

Begin with God is One, because God IS One. The Christian belief is actually trinitarian monotheism.

Absolutely! I believe in the Trinity 110% and that God is one.. This thread is not so much to doubt the Trinity but rather, to understand who God is in relation to the Trinity. For example as just mentioned but a bit more of an idea now, which person of the Godhead is talking at which times, kind of like in a horror movie when there are two killers, and you want to know which killer killed who. Also about prayer, we are told to pray to the Father, but if they are one, can we pray to the Holy Spirit?

 

[seekingsolace]

Absolutely! I believe in the Trinity 110% and that God is one.. This thread is not so much to doubt the Trinity but rather, to understand who God is in relation to the Trinity. For example as just mentioned but a bit more of an idea now, which person of the Godhead is talking at which times, kind of like in a horror movie when there are two killers, and you want to know which killer killed who. Also about prayer, we are told to pray to the Father, but if they are one, can we pray to the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit prays for you. Prayer is normally addressed to the father. Just think of it as three distinct persons of the same body performing different roles.