Why did you choose Baptism (or other denomination)?

[Leevo]

Why do you disagree with Predestination? Do you think it's unbiblical, or is it just something you find to be terrible and unjust?

No, I disagree with the Calvinist doctrine of it. I am an Arminian, I don't believe it the same way that Calvinists do.

 

[twin1954]

Here you go. It's called Sovereign Grace Bible Chapel. Right now, we meet in the cafeteria of the local middle school, but I've heard that they're trying to find a legitimate building to meet in.

Church website: sgbchapel.com
Last Sunday's sermon: http://sgbchapel.com/index.php/sermons/sermon/162-the-believer-s-contradiction

Thank you! I will listen to it today. Is the speaker your pastor?

 

[twin1954]

Oh yeah. The one thing I don't understand about predestination is how the elect become elect. It's probably not a matter of the heart, because all hearts are sinful and all are equally able to be changed by God. It's not a matter of situation, because Christians come from pretty much every background imaginable, so my question is, "what are God's reasons for electing?" I guess we would have to wait until we got to Heaven to ask him.

(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:


(Eph 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


(Eph 1:5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


(Eph 1:6) To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


(Eph 1:7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


(Eph 1:8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;


(Eph 1:9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:


(Eph 1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


(Eph 1:11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:


(Eph 1:12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.


(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


(Eph 1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Electing love is God's setting His heart on chosen sinners and giving them to His Son. Election is unto salvation it is not salvation. God sovereignly chose a people unto Himself to be the objects of His love and mercy not based on anything in them but according to His purpose of grace in Christ Jesus. We are no different than any other sinner and according to 1Cor. 1:25-31 we are the foolish, weak, ignorant and base. We are the bottom of the barrel as far as the world is concerned. We deserve nothing from God but wrath and judgment. The Scriptures describe us as ungodly, full of darkness and sinners. There is no reason for us to be the chosen of God except that He set His wondrous love, mercy and grace on us in Christ Jesus the Lord.

We are not the majority in any generation but all the elect of God are as many as the stars of the sky and the sand of the sea, an innumerable company.

God's electing love is the most humbling thing that I can think of. It never makes the true believer haughty or proud but the opposite. It makes him fall at the feet of our sovereign Lord and Master singing praise to Him not to ourselves.

 

[twin1954]

Can you explain what being cessationist means?

I hope you don't mind if I answer. Being a cessationist means that you believe that the gifts such as healing, speaking in tongues and prophecy etc. have ceased. They died with the Apostles. They were for the early church and are no longer needed as we have the full canon of Scripture.

 

[Goodbook]

im not either.
predestination is in the Bible because God already knew that people would need a saviour, so he sent his only begotten son Jesus to save mankind. He had chosen the Israelites to be his special people but from them Jesus is the Messiah, and not only for the Israelites but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was always predestined right from the beginning, and we, his creations i.e mankind to be His people and live with Him forever.

Thats all it means. Calvinism puts a weird spin on predestination to mean something else.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

I personally chose Baptism because it was the most biblically sound, in my opinion. I did grow up with the Baptist church, but I wouldn't have stuck with it if it weren't sound.

What are your reasons for choosing? And if you come from another denomination, please explain why you chose as well. Just no debating.

I was raised in a Baptist church. I have analysed all things thoroughly, and I have found it to be biblically accurate in all things. Therefore, I choose to remain with the Baptists.

By the way, ‘Baptism’ is not a denomination. The denomination is ‘the Baptists’. Baptism is the act of baptising.

 

[DTate98]

Thank you! I will listen to it today. Is the speaker your pastor?

Yes. His name is Mark Fuss. Glad I can help!

 

[DTate98]

I hope you don't mind if I answer. Being a cessationist means that you believe that the gifts such as healing, speaking in tongues and prophecy etc. have ceased. They died with the Apostles. They were for the early church and are no longer needed as we have the full canon of Scripture.

I guess I hadn't thought of that subject before, but I kind of agree. Why prophecy if the final prophecy is already written in Revelation?

 

[DTate98]

im not either.
predestination is in the Bible because God already knew that people would need a saviour, so he sent his only begotten son Jesus to save mankind. He had chosen the Israelites to be his special people but from them Jesus is the Messiah, and not only for the Israelites but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was always predestined right from the beginning, and we, his creations i.e mankind to be His people and live with Him forever.

Thats all it means. Calvinism puts a weird spin on predestination to mean something else.

I hope you don't mind, but could you elaborate on the spin you say Calvinism puts on predestination?

 

[DTate98]

I was raised in a Baptist church. I have analysed all things thoroughly, and I have found it to be biblically accurate in all things. Therefore, I choose to remain with the Baptists.

By the way, ‘Baptism’ is not a denomination. The denomination is ‘the Baptists’. Baptism is the act of baptising.

Sometimes I screw up with that. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Goodbook]

no sorry I don't want to get into debates with calvinists. I just know they are wrong. I already explained what predestination means.
Sorry.

If you want to discuss things with a calvinist, go to the 'debate with a calvinist' part of CF, not here. Its boring.

 

[Goodbook]

its here if you interested
http://www.christianforums.com/forums/semper-reformanda.366/

I got better things to do with my time! Like..go cook dinner actually.

 

[DTate98]

no sorry I don't want to get into debates with calvinists. I just know they are wrong. I already explained what predestination means.
Sorry.

If you want to discuss things with a calvinist, go to the 'debate with a calvinist' part of CF, not here. Its boring.

I'm not trying to get into a debate, I just want to know where your thoughts are coming from. I don't understand why you think Calvinists are wrong which is why I'm asking.

 

[98cwitr]

Picking and choosing churches based on that singular aspect of theology strikes me funny. I grew up in the Assemblies of God, which sees Calvinism as essentially a heresy. In my adolescence they challenged me to read through the whole Bible, which is what actually brought me to become, essentially, a Calvinist, though I didn't know what it was called, at first. For the first thirty years of my life I was attending churches that thought Calvinism was a bad thing. I can't say that I was scarred for life. I can't say that they weren't brothers and sisters in Christ. It really didn't matter at all.

Coming to the Baptist church was a factor of two things. The first was a bit of luck. A construction zone caused my wife to miss a connecting bus, so she stopped in at a nearby Baptist church to wait for me to pick her up. We liked the place, so we've been attending ever since. The second factor is simply that I've always respected Baptists. They've always seemed level-headed, and they always seem to fall on the right side of moral issues. I thought they would be a little more stodgy than this, but my church seems a little more relaxed than the typical Baptist stereotype. They haven't thrown me out yet, so they couldn't be too stodgy (if you saw me, you'd know what I mean).

I can't actually bring myself to call myself a Baptist. I only say that I attend a Baptist church. In my home, growing up, the Baptists were seen as an often blasphemously cessationistic group. All kinds of miracles, it would seem, could be attributed to the Devil, but nothing could ever be attributed to the Holy Spirit, as it was presented by a Baptist radio show host in our area (Mark 3:22). My current church is cessationist, and while I'm not too happy about it I have to admit that I wasn't too happy about the charismatic church that I was previously attending. I guess the pendulum has swung the other way, for now. The important thing is that I've found a church I can attend, without walking out on the sermons. That's definitely a step in the right direction.

I share in nearly the same story! It seems to me that those who are willing to read the whole Bible cover to cover, and hold it as inerrant, have no other choice but to form a calvinistic theology and without knowing it!

 

[Goodbook]

Attending a calvinist church i,e a presybeterian and seeing the difference in attitudes.
Also, chatting with reformed christians who cannot live without their reformist authors.

There was one guy in a gathering who admitted that he went to reformed authors first instead of just reading the bible for himself. He had trouble just reading straight scripture without reformed authors and their opinions in his head.

 

[Goodbook]

Calvinists tend to have an elitist attitude towards anyone who is not calvinist.

That is not christian, at all.
Its not just that they are different as all denoms have difference, but they have an attitude of, we are spriitually better than you because of John calvins thinking. Well, not true.

If anyone is spiritually better or chosen it is Jesus. He is our head, not calvin.

 

[98cwitr]

That's just it. I can speak for myself when I say that I had no idea what calvinism even was until I was labelled one by someone else. Then I went and looked it up and then I was like "Well maybe I am one!"

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

no sorry I don't want to get into debates with calvinists. I just know they are wrong. […]

I will kindly disagree with you.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Calvinists tend to have an elitist attitude towards anyone who is not calvinist.

That is not christian, at all.
Its not just that they are different as all denoms have difference, but they have an attitude of, we are spriitually better than you because of John calvins thinking. Well, not true. […]

I will kindly disagree with you in that too.

 

[DTate98]

Calvinists tend to have an elitist attitude towards anyone who is not calvinist.

That is not christian, at all.
Its not just that they are different as all denoms have difference, but they have an attitude of, we are spriitually better than you because of John calvins thinking. Well, not true.

If anyone is spiritually better or chosen it is Jesus. He is our head, not calvin.

That may be just a handful of people you're talking about. I mostly refer to the bible when I have problems and I only refer to other people if I don't understand a passage. And I'm pretty much elitist, but only when it comes to gaming (Computer gaming FTW ).