StanJ

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I have quoted you exactly, word for confusing word. But don't believe a lying atheist - go and read YOUR own message again. It makes NO SENSE.
Well you are 87, maybe your eyesight's going. However this forum has a totally serviceable quote tool and when someone like you avoids using it when you normally do, and misrepresents what I say by putting it between quotation marks, I have to say it's a deliberate misrepresentation.
 
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SteveB28

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Oh, you must mean this.....

Oh I'm aware of it all right it's just that I believe that on form such as this there are no true atheists only people that are hoping to be period to atheists don't come on forums like this they can't be bothered to talk with people who believe.
 
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mikenet2006

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"Convincing evidence"? What evidence?? Simply making a claim is not evidence!

Post #214 :p

Anway I'm out, have a nice night.

I do want to get to you Razare when I have a bit, I thought your post was interesting.
 
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SteveB28

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It is when you know the truth.

So says the Muslim.
So says the Hindu.
So says the Jew.
So says the Zoroastrian
Etc, etc, etc.....

The ONLY thing you people can offer is a claim. No evidence, just a claim.

Claims are cheap. Evidence takes hard work.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Well I'll leave it up to everybody who reads this thread to see.

That's fine with me. I don't see any self-centeredness or superciliousness in that video. What I see is someone who has thought long about these issues and speaks with the courage of his convictions.

It's little different than you expressing your religious views here, except that you want to judge his confidence and outspokenness as a vice, while you get a free pass.

Something else that comes across quite strongly in this video is that Dawkins is a happy and serene person. He seems to be comfortable with his lack of theistic beliefs. It is beautiful to see.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Moral Orel

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"It ranges from little snarky picks, to downright rude, hutrful, and hateful."

Range is a pretty self-explanatory word, the quote means that there are Atheist who are snarky, and those who are hateful, and all the space in between, as well as other types I've made mention of. To further elaborate I'd say that consecutive intentional picks indicate a prejudice and for some hate depending on the severity of the comments in question
Well then I misunderstood the phrase. I thought you were using the terms "snarky", "downright rude", "hurtful", and "hateful" to apply to the word "picks". And I thought that you were using the evidence of all of these "picks" to show that atheists hate Christianity.

So if I understand you correctly now, the only evidence for "hate" coming from atheists towards Christianity are the hateful comments, of which there are very, very few. Some, sure, but a vast minority. And unless it is the same person over and over again using snark every time they respond to a Christian, it isn't evidence for hate. We can agree on that.

But here's the thing, if snark isn't evidence for hate, then it's irrelevant to the conversation. I can lack respect for a belief in something, and respond to it with snark and sarcasm and disdain and irreverence without hating it or the person that believes it. Remember my comparison to astrology. So if it wasn't meant as evidence for your argument of "hate" then I don't know why you brought it up.

Now as to this stuff:
Now if you don't like the thread or what your reading, you can always try another one more suited to your beliefs. So do you want to keep doing this, because this kind of thing can go on for a very long time?
Take for example your idea that you're "winning" Winning or losing is what people do when they're in competition, example A Vs. example B more or less.
This is the Discussion and Debate section. Debates have winners and losers. Its not always clear, but it's always the purpose. You keep saying things like this that sound like you didn't want to hear opposition to your viewpoint, that's why I thought you might have posted in the wrong section. You started a very controversial thread, and I'm not understanding why you were surprised that it is as controversial as it is.

I have no interest in an "us vs them" mentality. It is "my argument vs your argument". It isn't "me vs you". You need to stop taking it personal. Plenty of theists know that atheists are not out to get them. I recognize that and only disagree with the viewpoint that atheists are out to get anybody.

So let's look at your evidence. In the link that I went through one by one, the vast majority of atheists were completely civil, and a small minority were snarky. Agreed?

I didn't add them up again like that link, but I followed your other links and found the same thing: the vast majority of atheists were being completely civil, and a small minority were being snarky. Agreed? I will say that the level of rudeness in the evolution video's comment section did rise above the rest, but the vast majority of respondents were civil. And you do have one article written by one atheist that states he "hates" Christianity, so I won't say "no atheist hates Christianity". And since we agree that snark =/= hate unless it is applied repeatedly for the purpose of hurting someone or their belief, I didn't see any snark being applied hatefully.

So can we agree that your list of links show a vast majority of atheists being polite and civil and that there is only a small minority that wants to make a joke out of it all? And an even smaller minority that actually "hates" Christianity?

I know your style of forum posting isn't to quote and directly respond statement by statement, but at least in this last section where I ask for agreement or disagreement, please answer those questions directly so I know whether we are just talking past each other or not.
 
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Gene2memE

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Only for you atheists! But, speaking of presuppositional, how exactly did you arrive at your conclusion that there is no God?

That's not a claim I make.

My position is: I have yet to be presented with sufficient evidence to sway me to believe in God. Therefore, I have no belief position.

My position is not: There is no God.
My position is: I am yet to be convinced.
 
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rjs330

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In 87 years, I have yet to meet one who does.



Are they working within or outside of your laws when they take these actions? Who ultimately makes the decisions about those issues - the atheists or the courts?



Is it the atheists who "knock on your door", or the legal apparatus? Do Christian organisations have anything to fear if they have operated within your laws?



Are you comparing that vile behaviour with a legal action taken through your courts?
The atheists are using the legal apparatus. For example. A cross sits in a governmental park and was placed there and maintained by a private group with permission by the park. It sits there for a very long time. No one says anything until an atheist group,sues the park to make them take it down. And it a court rules it has to come down. Now who forced the cross down? The government or the atheist group? The truth is the government would not have taken it down without the atheist suit. Of they say nothing then nothing happens. So it is the atheists who are knocking at the door through the force of government. The government is the hand the a atheists use.



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rjs330

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You know I see the word hate being thrown around a lot. Atheists hate Christians, white people hate black people, Christians hate homosexuals, conservatives hate liberals, Muslims hate everybody.

There are haters out there for sure. And most of the time it's anecdotal evidence of it such as I saw someone do something or my friend heard someone say something. There are atheist who hate Christians. There are white people who hate black people. There are black people who hate white people. There are liberals who hate conservatives. There are people who,claim to be Christians who hate homosexuals. But the truth of the matter is they are in a minority.
The word hate is tossed around so easily these days that it has just become a,buzz word to slam each other for disagreeing with us in our ideas or life choices.

I don't hate anybody. I may vehemently disagree with a person's ideas or actions, but it doesn't mean I hate them.

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Locutus

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Only for you atheists! But, speaking of presuppositional, how exactly did you arrive at your conclusion that there is no God?

Who has arrived at that conclusion, please?

I don't personally know a single atheist who has concluded that there are no gods. And I live in a country full of atheists. Every atheist I know is happy to admit that they can't possibly know if there are gods or not. Some refer to this as honesty.
 
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Locutus

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Well that's because it's your claim, not my claim, but as you seem to have a propensity for misdirection, obfuscation, and equivocation, I can't really be bothered to say anything else.

So claiming something makes it true ONLY FOR THE INDIVIDUAL?
 
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Locutus

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Yea, don't let this kind of thing fool you. It doesn't matter if you give convincing evidence, proof, or a link to Fred Flinstones fan page, it'll be viewed as Fred Flinstones fan page for some regardless. If you make a solid argument and can provide a source, wait for those types to start countering with something before you go out of your way. Because they'll want a little more, and a little more, and more, and for some it'll never be enough. What ends up happening is that you'll realize they haven't pulled their weight at all. They'll make the expectations on you high, but if you feel you've done okay, start raising the expectations on them. You don't have to prove God exsist anymore than they should have to prove God doesn't. Even if your argument isn't about whether or not something like God exsist (which people regularly seem to need proof for) there are those who will do this on a number of topics, it's not all that uncommon.

Actually, if you're trying to sell something, you do kinda need to demonstrate that it exists. Customers are funny that way. Oddly demanding.
 
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Locutus

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The atheists are using the legal apparatus. For example. A cross sits in a governmental park and was placed there and maintained by a private group with permission by the park. It sits there for a very long time. No one says anything until an atheist group,sues the park to make them take it down. And it a court rules it has to come down. Now who forced the cross down? The government or the atheist group? The truth is the government would not have taken it down without the atheist suit. Of they say nothing then nothing happens. So it is the atheists who are knocking at the door through the force of government. The government is the hand the a atheists use.



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Using the very laws that certain theists imagined would serve them and them alone. Like when they insisted on prayer in a particular school a while back. The local Satanists got wind of the new open door policy, and applied to teach Satanism for one hour a week. The original lobbyists were apoplectic.

Be careful what you wish for, is always a good adage.
 
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Oafman

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Only for you atheists! But, speaking of presuppositional, how exactly did you arrive at your conclusion that there is no God?
Actually, in my experience, it is only religious people who claim to know that Gods do not exist.

They state that every other God(s), apart from their particular version, doesn't exist. And they often claim to know this for sure, though of course they fail to support it. Whereas atheists usually say they don't believe in any of the Gods, but can't be sure of their nonexistence.

So, you need to answer your own question, as it applies to you much more than it does to most atheists.
 
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Tallguy88

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The reason many atheists attack Christianity so viciously is because deep down, they know it's true. No sane person fights so hard against something they know is false, especially if it's something that doesn't harm it's believer, like a fairy tale. But if they're worried it might actually be true, their sinful pride compels them to fight against it since they can't bring themselves to accept it. That's why many atheists so causticly mock and degrade believers simply for believing, put up billboards to call Christianity all manner of things, and try to punish or shame Christians for believing and practicing their faith openly.
 
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bhsmte

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The reason many atheists attack Christianity so viciously is because deep down, they know it's true. No sane person fights so hard against something they know is false, especially if it's something that doesn't harm it's believer, like a fairy tale. But if they're worried it might actually be true, their sinful pride compels them to fight against it since they can't bring themselves to accept it. That's why many atheists so causticly mock and degrade believers simply for believing, put up billboards to call Christianity all manner of things, and try to punish or shame Christians for believing and practicing their faith openly.

And what of the type of christians who state non believers are misled, led by evil and can not be moral people?

Are they making assumptions about non believers because they know atheism to be true?
 
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Tallguy88

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And what of the type of christians who state non believers are misled, led by evil and can not be moral people?

Are they making assumptions about non believers because they know atheism to be true?
They believe it to be spiritually harmful. So they try to warn away believers from that path and try to win converts from among them.
 
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