Why did Jesus descend into hell?

EastCoastRemnant

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Did you really know God when you first became a Christian?

Yes, right?
I thought so, but as I look back on it... not really. At least from the standpoint of what I understand now of His character of Love and how that Love is reflected through His eternal Law.
 
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ViaCrucis

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"Descended into hell" is a mistranslation based on Latin ambiguity. It is actually "Descended into Hades." Hades = Sheol, the realm of the dead.


Some Christians saw it in a Septuagint version of Isaiah:

"He descended into Hades and took Hades captive! He embittered it when it tasted His flesh! And anticipating this, Isaiah [14:9] exclaimed: 'Hades was embittered when it encountered Thee in the lower regions." -St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Homily

It's a stretch, but interpretation of the OT is a stretch in the NT as well.

The Latin itself is the word infernos, literally just meaning "the depths" or "the lower regions", i.e., Hades, the place of the dead. The ambiguity comes mainly from the English where the term "Hell" has been applied indiscriminately to Hades/She'ol, Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, etc.

Personally I think the more modern translation of "descended into the dead" captures the intended sense quite well and is less ambiguous than the traditional English translation of "descended into hell".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Cappadocious

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Right. So you read the Scriptures, and got something real and meaningful, but you came to know more from the same Scriptures later.

Perspicuity says, no. It says, if you are a normal person reading the Scriptures without some unusual circumstance (like an optical illusion or brain damage), then it transmits its meaning to you with 100% clarity.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Right. So you read the Scriptures, and got something real and meaningful, but you came to know more from the same Scriptures later.

Perspicuity says, no. It says, if you are a normal person reading the Scriptures without some unusual circumstance (like an optical illusion or brain damage), then it transmits its meaning to you with 100% clarity.

Which, of course, as I think you said before, is rather contradicted by the Scriptures themselves. E.g. St. Paul in Romans 10 says, "But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent?"

-CryptoLutheran
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Right. So you read the Scriptures, and got something real and meaningful, but you came to know more from the same Scriptures later.

Perspicuity says, no. It says, if you are a normal person reading the Scriptures without some unusual circumstance (like an optical illusion or brain damage), then it transmits its meaning to you with 100% clarity.
Just to be clear, you're saying that the light we receive at our first reading of scripture is all the understanding we will get?
 
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yeshuasavedme

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My question though is towards those that profess that Jesus descended into hell. Why did Jesus do it? What was accomplished there? Can you support your belief with scripture? I see a stark contrast between the dearth of scripture on Jesus descending into hell compared to the overwhelming amount of scripture foretelling, explaining the purpose and repeating the events of Jesus's death, resurrection and ascension.

I see no scripture in the Old Testament that foretells Jesus descending into hell, but Jesus many times said he did this and that to fulfill scripture, even to his death.
So what do you believe is the purpose that Jesus would have descended into hell?

Yes, it is in the OT. It is huge.
It is fully described in the Day of Atonement rehearsal committed only to the namesake people of the New Man name to rehearse,until its fulfilling, once, for all..

The reason Jesus descended into Sheol was to ascribe/give all sin "to Azazel", who is chained there and to whom all sin was to be ascribed in the 70th generation from Noah.
In Isaiah 53, the Father laid on His soul all sin and iniquity.

He departed to "the wilderness", when He left His body of flesh, and the "wilderness" is the barren wasteland of Sheol, where the fallen angels are chained, and where Azazel received all sin when the LORD Jesus descended, and set the captives free whose souls were waiting there [in comfort], for the Day of Atonement to cover the sin of Adam and perfect them in spirit of adoption so they could enter into the presence of Glory in Paradise above, to await their resurrected and regenerated bodies in the image of the Firstborn Son.

Because the Book of Enoch was wrongly banned by the RC Church in the fourth century after the Church was long established, the reason for the Day of Atonement and the ascribing all sin to Azazel in the 70th generation was lost to the west and to those who banned Enoch, however, the Torah is true on the facts of what the Day of Atonement means for the entire Adam creation, and Jesus bore our sins and the sins of the entire race of Adam on His soul when He descended to Sheol and gave those sins to Azazel.

So, the translators translated in ignorance and translated "Azazel" as scapegoat. Azazel is the chained leader of the fallen Watcher angels to whom all sin is given and who will suffer for those sins forever in the Lake of Fire.

If you confess your sins, no matter how wicked they are, then those sins are removed from you and transferred by Jesus to Azazel [& Co], and someone suffers for those wicked deeds forever, but not you, if you confess and forsake.

I had a family member die in prison last week who was sent there for child molestation about 12 years ago. He had a long history of it, but he finally got caught. I know that he also was molested when he was a very young boy, himself, and the pattern was set. But I also know that I witnessed to him in his life and even helped to get him convicted so that he could be put away to harm no more, and I also know that I prayed much for his salvation, and that in prison, he had years to repent, in sorrow.
I may see him in heaven because, like the {former] thief on the cross, Jesus takes away all sin that is repented of, and Jesus has already dumped it on the one who will pay for it forever and forever, in the Lake of Fire.



Anyone who "lays hands" on Jesus for transferring their sins to Him on the cross has their sins dumped on Azazel in Sheol, and Azazel will suffewr for them forever, at the hands of the Tormentors, in the Lake of Fire.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The term 'hell' used refers to the grave, the pit, the place of the dead... exactly where all of us go until Christ's return.
That's how I always understood it, especially after studying this "covenantle" parable in Luke 16. Fascinating!

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity...................

As the passage above (as well as chapters 4 and 9 of Romans) shows, Gentile believers become "sons of Abraham" through faith in the Messiah. This faith allows Gentiles to no longer be "strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God" (Eph. 2:19).
For centuries the Jews had received the benefits of being God's chosen people by virtue of being Abraham's physical descendants. But after the sacrifice of Yeshua, this place of honor and blessing would be predominantly given to the people represented by Lazarus. This is the meaning of being "carried to the bosom of Abraham" in this parable.

In contrast to Lazarus, the rich man was buried in Hades. An understanding of the original meaning of the Greek word hades is necessary to grasp the message of the parable. Regarding the possible etymology of this word, the The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology states that hades ". . . comes from idein (to see) with the negative prefix, a-, and so would mean the invisible . . . In the LXX hades occurs more than 100 times, in the majority of instances to translate Heb. she'ol, the underworld which receives all the dead. It is the land of darkness . . ." (p. 206, vol. 2).

Most likely, hades originally meant "unseen." Later, it came to refer to the hidden state of those buried in the earth. Symbolically, this parable shows that a point would come when the House of Judah would become "unseen" by God, out of favor because of their unbelief. There would come a time when the Jews as a whole would no longer be God's favored nation. God would harden their hearts, leading them to reject their Messiah (John 1:11).

LUKE 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." (NKJV)

What did Yeshua mean by saying here that the rich man was in "torments in Hades"? The key to discovering the symbolic meaning of this verse is the Greek noun basanois, translated "torments" above.

According to Friberg's Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, basanois, which is a form of the noun basanos, means "strictly, a touchstone for testing the genuineness of metals by rubbing against it . . ...........................

upload_2016-2-15_12-45-28.jpeg






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AnticipateHisComing

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How about this?

Ps 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Sorry, an awful translation doesn't prove it was prophesied in the O.T. that Jesus descended into hell.

Soul as used by translators in the O.T. has multiple meanings. In many places it just means living flesh/body/creature. Look at how Darby translates Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens. The Psalm 16 text you quote does not insist on the dominate current usage of the word soul to mean the spiritual part of people.

Hell, as already pointed out is not the correct word. Shoel, Hades, the place of dead are what should be used.

Corruption, so the word for word translation sounds like a cheap electronic device translating Japanese to English. When we die, our bodies would much better be described as decaying as opposed to seeing corruption.

For Psalm 16:10 I will stick with the NIV being most accurate although I would change me to my body.
"because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay."

How can I be so certain the Psalm 16 is speaking of the physical body and not the spiritual soul? This is the whole point of my OP; for Christ's death, resurrection and ascension are discussed so much in scripture that we do not have to rely on one verse that is badly translated to formulate a doctrine.

The apostle Peter in his great pentecostal sermon explains Jesus' crucifixion, death and resurrection.
Peter quotes Psalm 16 and explains King David's prophecies making it very clear that the prophecy is about Jesus' body/flesh. You should come to this understanding even reading the ESV (literal) translation.

22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus,[d] delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.”’
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

The first thing that Peter points out after quoting Psalm 16, in vs. 29, is that King David died and was buried in a tomb that still exists 1000 years later. The implication, tombs are a place for dead bodies and David's dead body was there. It goes without saying that 1000 years after his death, that his body was thoroughly decayed.

Peter than contrasts what happened to David with what happened to Jesus. Verses 31 and 32 repeat one concept four different times: "resurrection of the Christ, not abandoned to Hades, his flesh see corruption, God raised up". Jesus' body did not stay in a tomb like David's was.

Center to all this is the explicit use of the word flesh. As if one did not already know it, Peter is emphasizing that the prophecy is addressing Jesus body/flesh and not what might happen to his spirit or even David's spirit at death.

Lastly Peter preaches on the ascension of Jesus in verses 33 and 34. There Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God which was also prophesied by David in the quoted Psalm 110.

Note that nowhere in this sermon on the prophesy and fulfillment by Jesus is any mention of descending into hell.

Note that the mention of ascending is explained as going from earth to heaven. This is how ascension is used in all of the N.T.

Note that this explanation in Acts 2 is by the same apostle Peter that many misquote his words in 1 Peter 3 to mean something different. I postulate that if the doctrine of Jesus descending into hell was so crucial to be professed by the masses in a creed, there should be a lot more clear scripture that prophesied it, spoke of its fulfillment and taught of its purpose. Such is in scripture for Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension to heaven.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Well, knowing that Jesus would not contradict scripture, I would say nothing....

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in
any thing that is done under the sun.
So you say scripture does not contradict. Scripture clearly says we suffer in this world and receive our reward in heaven. Look at the last words you quote to see that it refers to this earthly life, aka under the sun.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

So many quote Ecclesiastes out of context. The bulk of it speaks of the futility of humanism and your quoted verses read as if written by an atheist such that at death it is ones end. The book contrasts two different lifestyles, one of following the world and one of following God. Don't use words that describe those that follow wisdom, pursuits and pleasures of the world to define Jesus' life or others that desire to follow God.

Look at the last verses of the book to see the recommended path to life our lives.
Ecc 12:13 The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.


Is that really your church's position that Jesus descended into the realm of dead for no purpose?
 
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Soul as used by translators in the O.T. has multiple meanings. In many places it just means living flesh/body/creature. Look at how Darby translates Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls, and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of the heavens. The Psalm 16 text you quote does not insist on the dominate current usage of the word soul to mean the spiritual part of people.

So, you're thinking King David is no longer existent. His body is fully decayed and there is no soul. If not, why not?
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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Yeah but the Biblical Christian tradition is to radically re-interpret prophecies to the point of apparent distortion. That is our faith! Do not change that which was from the beginning with traditions of men alone, AHC.
Not really a defense of why you chose to quote a scripture irrelevant to the OP unless you are admitting to being one that "radically re-interpret prophecies to the point of apparent distortion".

Nonsense. The Scriptures themselves say that the Scriptures aren't perspicuous, see St. Peter talking about St. Paul's letters in 2 Peter 3:16. The only reason we can understand the prophecies the right way is because God's Word, Christ, exegeted them for us. The pharisees could not understand. nor the apostles until Christ exegeted.

Clarity of Scripture is a false new doctrine that was invented by men, the traditions of men alone, not from the beginning.
Oh how you distort what scripture says. You don't even quote the scripture you reference that according to you proves a lack of clarity in scripture. I will quote it so that we may learn what it actually says.
2 Pet 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Most important point, note the difference between some things being hard to understand and your implication that nothing in scripture has a simple clarity. If you don't think that there is a preponderance of scripture that clearly teaches of the Son of God's suffering on a cross for our sins, dying, resurrection and ascension to heaven then you need to do some studying of scripture. As stated in the OP, these are the tenets of Christianity. It is why we call ourselves Christians. There are many clear texts that teach this and so commonly understood I will not quote them to prove it. Do a Google search if you need help with this.

Point 2, the ignorant and unstable are the ones that have a problem with the more difficult texts. It does not say that all are unable to understand the intended message of even hard to understand texts.

Point 3, it says that the ignorant twist the other scriptures, (the not hard to understand texts). This means they should/do understand some texts but change it to mean something else. By other I assume it is a contrast to hard to understand text, implying simple to understand text. A warning is given that those that do this will do it to their destruction.

Point 4, in 2 Pet 3:15 Paul writes this with the wisdom given him. Understand that Paul was not a disciple of Jesus but still an apostle. He did not receive the so important you claim exegesis from Jesus that the other 12 did. Paul gives credit to the message he preached as wisdom given to him. We know this to be a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Point 5, the pharisees did understand scripture and prophecies. When Herod wanted to learn where the Christ would be born he asked the priests and in the text from the minor prophet Micah they found the answer.
Mat 2:3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
6 “‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

Jesus said the reason why the Pharisees did not believe his message is not because of their lack of knowledge of scripture but their hard hearts.
John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart,

Point 6, scripture speaks of the gospel being plain and not of earthly wisdom.
2 Cor 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
1 Cor 1:
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Point 7, both Peter and Paul speak of the diet of spirituality. It starts with milk but we should grow to eating solid foods. This means some things are simple/easy but we should strive to mature in our faith.
Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food,
1 Corinthians 3:2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,

Point 8, while being taught by the greatest teacher, the apostles failed so much in understanding what he told them. They did not complete their understanding of God's word until Jesus ascended into heaven and sent them the Holy Spirit to guide them. So it is just not a matter of how good the teacher is, even Jesus uses the Holy Spirit to help understanding of his words.
Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Point 9, Peter, Paul, Apollos all argued from current scripture of their day, that would be the Old Testament to us, that Jesus was the Son of God, came and died for our sins and was resurrected. No quotes of unwritten New Testament scriptures used in their attempt to convince the Jews to believe. No exegesis by Jesus needed for the text of the O.T. to plainly testify of Jesus.

Acts 2:22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
Acts 17: 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.
Acts 18:24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 28 For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

Point 10, People are literate today, people have personal Bibles today, people have Bible search tools today. 2000 years ago, most could not read and certainly did not have their own Bible to read anytime they wanted. Martin Luther started a revolution with the translation of scripture to the native language and then the printing press made the availability of God's word to the masses. That meant that after that point people were not dependent on the church institution to obtain God's word. The style of having priests being the only avenue to God's word is over. With the invention of computers and large databases with search tools there is now another revolution, where all have access to what seems like unlimited knowledge. It is so much easier to gain knowledge on anything because of the ease to search and explore it today. Something that was difficult years ago is much easier. So fulfills the Daniel prophecy,
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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So, you're thinking King David is no longer existent. His body is fully decayed and there is no soul. If not, why not?
Can you argue what I wrote in the post and not what I did not write? Never said a word about David's soul. You will have to look to other texts to see what happens to ones soul at death. There are certainly enough scripture that speaks of spirits with and without bodies so I see no reason to doubt that my soul/spirit can continue/exist outside of this body.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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The Latin itself is the word infernos, literally just meaning "the depths" or "the lower regions", i.e., Hades, the place of the dead. The ambiguity comes mainly from the English where the term "Hell" has been applied indiscriminately to Hades/She'ol, Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, etc.

Personally I think the more modern translation of "descended into the dead" captures the intended sense quite well and is less ambiguous than the traditional English translation of "descended into hell".

-CryptoLutheran
Now that you have clarified where Jesus went at death, can you say what you believe he did there or for what purpose he descended into the dead?
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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That's how I always understood it, especially after studying this "covenantle" parable in Luke 16. Fascinating!
Does your understanding of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus lead you to an understanding of what Jesus did at death and why he might have done it?
 
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