Why did you choose Baptism (or other denomination)?

twin1954

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Calvinists tend to have an elitist attitude towards anyone who is not calvinist.

That is not christian, at all.
Its not just that they are different as all denoms have difference, but they have an attitude of, we are spriitually better than you because of John calvins thinking. Well, not true.

If anyone is spiritually better or chosen it is Jesus. He is our head, not calvin.
For someone who doesn't want to debate the issue you seem to be ready to disparage a theology held by millions. You don't seem to actually know what Calvinists believe but are unwilling to find out. You have your opinion and is the end of the matter for you it seems.

Instead of acting like we are wrong just because you don't think you agree wit us why don't actually find out what it is we believe? We are not all followers of John Calvin and his theology is not what we base our theology on.

If you are not willing to find out what we actually believe and want to continue with your blinders on then I suggest that you not even mention us again.
 
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FaithfulPilgrim

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I am a Baptist because I think it is the most biblically sound, but I occasionally have my doubts. I was also raised a Baptist.

I have been influenced by both the Mennonites and Messianic Jews. I have not switched beause I feel that God has called me to my current church and I don't agree with Anabaptists on total nonresistance. Where I live, they are a quite small group, and Baptist is the closest thing you can get to Mennonite down here.

As for Messianics, I am not Jewish even though I agree with some stuff they teach, mainly their eschatological views and I believe the early church was similar to Messianic Judaism. I am undecided about whether or not it is wrong to go to church on Sundays.
 
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MechPebbles

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I share in nearly the same story! It seems to me that those who are willing to read the whole Bible cover to cover, and hold it as inerrant, have no other choice but to form a calvinistic theology and without knowing it!
When I was a new Christian, I thought Calvinistic doctrines were the most ridiculous, offensive and mindlessly stupid beliefs I had ever heard. But as the years and later, decades went by spent in studying the Bible and theology, I found my objections falling away one by one. It was only about 3-4 years ago when my last remaining misgiving towards Calvinistic soteriology dropped away, making me a (perhaps reluctant) full 5-point Calvinist.

I read in a theological book that Arminianism is the default theology of the fallen man. It certainly was for me!
 
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Goodbook

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Everyone is a sinner before they become born again, but even after one is born again we still have choices to make.

The thing with calvinists is they become puffed up with knowledge. I noticed that problem in ministers of the calvinist perusasion.

God does not see knowledge as the be all or end all, its the fruits of the holy spirit that count, not our brand of theology.
 
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High Fidelity

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Everyone is a sinner before they become born again, but even after one is born again we still have choices to make.

The thing with calvinists is they become puffed up with knowledge. I noticed that problem in ministers of the calvinist perusasion.

God does not see knowledge as the be all or end all, its the fruits of the holy spirit that count, not our brand of theology.

Not sure I follow.
 
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Goodbook

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The fruits of the holy spirit are in galatians 5:22.
We are to bear these fruits. When the bible says taste and see that the Lord is good it is thrrough other christians, who are vessels for the holy spirit, to share the gospel.

Often calvinists will just say well i read calvinist theolgy and am persuaded but then you cant tell if they actually have any fruit in their lives. Its all intellectual. Well on CF calvinists are the most argumentative. And the least evangelistic, with proclaiming the gospel to the lost.
 
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Goodbook

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And the bible does say that debate is not christian..Paul said we are to reason, but foolish and arguments he said to avoid, they dont bear any fruit.

I have seen debates with calvinists go on CF for months and months with no let up. I dont know what they trying to prove. I dont join in with those.nand its the calvinists who start these debates!
 
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98cwitr

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Everyone is a sinner before they become born again, but even after one is born again we still have choices to make.

The thing with calvinists is they become puffed up with knowledge. I noticed that problem in ministers of the calvinist perusasion.

God does not see knowledge as the be all or end all, its the fruits of the holy spirit that count, not our brand of theology.

Maybe all we're looking for is absolution...and we found it in Scripture :)

I can understand debating [aka rebuking] to a point, but there is always a line where you just have to remind yourself that a person will only believe what it is in their nature to believe.

John12:39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”

No one can simply choose to see if they are blind.
 
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Dan61861

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I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools. Honestly, I always felt something was wrong. I couldn't pray to Mary and the saints. When I was 24, I felt the Lord's pull, drawing me to Him. I sought out a Baptist Church. Their drive for doctrine and the heart they have for the lost keeps me Baptist.

In Christ
Daniel
 
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twin1954

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Everyone is a sinner before they become born again, but even after one is born again we still have choices to make.

The thing with calvinists is they become puffed up with knowledge. I noticed that problem in ministers of the calvinist perusasion.

God does not see knowledge as the be all or end all, its the fruits of the holy spirit that count, not our brand of theology.
We are sinners after we are saved as well. I am more aware of my sin every day. It grieves me and I abhor it. I recognize that I am in a battle with my flesh every day.
 
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The Portuguese Baptist

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The fruits of the holy spirit are in galatians 5:22.
We are to bear these fruits. When the bible says taste and see that the Lord is good it is thrrough other christians, who are vessels for the holy spirit, to share the gospel.

Often calvinists will just say well i read calvinist theolgy and am persuaded but then you cant tell if they actually have any fruit in their lives. Its all intellectual. Well on CF calvinists are the most argumentative. And the least evangelistic, with proclaiming the gospel to the lost.

OK. So, from what you have written, I assume that you are implying that, since I am a Calvinist: 1) I am very argumentative; 2) I am not very evangelistic; and 3) I do not bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Is that it? Do you find it reasonable to generalise all Calvinists in such a demeaning manner?
 
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twin1954

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The fruits of the holy spirit are in galatians 5:22.
We are to bear these fruits. When the bible says taste and see that the Lord is good it is thrrough other christians, who are vessels for the holy spirit, to share the gospel.

Often calvinists will just say well i read calvinist theolgy and am persuaded but then you cant tell if they actually have any fruit in their lives. Its all intellectual. Well on CF calvinists are the most argumentative. And the least evangelistic, with proclaiming the gospel to the lost.
This is more nonsense. If you would actually find out about Calvinism you would find that most of the men who were used of God in any revivals were Calvinists. Men such as George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, Adriniram Judsan, William Carey, Charles Spurgeon, David Brainerd, Philip Henry, Matthew Henry, only to name a few, were all Calvinists. Calvinists are the most evangelistic of people because they know that God has a people out there who will hear the Gospel by the Spirit and believe.

Yes we seem to be the most intellectual but it isn't because we only have an intellectual belief but because we value study and truth as it is in the Scriptures.

You make it very clear that you aren't interested in actually finding out about the theology that you constantly disparage but are satisfied with your opinion no matter if it is true or not.

When and if you ever decide to actually try to understand Calvinism look me up and I will help you. Until then I will expose your vanity and opinionated views.
 
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twin1954

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I am a Baptist because I think it is the most biblically sound, but I occasionally have my doubts. I was also raised a Baptist.

I have been influenced by both the Mennonites and Messianic Jews. I have not switched beause I feel that God has called me to my current church and I don't agree with Anabaptists on total nonresistance. Where I live, they are a quite small group, and Baptist is the closest thing you can get to Mennonite down here.

As for Messianics, I am not Jewish even though I agree with some stuff they teach, mainly their eschatological views and I believe the early church was similar to Messianic Judaism. I am undecided about whether or not it is wrong to go to church on Sundays.
The Sabbath was fulfilled in Christ. He is the Sabbath rest in which we find that we no longer have to do anything but rest in Him. Resting in Him alone we are now free to work because we love Him and seek to honor Him not in order to earn anything from Him. As far as Sunday worship goes we are free to worship everyday. Sunday is called the Lord's day in the Scriptures and we know that His people gathered in worship on the first day of the week. He arose from the grave on the first day of the week so we celebrate His resurrection on that day. He is not a Savior who is in the grave under the penalty of the law but a risen Savior who has conquered death and Hell and who sits on the throne ruling according to His purpose in all things. We have a man who is God our elder brother the King. We no longer observe the Sabbath, the Jews never actually di either, except as we do so in Christ. He promised us rest in Him and we find it by believing that He is enough for God and enough for us. We need nothing to satisfy God but Him and His work and we need nothing for ourselves but Him and His work. In Him, united to Him by faith, we are complete and God blessed because of Him.

All of the love of God for chosen sinners is in Christ, all the blessings of God are in Christ, all of the mercy and grace of God are in Christ Jesus the Lord alone.

When we try to earn the blessing of God by what we do we only add iniquity to it and despoil it by our sin.
 
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High Fidelity

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There is a huge misconception that Calvinists believe election = no need to evangelise.

Aside from a host of reasons why that's wrong, the most obvious would be that we're still commanded to share the gospel.
 
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Goodbook

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I notice the outreach is quite different in a calvinist church ie. presbyterian than a baptist.

a calvinist would just argue a lot about doctrine, and pray for others but not really reach out, only to their own if they are to do anything for anyone. I had noticed a snobbish attitude to anyone not calvinist i.e. not 'elected'. They don't know that...elect just means chosen, the israelites are the chosen ones in the Bible. In the Bible it always refers to them, we Gentiles are chosen through Jesus. It just seems they confuse the disitinction in scripture and think something else.

Any other christian would just say the gospel because we have compassion for the lost, wether they be jew or gentile. But it is puffing up to think we were chosen before hand like the israelites were. Just subtle difference I notice. Plus then they argue we don't choose at all. But they confuse scripture again when Jesus was talking with his disciples. God chooses and we choose to accept. Its not one or the other. Its both.

so screeds of arguements later calvinists continue to debate this trying to prove everyone else wrong, when its not even an issue. If you are saved you don't need to question it, you know because you experience His grace in your life. its salvation to the Jews first, then the gentile.
 
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MechPebbles

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OK. So, from what you have written, I assume that you are implying that, since I am a Calvinist: 1) I am very argumentative; 2) I am not very evangelistic; and 3) I do not bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Is that it? Do you find it reasonable to generalise all Calvinists in such a demeaning manner?
And yet we are accused of being quarrelsome and lacking in spiritual fruit. This is precisely what the Lord means when He warned against judging others and having a log in one's eye.
 
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MechPebbles

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This is more nonsense. If you would actually find out about Calvinism you would find that most of the men who were used of God in any revivals were Calvinists. Men such as George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, Adriniram Judsan, William Carey, Charles Spurgeon, David Brainerd, Philip Henry, Matthew Henry, only to name a few, were all Calvinists. Calvinists are the most evangelistic of people because they know that God has a people out there who will hear the Gospel by the Spirit and believe.

Yes we seem to be the most intellectual but it isn't because we only have an intellectual belief but because we value study and truth as it is in the Scriptures.

You make it very clear that you aren't interested in actually finding out about the theology that you constantly disparage but are satisfied with your opinion no matter if it is true or not.

When and if you ever decide to actually try to understand Calvinism look me up and I will help you. Until then I will expose your vanity and opinionated views.
My dear brother, I have met people in Bible Study groups who show an alarmingly serious lack of theological knowledge but even more alarmingly, have no interest in learning. Spiritually, this is the worst kind of self-conceit. The more we try to share knowledge with them, the more they harden their hearts and shut their ears. Just leave them be.
 
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twin1954

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My dear brother, I have met people in Bible Study groups who show an alarmingly serious lack of theological knowledge but even more alarmingly, have no interest in learning. Spiritually, this is the worst kind of self-conceit. The more we try to share knowledge with them, the more they harden their hearts and shut their ears. Just leave them be.
I hear what you are saying. At the same time for those who might be influenced by her false opinions I will continue to point out her errors and lies.
 
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Goodbook

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I have met people who don't show fruit but who claim to be the most 'learned scholars'.
They are ever learning, never coming to the truth.

They will constantly try to argue their pet theology when someone may be starving right next to them. I was once in a bible study with some people saying they are calvinists and they were the ones always arguing their 'ism'. If nobody agreed with them they got angry and would say well those people are deaf and blind. But actually it would be the opposite. they would also monopolise the conversation and not attend to the needs of the others in the bible study, to hear from God, not their own puffed up opinions.

Shalom.
 
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