Why do Christians feel it necessary to force their laws and customs on others?

[AlexDTX]

There are some laws passed in Christian dominated countries or communities that force non-Christians to conform to the views of Christianity.

Do you feel this is acceptable?
Are you not concerned it could cause resentment?
Should Christian customs not only be enforced amongst Christians?

Some examples of Christian laws and customs which are imposed on others for no obvious reason. Particularly if there is consent amongst the protagonists.

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff.
Public holidays on Christian religious days.
Abortion.
Gay marriage.
Monogamy.
Sodomy.
Sex under the age of 18.
Mercy killing (human euthanasia)
Suicide.

Before I get any hate mail, I do not personally subscribe to all the above. But if the people involved had no issue with them, why do Christians pass laws preventing them from doing so?

The greater question here, is by what right does any people group have to impose their laws on non consenting members of their society? How is a majority rule a fair practice? I do not agree nor consent to the US government imposing the Federal Reserve on us since it violates the constitutional requirement for Congress to coin money. Nor do I agree with them artificially inflating money so the money we are forced to use loses its buying power. Nor do I agree to a strong arm organization that is sanctioned by the US government, but is an agent of the Federal Reserve, that is, the IRS taxing us as a means to control the inflation created by the Federal Reserve.

Your question, really is, What right does any government have to exist?

The only answer I have to that is not the worn out cliche that God ordains government, but, rather God has given men the right to organize themselves as they please.

 

[Gumph]

Thank you all for some very interesting perspectives.

Your question possibly implies that Christians should set aside there views of right and wrong when advocating civil law. A few questions:

1. On what basis should a person advocate a civil law?
2. Should a Christian not advocate for laws against slavery, bride-burning, or human trafficking because it is their Christian faith that motivates them?
3. Does the fact a religious faith - any religious faith - leads one to advocate a civil law make the advocacy any less worthy than the advocacy of a person motivated by their own person non-religious beliefs?

All laws "force non-Christians to conform", so their is no reason to defend oneself against the charge of wanting to force others to conform via law. The non-religious desires for law to reflect their view of right and wrong no less than the religious.

I suppose you have a point. I think they should try and advocate laws from as neutral a perspective as possible. I certainly don't think they should set aside their views of right and wrong, but they should try and understand why they consider something right or wrong and only legislate if necessary.

1. Good question. I don't think I have a complete answer for you, but I would start with allowing consenting adults to do as they please, provided it did not hurt others.
2. Indeed they should legislate against those examples but using the reason of harm to others, not because of a personal belief system.
3. No, they are equal in "worthiness". Personal belief systems should be excluded as much as possible.

Ultimately I feel that when any law is created, the big question of "Why are we creating this law?" needs to be asked. The answer to that question helps us in determining its morality.

The thought came to me, would you pose this question in an Atheist Nation, or one ruled by ISIS?
I am grateful to live in a nation whose laws has been under Gods influence for most of its history.

Indeed yes, I think this question should be posed. Islamic countries seem to need this question asked even more deeply, but I must temper that with the acknowledgement that much of my information on this comes from the local press, which is not always an accurate source.

When a secular government enacts laws that Christians don't like, is it okay to complain because they are having atheists force their laws on them?

In a democracy you just have to live with the policies of the party that won the last election, whether you like them or not.

It depends on the law and why it is being implemented. Its difficult to comment further because "atheists" don't really have cultural laws to force on others.

Every law is about legislating morality. The legislators believe that certain actions are wrong, so they make laws against them to deter and punish people who commit them. These laws compel those who don't believe that they are wrong to comply. For instance, there are people who don't think it is wrong to use Marijuana or other drugs, but they are compelled to comply with those who think it is wrong. Western society is built on Christian values, so our laws reflect that. Two people might agree that rape and slavery are wrong, but be in disagreement about whether abortion is wrong, so people can have different understandings of morality, but if you were to replace a Christian understanding of morality with a different understanding, then you would still have a system of laws passed that would force those who don't agree to comply.

I don't really have an issue with laws forcing others to comply. My query is more about morality based purely on teachings in the Bible (at least I presume that's where they come from) - where the law forces people to comply for no reason other than to keep the law makers happy and satisfied that others are complying to their belief system.

 

[Gumph]

Let me see, Abortion is legal, Gay Marriage is legal, Sodomy is legal, sex by a couple under age 18 is legal if you meant pedophilia then no that is not legal, Suicide is illegal but no one gets sent to prison or fined or punished for it. Mercy killing is legal in some place but euthanasia is not, Monogamy is legal but perhaps you meant Polygamy? There are no laws where i live that restrict work on a Sunday. You forgot a lot of laws that Christians have attempted to force on others, social justice is a Christian concept and all welfare and social safety net programs can be traced to Christian roots.There are more that actually are illegal unlike the bulk of the ones you mentioned.
Murder
Theft
Embezzlement
Torture
Kidnapping
Human sacrifice
Slavery
All things many people would enjoy participating in if only those pesky Christians would stop forcing their religious views down everyone's throat.

Please keep in mind that there are many other Christian countries in this world where these acts are illegal. In any case I believe many were illegal in the US until quite recently.

By monogamy, I mean that it is illegal to have more than one husband or wife. Why should this be imposed on others?

I think that most communities would agree that your list is of acts they would want outlawed. I don't think Christianity can lay claim to being unique there. Those are not uniquely Christian views. That last one you mentioned is an odd one though - slavery. Does the Bible forbid that?

Could you please be more specific (as opposed to using the shotgun approach) on what laws, what customs are imposed by who upon whom? Context is everything....Also please show evidence that it is done solelyfor a "Christian" reason.

I listed nine examples. These are laws found in many Christian communities and countries. Is a law that is punishable by death or imprisonment not considered as being imposed on someone? How would you like me to be more specific?

As for your last request, I would guess that they may not be "solely for" Christian reasons. Perhaps other faiths have the same laws. However these laws tend to exist in Christian countries because a Christian Government has decided that everyone must follow Christian moral guidelines and this is the justification for law. Most laws people don't have issue with. However when one is not allowed to buy alcohol on a Sunday, then it gets a little annoying. When someone is told that they don't have the right to take their own life should they choose to do so in a dignified manner, then the annoyance level rises.

My biggest thought about this, is how much of this is a reflection of normal morality, and there is some coincidence that Christian values align with normal morality and coincidence that a society with Christian moral values is also inclined toward Christianity. Of course this assumes that your observation is valid, which has been reasonably questioned already.

I doubt anyone is objecting to "normal" morality, and indeed there is plenty of overlap between Christian, Islamic, other religions, and the non religious when it comes to morality. Its the little items on the edge that made me start the query in this thread.

Case by case, I do. I do not believe it is acceptable to force non-Christians to observe the Sabbath day. But at the same time, companies quickly and easily resent their Christian employee for doing so, if it impacts their company's objectives. Employers will naturally want to punish an employee for refusing to work and wanting to rest instead.

How about legislating one rest day for every 7 worked (or whatever ratio is chosen). Legislating that it must be a Sunday because that is the Christian day of rest is where the issue arises.

Many Christian customs should, seeing they are customs for godly living. But some customs are required for a fair society, for example a legal system should value truth and justice.

Fair enough. I think all would agree with that.

Yeah I am just wondering really, why you have picked on Christianity for this. Surely a law maker, Christian or otherwise, must act according to their moral conscience. Do you think maybe you aren't simply opposed to the common morality in Christians?

I hadn't thought I was picking on Christians, but in any case, this post is here because I live in a mostly Christian country and because I have found this Christian forum where people such as yourself are kind enough to engage in civil discussion to explain contrasting view points to my own. One day I might pick on Islam too, but as I did not grow up in a Muslim community I have limited knowledge of their culture. Mainstream press however, lends me to feel that they are a huge problem in forcing their religious views on others. The source may not be reliable though.

I am not opposed to the vast majority of Christian morals. Most have a logical reason to exist. Its the few where I don't understand the reasoning behind them where I run into problems.

 

[Gumph]

The greater question here, is by what right does any people group have to impose their laws on non consenting members of their society? How is a majority rule a fair practice? I do not agree nor consent to the US government imposing the Federal Reserve on us since it violates the constitutional requirement for Congress to coin money. Nor do I agree with them artificially inflating money so the money we are forced to use loses its buying power. Nor do I agree to a strong arm organization that is sanctioned by the US government, but is an agent of the Federal Reserve, that is, the IRS taxing us as a means to control the inflation created by the Federal Reserve.

Your question, really is, What right does any government have to exist?

The only answer I have to that is not the worn out cliche that God ordains government, but, rather God has given men the right to organize themselves as they please.

A lovely perspective, thank you. Much food for thought.

I suspect that if I knew why those laws existed, and I understood their reasoning, then I may accept them.

 

[BeStill&Know]

BeStill&Know said: ↑
The thought came to me, would you pose this question in an Atheist Nation, or one ruled by ISIS?

Indeed yes, I think this question should be posed. Islamic countries seem to need this question asked even more deeply, but I must temper that with the acknowledgement that much of my information on this comes from the local press, which is not always an accurate source.
Just replying to clarify : Look again , I did not say Islamic countries ,((( Atheist Countries ))) or one ruled by ISIS? Peace always

 

[Job8]

why do Christians pass laws preventing them from doing so?

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff. CHRISTIAN SABBATH
Public holidays on Christian religious days. WHY NOT?
Abortion. MURDER
Gay marriage. SEXUAL PERVERSION
Monogamy. GOD'S STANDARD
Sodomy. SEXUAL PERVERSION
Sex under the age of 18. KIDS NEED TO GROW UP
Mercy killing (human euthanasia) LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS
Suicide. LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS

Laws are for all. Those who do not agree with these laws can always migrate to countries which suit them better.

 

[Gumph]

BeStill&Know said: ↑
The thought came to me, would you pose this question in an Atheist Nation, or one ruled by ISIS?

Indeed yes, I think this question should be posed. Islamic countries seem to need this question asked even more deeply, but I must temper that with the acknowledgement that much of my information on this comes from the local press, which is not always an accurate source.
Just replying to clarify : Look again , I did not say Islamic countries ,((( Atheist Countries ))) or one ruled by ISIS? Peace always

I think I'm missing the point of your correction. A nation ruled by ISIS would be governed by Islamic law, would it not? My answer remains the same for an ISIS nation - yes the question should be raised.

Same goes for an "atheist nation" if I could get my head around what is meant by this and what laws they could possibly come up with that would have no logical reason behind them.

 

[Gumph]

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff. CHRISTIAN SABBATH
Public holidays on Christian religious days. WHY NOT?
Abortion. MURDER
Gay marriage. SEXUAL PERVERSION
Monogamy. GOD'S STANDARD
Sodomy. SEXUAL PERVERSION
Sex under the age of 18. KIDS NEED TO GROW UP
Mercy killing (human euthanasia) LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS
Suicide. LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS

Laws are for all. Those who do not agree with these laws can always migrate to countries which suit them better.

The question is not so much why do Christians want the law in place, its why do they want to inflict it on others?

Why do you want to force a Muslim or a Jew to honour your religious days?
Why do you feel you have the right to dictate to another woman how she should live for the rest of her life (as a Mother)?
Why do you insist on dictating what is perversion to others when it happens behind closed doors and is none of your business?
Why do you force God's standard on people who don't believe in your God?
Why do you get to decide what other people's children should do and when they are considered grown up?
Why must others put their precious lives in your God's hands when they have another God?

Migration is an option for precious few and even if it were easy, do you really feel one should emigrate every time you have a philosophical disagreement with the ruling party? Half the US would have to emigrate every 4 years or so.

 

[Job8]

The question is not so much why do Christians want the law in place, its why do they want to inflict it on others?

Any Muslim who comes to the West knows that Western values are in place. Therefore the issue of "inflict" is TOTALLY FALSE. The Muslim comes voluntarily (although often under false pretences), therefore he must voluntarily accept the prevalent laws and customs. Why does he not go to Saudi Arabia instead? (chances are they would boot him out). If Jews do not like the laws and customs of America, they are always free to migrate to Israel. If an atheist does not like the laws and customs, he is free to migrate to atheistic China (where they would probably lock him up as a subversive). What this shows is that your question and statements are meaningless. If someone feels strongly enough that laws and customs are being inflicted, they they should simply leave. No one will stop them (in fact many will be glad that they left).

Which brings us to the question "Why in the world are millions of Muslims pouring into the West, when Islamic Radicals consider the West to be corrupt and the Great and lesser Satans?" Here's the reason. They want to dominate the populations of the West so that they can establish Sharia law and the Caliphate. This is another aspect of Jihad (Holy War against Christians, Jews, and other infidels).

 

[JackRT]

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff. CHRISTIAN SABBATH

---- not biblical

Public holidays on Christian religious days. WHY NOT?

---- why not indeed? But why not honour the religious holidays of all a nations peoples?

Abortion. MURDER

---- not biblical

Gay marriage. SEXUAL PERVERSION

---- not addressed biblically

Monogamy. GOD'S STANDARD

---- there is no biblical prohibition against monogamy. Same with slavery.

Sodomy. SEXUAL PERVERSION

---- not sexual perversion but a violation of the laws of hospitality

Sex under the age of 18. KIDS NEED TO GROW UP

---- not biblical

Mercy killing (human euthanasia) LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS
Suicide. LIFE IN GOD'S HANDS

---- I don't know if these are biblically addressed

Laws are for all. Those who do not agree with these laws can always migrate to countries which suit them better.

---- if a Christian or any citizen disagrees with the laws of a nation they have every right to attempt to change them by legal means. Yes, they could migrate.

 

[Soyeong]

I don't really have an issue with laws forcing others to comply. My query is more about morality based purely on teachings in the Bible (at least I presume that's where they come from) - where the law forces people to comply for no reason other than to keep the law makers happy and satisfied that others are complying to their belief system.

Again, all laws are passed for no reason other than to keep the lawmakers happy and satisfied that others are complying to their belief system.

 

[Hospes]

I think they should try and advocate laws from as neutral a perspective as possible.

Could you state exactly what you mean by a neutral perspective"?

...I would start with allowing consenting adults to do as they please, provided it did not hurt others...Indeed they should legislate against those examples but using the reason of harm to others, not because of a personal belief system...Personal belief systems should be excluded as much as possible.

Gumph, don't you recognize you are writing you want to base law on your own "personal belief systems" while at the same time telling us people should not use their "personal belief systems" to advocate a law? Don't you see "allowing consenting adults to do as they please, provided it did not hurt others" is nothing more than your own personal belief system?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Please keep in mind that there are many other Christian countries in this world where these acts are illegal. In any case I believe many were illegal in the US until quite recently.

By monogamy, I mean that it is illegal to have more than one husband or wife. Why should this be imposed on others?

I think that most communities would agree that your list is of acts they would want outlawed. I don't think Christianity can lay claim to being unique there. Those are not uniquely Christian views. That last one you mentioned is an odd one though - slavery. Does the Bible forbid that?

It seems to me you are simply picking things you think ought to be legal and blaming Christians for them being illegal even though there is no consistency of illegality of those things across the spectrum of countries where Christians may have influence. You do this while simultaneously refusing to give Christians credit for the illegality of things you think ought to be illegal so you end up sounding rather confused as you claim Christians are a supremely powerful influence on a few making things illegal but claim they are totally impotent otherwise.
I should point out that the the majority of the things on your list of things you are blaming Christians for making illegal have been traditionally and continue to be illegal in officially Atheist and Muslim countries to a much greater and more consistent degree than countries where Christians are able to freely express their opinions.

 

[stevevw]

There are some laws passed in Christian dominated countries or communities that force non-Christians to conform to the views of Christianity.

Do you feel this is acceptable?
Are you not concerned it could cause resentment?
Should Christian customs not only be enforced amongst Christians?

Some examples of Christian laws and customs which are imposed on others for no obvious reason. Particularly if there is consent amongst the protagonists.

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff.
Public holidays on Christian religious days.
Abortion.
Gay marriage.
Monogamy.
Sodomy.
Sex under the age of 18.
Mercy killing (human euthanasia)
Suicide.

Before I get any hate mail, I do not personally subscribe to all the above. But if the people involved had no issue with them, why do Christians pass laws preventing them from doing so?

I dont think there's a law against suicide. Our societies were established with Christian values so many of these morals were generally acceptable to begin with. Since then society has become more liberal and so attitudes and values have changed. But these are just differences in values and it doesn't mean that any are right or wrong. A lot of the time its a reaction against being told what to do and people want to be their own gods. But often Christian values are not just there because some want to control people. They also make sense and some people believe they are the best way to live.

I think most people would say that underage sex is not the best way for young people to engage in. Abortion has its problems and sex outside marriage brings many problems as well. But secular society has also promoted the right for people to choose what they want to do in life morally so its up to the individual. But when something brings a lot of problems thats when society will step in and place restrictions such as with cigarette smoking or drinking.

By disallowing people to do it in certain situations makes it harder to do and is placing a control on people as well. Thats because these things will have a harm associated with them. So religious values are not the only way to control people. Its just that Christians may believe that certain things will harm people and secular society disagree. Or secular society will say that the harm is acceptable because it allows people the freedom to choose.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

There are some laws passed in Christian dominated countries or communities that force non-Christians to conform to the views of Christianity.

Do you feel this is acceptable?
Are you not concerned it could cause resentment?
Should Christian customs not only be enforced amongst Christians?

Some examples of Christian laws and customs which are imposed on others for no obvious reason. Particularly if there is consent amongst the protagonists.

No work on Sundays, if you do double pay your staff.
Public holidays on Christian religious days.
Abortion.
Gay marriage.
Monogamy.
Sodomy.
Sex under the age of 18.
Mercy killing (human euthanasia)
Suicide.

Before I get any hate mail, I do not personally subscribe to all the above. But if the people involved had no issue with them, why do Christians pass laws preventing them from doing so?

Christians 'don't pass laws' on people ---- the Creator of us all has set in motion particular moral laws so we could be protected from the fallout of disobeying them and living as we like, and so we dont become a ravenous sexually perverted and hedonistic society creating deep problems for society. If a Christian espouses something from the Bible toward you, because the Bible is Gods instructions on how to live, the Christian is helping you and is in your corner even if the Hearer has hardness of heart and wants nothing to do with living according to Gods moral Laws.