Why did Paul tell Timothy to drink some wine?

[ABlessedAnomaly]

The Bible says one should not put new wine in old wine-skins; why? New wine will ferment due to the natural yeast present on the grapes while still on the vine. New skins will stretch and not burst, old skins are all ready stretched, and will burst, losing their contents. Old wine, on the other hand, can be put in old skins, because the fermentation is complete.

Many studies have conducted in France, Spain and elsewhere, that have shown reduced cardio-vascular disease despite high fat and high cholesterol in their diets as well as other benefits. The variable identified was higher and more regular consumption of red wine compared to North America.

Links, if you are truly interested: Red wine
Your Diet - Food - 4Health from Channel 4

HEALTH BENEFITS OF WINE | Unique Articles

...And there are many others.

This is pure speculation on my part, but could the "stomach" problems have been angina, which feels similar to heart burn?

Thanks Mark for the insightful comments. Excellent and to the point.

Angina? Well, since scripture is inspired, and even though written through the eyes of Paul (and others), would not God have led him to say "heart" instead of "stomach" if it were so? I don't know. It is an interesting question.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Thanks Mark for the insightful comments. Excellent and to the point.

Angina? Well, since scripture is inspired, and even though written through the eyes of Paul (and others), would not God have led him to say "heart" instead of "stomach" if it were so? I don't know. It is an interesting question.

Pure speculation also; neither of these faithful saints would have any knowlege of anatomy and physyology... "have some wine for your heart" "...but my gut hurts!"

Wine made from unpasteurized juice and which has not been "stabilized" the way many modern wines are are full of yeast, enzymes, and bacteria such as lacto-bacilli, bifido-bacterium, lacto coccus etc... pre-biotics and pro-biotics. Good stuff for the gut; and all the rage today!

 

[KM Richards]

Wine made from unpasteurized juice and which has not been "stabilized" the way many modern wines are are full of yeast, enzymes, and bacteria such as lacto-bacilli, bifido-bacterium, lacto coccus etc... pre-biotics and pro-biotics. Good stuff for the gut; and all the rage today!

Yes, and all of this "good stuff" is easily obtained in other products such as suppliments without having to ingest ALCOHOL...whassup with Christians wanting to drink ALCOHOL anyway???

So....what do the health studies say about ALCOHOL itself???

I know they have those too...why don't people cite those findings?

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Yes, and all of this "good stuff" is easily obtained in other products such as suppliments without having to ingest ALCOHOL...

They didn't have suppliments in Timothy's day. :o

So....what do the health studies say about ALCOHOL itself???

I thought this thread was about wine (old/new)? Now are we turning it strictly to ALCOHOL?? That's a different topic.

 

[KM Richards]

They didn't have suppliments in Timothy's day.

Yes, and part of this discussion is how doing what Timothy did...effects us, and should Christians head on out to the liquor store!

I thought this thread was about wine (old/new)? Now are we turning it strictly to ALCOHOL?? That's a different topic.

The guy was saying there were good stuff in certain wines, I mentioned those good things can be had without drinking ALCOHOL, and since lots of Christians want to fight and argue for their biblical right to drink ALCOHOL...

I'd like to see some of the science behind the wisdom of drinking ALCOHOL posted...I've heard they have some long term medical studies that warn that ALCOHOL is very bad for the body!

And as such...makes it a sin to consume ALCOHOL if the studies are correct...another thing most Christians adhere to is anything doctors say concerning health...so, why drink ALCOHOL if medical studies show it's damaging to the body?

Something wrong with the logic that wants to maintain the right to drink ALCOHOL (oh, we won't get drunk...sure you won't )...and hold doctors in high esteem...but go against what most of them say 'bout ALCOHOL, and drink it anyway, citing that which Paul told Timothy...

The funny thing is that...it's not even proven Paul was telling Timothy to drink fermented juice!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The funny thing is that...it's not even proven Paul was telling Timothy to drink fermented juice!

And... if that is indeed the case, the this whole discussion is moot.

As the cop's say... "move along; nothing to see here".

 

[KM Richards]

And... if that is indeed the case, the this whole discussion is moot.

As the cop's say... "move along; nothing to see here".

Exactly...nobody is going to change their view on it anyway, so why bother?

It's not salvation critical...it is however a health issue though.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Yes, and all of this "good stuff" is easily obtained in other products such as suppliments without having to ingest ALCOHOL...whassup with Christians wanting to drink ALCOHOL anyway???

So....what do the health studies say about ALCOHOL itself???

I know they have those too...why don't people cite those findings?

As to the first part of your post; we enjoy the bounty of creation, which is a gift from God!

As for the later part of your post; lot's of studies which prove excessive consumption of alcohol can and will kill you... and disrupt your life and the lives of those around you. (to this I can speak first hand having worked as an autopsy assistant in a large, big city hospital while in College, I also worked for many years as an embalmer and Funeral Director; add to this that my father was an alcoholic, who's over consumption lead directly to his death).

Moderation is the key. Gluttons eat themselves to death. Workaholics work themselves to death. The Bible exhorts us to be good stewards of what is given to us. Abuse and over indulgence in everything are indeed sins; sins which we are all guilty of from time to time; yet sinners we are and through repentance God forgives. Try as we may, we stumble daily; so daily we must repent, and daily we are forgiven. Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[HolySpiritWOF]

As to the first part of your post; we enjoy the bounty of creation, which is a gift from God!

As for the later part of your post; lot's of studies which prove excessive consumption of alcohol can and will kill you... and disrupt your life and the lives of those around you. (to this I can speak first hand having worked as an autopsy assistant in a large, big city hospital while in College, I also worked for many years as an embalmer and Funeral Director; add to this that my father was an alcoholic, who's over consumption lead directly to his death).

Moderation is the key. Gluttons eat themselves to death. Workaholics work themselves to death. The Bible exhorts us to be good stewards of what is given to us. Abuse and over indulgence in everything are indeed sins; sins which we are all guilty of from time to time; yet sinners we are and through repentance God forgives. Try as we may, we stumble daily; so daily we must repent, and daily we are forgiven. Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ!

amen..... good WORD and good science Mark.....

JESUS made wine at the cana wedding and they said it was the best wine..... JESUS said everyone agrees that old wine is better than new wine..... so it sounds like JESUS made old wine.....

paul told timothy to take a little wine..... drinking wine is not prohibited anywhere in the BIBLE..... only drunkeness..... and gluttony..... etc.... and paul says a little wine is good for whatever timothy was dealing with.....

we could do a lot of guessing..... or we can just follow the literal WORD...... science always ends up confirming the WORD eventually..... so if there is science that explains what paul is talking about concerning a little wine then awesome..... and we already know there is science confirming GOD'S WORD on a drunkeness lifestyle bringing harm to our bodies and our relationships.....

love the WORD and love the science posted here..... really encouraging stuff that confirms the WORD.....

 

[HolySpiritWOF]

double post

 

[HolySpiritWOF]

Thanks for your comments.
I do not know which version I read but the version which I read also had "only" in it. Does this mean that only isn't in the "original" text?

And another thing which I also asked myself which you also addressed is the little. If Paul was telling Timothy to stop drinking dirty water completely then my thought was that if Timothy instead switches to wine then drinking a little wine wouldn't be enough to survive. For example if Timothy drank nothing but one glass of wine every day then it wouldn't be enoug liquid. If on the other hand Timothy started drinking like 2 litres of wine every day then he might have gotten drunk if the wine was as strong as our wine today. Maybe the little really refers to the strength of the wine this would make the most sense. But it's still a lot of speculation. I wish this was clearer.

And another thing I also don't understand is, why didn't Paul simply tell Timothy to claim his healing or to pray over the dirty water for it to be made clean or to do anything along these lines? After all Jesus also said that no deadly thing would harm them if they drink it. Why didn't Paul tell Timothy to just proclaim this promise and to stand on it?
That's also one problem which I have with wof theology because a lot of the things which they say we must do like commanding sicknesses to go or speaking to a sickness are things which Paul never did or mentioned. Why didn't Paul simply tell Timothy to speak to his infirmities and to be made whole? Somehow this doesn't really fit together. It's as if there is a difference between how Jesus handled diseases and how Paul handled diseases.
The whole debate about healing would never have come up if Paul had only once said something like "just claim your healing" or "speak to your sickness" or "healing belongs to us". Why didn't he just say it? This would have ended all guessing and arguing about healing.

did timothy need a healing?.... was he sick?..... maybe it was just a common sense solution to effect good digestion...... people who eat a lot of fatty foods help their digestion with wine or antacids etc..... they aren't sick and need a healing..... they just need to compensate for their food choices.....

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

did timothy need a healing?.... was he sick?..... maybe it was just a common sense solution to effect good digestion...... people who eat a lot of fatty foods help their digestion with wine or antacids etc..... they aren't sick and need a healing..... they just need to compensate for their food choices.....

While your points are valid in general....

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
​

Paul tells Timothy to drink a little wine "for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

The word infirmities (ασθένεια - astheneia) is a Greek word that means a disease or sickness; a weakness. This is not a "normal" condition, or even indigestion by its implication. It comes from a root word (asthenēs) which indicates a lack of strength, feeble.

It is used about 24 times in scripture; interestingly, in this rendering (astheneias) it appears 3 times: here in 1 Tim 5:23, Acts 28:9 and Matt 8:17...

17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“ He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”
​

...which of course we talked about elsewhere as a key verse tying back to Isaiah showing that Jesus heals our sicknesses and diseases, and that that healing is available in the atonement.

The bigger question is why Paul didn't tell Timothy to belief for healing. And, personally (conjecture warning!), I think it is because Timothy ate wrong and needed to focus on his physical diet prior to focusing on spiritual healing. Kinda like eating Twinkies all day and then expecting God to heal you of the problems that will likely come from it. Then after a mercy healing, you go back to eating Twinkies all day and then expect God to.....

 

[HolySpiritWOF]

While your points are valid in general....

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
​

Paul tells Timothy to drink a little wine "for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

The word infirmities (ασθένεια - astheneia) is a Greek word that means a disease or sickness; a weakness. This is not a "normal" condition, or even indigestion by its implication. It comes from a root word (asthenēs) which indicates a lack of strength, feeble.

It is used about 24 times in scripture; interestingly, in this rendering (astheneias) it appears 3 times: here in 1 Tim 5:23, Acts 28:9 and Matt 8:17...

17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“ He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”
​

...which of course we talked about elsewhere as a key verse tying back to Isaiah showing that Jesus heals our sicknesses and diseases, and that that healing is available in the atonement.

The bigger question is why Paul didn't tell Timothy to belief for healing. And, personally (conjecture warning!), I think it is because Timothy ate wrong and needed to focus on his physical diet prior to focusing on spiritual healing. Kinda like eating Twinkies all day and then expecting God to heal you of the problems that will likely come from it. Then after a mercy healing, you go back to eating Twinkies all day and then expect God to.....

i agree.... especially considering cloths and objects that had touched paul healed the sick..... and outstanding miracles were done through him..... he would be the one who knew the power of GOD to heal ANYTHING.....

so if he told timothy to take a little wine because of his oft weaknesses..... that tells me that it was somehow connected to something timothy was doing wrong and needed to correct..... and wine is known to deal with digestive difficulties..... and even today digestive difficulties like irritable bowel syndrom and collitis stem from a person's poor eating habits.....

love how you always check the original language on this stuff..... love your spirit of excellence on WORD studies / questions.....

 

[pk4yahweh]

Kinda like eating Twinkies all day and then expecting God to heal you of the problems that will likely come from it.

So wait... are you saying... Twinkies are not God's best?

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

So wait... are you saying... Twinkies are not God's best?

Nope. Little Debbie Swiss Rolls are from Heaven.

 

[KM Richards]

Nope. Little Debbie Swiss Rolls are from Heaven.

Depends on your definition of "Heaven" doesn't it???

 

[pdudgeon]

or how about some angel food cake with strawberries?

 

[KM Richards]

It'd better be organic...and NOT eaten very often...lest one become fat!

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

or how about some angel food cake with strawberries?

I agree to this too!! Just had some homemade a couple days ago.

 

[Alive_Again]

The whole subject of wine or drinking is an interesting one. In the N.T., we're told not to be drunk with wine, wherein is excess. That points to the excess (more than enough or is prudent). It does not say to not drink wine. (I usually have no more than one glass a year, and I might not finish it.)

I had the last one right before I went to a meeting, and I was not convicted in any way for doing it. I was asking for sure! I used to party it up and I don't need a close encounter with disaster.

I'm not aware that the wine referred to is just grape juice either. People speculate on that. Jesus made wine for a wedding feast, and people drink alcoholic wine to celebrate with. You can celebrate with it legitimately if you can do it by faith and God gives you space.

It's probably not a good thing to do regularly as a soldier, and doing it in front of just anyone might make a brother fall. He might fall if he was an alcoholic or he might fall just like Paul says about eating meat in front of some brothers.

It might just be like the verse implies, that it's good for your health (in moderation). Maybe in spite of the provision of God, that people move from the rest in the course of their trials, and they become afflicted and sometimes need natural remedies, which seems to be what he's saying.

For you who are more familiar with the biblical languages, does it give any indicators about the term "wine" that make it seem non-alcoholic?