Why do some men minimise or deny the reality of domestic violence?

Paidiske

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Well, I guess it depends. I do think it is the job of every citizen in a democracy to participate in that democracy for its betterment. I do think it is the job of Christians to work to transform injustice and bring about peace, as a witness to God's kingdom in the world. (And some ad campaigns have been shown to be very effective; the "don't be that guy" campaign was correlated with - if not the direct cause of - a ten per cent drop in sexual assault in Vancouver).

Politics won't save the world, but while we are waiting, it can do an awful lot of good. Not that we should neglect other aspects of mission, but nor should we neglect this.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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The Reformers talked about "civil righteousness" and common grace. We can't make everyone sinless, but we can improve society.

Isn't common grace something that God orchestrates? And, isn't civil righteousness brought about by the state rather than the Christian? By law and enforcement of it?
 
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JacksBratt

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So you don't think we can do anything to form Godly character in our men and boys?
That's just it.... it's not just men and boys. It's everyone. Man or woman, boy or girl, humans can grow up to be abusive. For whatever reason, culture, education, home life, role of father or lack of the role of a father, abusive parent, a narcissistic belief that they are always right... the list goes on.

To limit this to "our men and boys" is sexist as well. We have already seen on this thread that men and women are abused. We have also, I would say unanimously, agreed it is wrong and sinful.

So, let's stop limiting this to a male problem and understand that abuse is a problem, period.

We are to treat each other with kindness. Treat your neighbor as yourself. Any time we don't do this, it is a sin.
Stretch that to abuse and we have even more problems. This is not any more a problem for men than it is for women.

It's just plain wrong. The thing is, it is, many times, learned from the parents and other adult examples as a child grows up and combined with the character of the child and the culture of the home, region and culture.
 
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hedrick

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Isn't common grace something that God orchestrates? And, isn't civil righteousness brought about by the state rather than the Christian? By law and enforcement of it?
Sure, but it's hard to believe that in a vaguely Christian country, individual Christians don't have a duty to promote good behavior as well. The concept of common grace is that God cares about the kind of environment we're surrounded by. He wants to restrain evil, and get at least a secular kind of justice. But he doesn't do it by lightning bolts. We're his agents. And in the US at least, our votes and other ways of expressing ourselves determine what the State does.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Sure, but it's hard to believe that in a vaguely Christian country, individual Christians don't have a duty to promote good behavior as well. The concept of common grace is that God cares about the kind of environment we're surrounded by. He wants to restrain evil, and get at least a secular kind of justice. But he doesn't do it by lightning bolts. We're his agents. And in the US at least, our votes and other ways of expressing ourselves determine what the State does.

I don't disagree with anything you've said above.
 
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Mudinyeri

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The solution lies in socio-economic changes to give women economically sustainable ways out of abusive situations and educating women on the psychological profiles of abusive men so women can avoid them entirely.

Again, are you talking about socio-economic changes on a global scale or about a specific country?

I help support a mission that aids abused women. In my experience, the changes needed aren't economic in nature. There are plenty of jobs that will allow a woman to support her family.

Again, in my experience, the secondary problem with abusive relationships is that the abused individual struggles to extract themselves from the relationship. Often, they won't press charges against their abuser. They cover for the abuser, making excuses for their injuries.
 
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timewerx

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I help support a mission that aids abused women. In my experience, the changes needed aren't economic in nature. There are plenty of jobs that will allow a woman to support her family.

She may be able to get a job but how about taking care of her children and holding a job at the same time? That is going to be a struggle for sure...Even at best, life is not going to be as easy as when she was married to her abusive husband (if only he wasn't abusive).

In some countries, people in such situation receives financial support from the government. It is enough to make ends meet but certainly won't be enough to make life as it was.

Might be enough reason to stick with an abusive husband for some women simply due to economic/lifestyle pressures don't you think?


Again, in my experience, the secondary problem with abusive relationships is that the abused individual struggles to extract themselves from the relationship. Often, they won't press charges against their abuser. They cover for the abuser, making excuses for their injuries.

Still, the question is why they do that??

We still get the same answers: economic / lifestyle pressure, emotional attachment, psychological manipulation by the abuser.


By any chance you are aware of the "Universal Basic Income"? It may be the right step towards solving this problem in terms of socio-economic changes, although the measure is primarily intended to provide a more stable economy and to address large unemployment rates in the future due to automation (not to solve problems of abuse). Ironically, I project, the Universal Basic Income might also eliminate prostitution and human trafficking - other problems where women are primarily the victims.
 
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WolfGate

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That's just it.... it's not just men and boys. It's everyone. Man or woman, boy or girl, humans can grow up to be abusive. For whatever reason, culture, education, home life, role of father or lack of the role of a father, abusive parent, a narcissistic belief that they are always right... the list goes on.

To limit this to "our men and boys" is sexist as well. We have already seen on this thread that men and women are abused. We have also, I would say unanimously, agreed it is wrong and sinful.

So, let's stop limiting this to a male problem and understand that abuse is a problem, period.

We are to treat each other with kindness. Treat your neighbor as yourself. Any time we don't do this, it is a sin.
Stretch that to abuse and we have even more problems. This is not any more a problem for men than it is for women.

It's just plain wrong. The thing is, it is, many times, learned from the parents and other adult examples as a child grows up and combined with the character of the child and the culture of the home, region and culture.

JacksBratt - overall, this is true. Statistics do show both sexes can abuse and are abused. I go back to the OP and that has what I believe is different between the sexes based on my experience in our church and what we learned from other churches we consulted with on the topic. Men have a much greater tendency to not see abuse as a problem that impacts those in their sphere of influence. Men who abuse (or are abused) tend to not talk about it with other men. Women, generally because they are more likely to confide in other women about abuse, have a greater tendency to see it as a problem. I think some of the factors and language in the OP were the result of Paidiske's personal background and interactions, but the main message still is valid. Why do "so many" men minimize or deny that abuse is a problem in their sphere of influence and how can abuse prevention be improved? That is a different topic from who abuses who.
 
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Mudinyeri

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She may be able to get a job but how about taking care of her children and holding a job at the same time? That is going to be a struggle for sure...Even at best, life is not going to be as easy as when she was married to her abusive husband (if only he wasn't abusive).

This is no more or no less true for a man or a woman. It's easier to raise children as a couple. It's more difficult to do it alone. Period. The sex of the individual doing the raising isn't a factor.

I'm not familiar with the details of the UBI but, as a libertarian, it looks like more government involvement in and control of our lives. Not a good thing. I can't name a single financial program in which the government is involved that isn't an absolute mess.
 
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JacksBratt

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JacksBratt - overall, this is true. Statistics do show both sexes can abuse and are abused. I go back to the OP and that has what I believe is different between the sexes based on my experience in our church and what we learned from other churches we consulted with on the topic. Men have a much greater tendency to not see abuse as a problem that impacts those in their sphere of influence. Men who abuse (or are abused) tend to not talk about it with other men. Women, generally because they are more likely to confide in other women about abuse, have a greater tendency to see it as a problem. I think some of the factors and language in the OP were the result of Paidiske's personal background and interactions, but the main message still is valid. Why do "so many" men minimize or deny that abuse is a problem in their sphere of influence and how can abuse prevention be improved? That is a different topic from who abuses who.
I understand what you're saying but I don't find this insinuation that men minimize or deny that abuse is a problem to be true, at all. In today's societies any aggression toward women is noticed like a bright light in a dark tunnel. Just try saying something degrading to women in a group sometime......

Maybe where she is from it is an issue. However, in Canada men are well aware and definitely not minimizing it.
 
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WolfGate

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I understand what you're saying but I don't find this insinuation that men minimize or deny that abuse is a problem to be true, at all. In today's societies any aggression toward women is noticed like a bright light in a dark tunnel. Just try saying something degrading to women in a group sometime......

Maybe where she is from it is an issue. However, in Canada men are well aware and definitely not minimizing it.

I would have agreed with you until what I described in post #12 of this thread happened. Found out when we consulted with other churches that had gone through similar things that we were not unique - in fact it was pretty universal. "You don't know what you don't know"...
 
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Blade

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.

Huge question ..yet women do the same. I know of what I speak... love forgive.. bend. For me your question is really general. But could be just me lol
 
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timewerx

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I'm not familiar with the details of the UBI but, as a libertarian, it looks like more government involvement in and control of our lives. Not a good thing. I can't name a single financial program in which the government is involved that isn't an absolute mess.

Seems to be no other way. Automation is ramping up. Without UBI, and with high unemployment rates due to automation in the near future, the global economy will crash. UBI is the only solution to maintain economic growth in the face of automation. Sounds stupid but it's either that or ban automation or ditch capitalism.

Theoretically, it will be good for everyone due to much reduced financial pressure. Will directly result in reduced crime and it will deal a major blow to abusive people who use financial pressure to gain the upper hand - lots of them does!

Although I agree, it could leverage the government's control over people. It will certainly consolidate more power to the government. They'll have the overwhelming votes of the masses to support new policies or measures....from that point, democracy is no longer real but an illusion.
 
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JacksBratt

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Seems to be no other way. Automation is ramping up. Without UBI, and with high unemployment rates due to automation in the near future, the global economy will crash. UBI is the only solution to maintain economic growth in the face of automation. Sounds stupid but it's either that or ban automation or ditch capitalism.

Theoretically, it will be good for everyone due to much reduced financial pressure. Will directly result in reduced crime and it will deal a major blow to abusive people who use financial pressure to gain the upper hand - lots of them does!

Although I agree, it could leverage the government's control over people. It will certainly consolidate more power to the government. They'll have the overwhelming votes of the masses to support new policies or measures....from that point, democracy is no longer real but an illusion.
Democracy is pretty much an illusion now.
 
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Balugon

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.

I know it's real. I don't try to cover up the statistics. I think other guys may try to talk down the statistics for a number of reasons- 1. It's hard to deal with large numbers when it comes to negative statistics. It would like if another country invaded your country and killed off half its people. Some people would start to say "Oh, some of those people are really alive somewhere, just hiding out waiting to be found." Why? Because it's hard to deal with the reality. 2. Some articles and websites downplay the role women have in discussions escalating into physical violence. You might be quite calm and can't imagine many women that guys would be afraid of, but I've seen plenty of women that could do real harm to the guys around them, and I've seen them yelling their heads off and sticking their finger in people's faces. If a woman engages and continues to escalate an argument herself, it can increase the brain chemicals connected to aggression getting released by both parties, which can highly encourage physical fighting to happen since the verbal fighting hasn't taken care of the conflict (noting that sometimes the woman gets physical first). 3. If men don't have the answer to domestic violence, they might downplay the statistics in discussion simply because they are tired of hearing about a problem that they don't think they have the capability of solving.

Also, great book that can help in this area- Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life by Marshall B. Rosenberg.
 
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Catherineanne

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I'm not confident that being outraged leads to eradication.
I don't recall that ever working.

Nothing else can effect change if outrage won't.

And yes, it works. It always works.
 
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SkyWriting

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Nothing else can effect change if outrage won't.
And yes, it works. It always works.

Peace always works. Outrage is just an individuals failure of reason.

reclamo-intro.jpg





On a related topic:
Are you also outraged about women's violence against men?



4867f8fdd5640b9872f3e63561c71e50f.jpeg
 
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Paidiske

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Outrage is just an individuals failure of reason.

If Scripture can speak of even the Holy Spirit being outraged (as in Hebrews 10:29), does that not suggest there is a place for it in the Christian life?
 
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SkyWriting

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If Scripture can speak of even the Holy Spirit being outraged (as in Hebrews 10:29), does that not suggest there is a place for it in the Christian life?

Not that I can see. I can be insulted all day long and not be outraged.
How many times, exactly, are we to forgive others who sin against us? Exactly?

Hebrews 10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
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