Why Did God make men ?

[bling]

FAIR is giving what one deserves...what they have earned ... that is FAIR...

I have written fair treatment parables:

Parable 1

In an old house there sits above the fireplace a unique large Tiffany Vase with a rich family history. One of seven sons returns home after partying mad at his parents and took the vase and smashes it on the floor. The next day the son is truly sorry about what he has done and asks his parents for forgiveness and the parents are willing to forgive the son, but this is not the first time he has acted rashly. The father has collected every piece of glass from the vase and says to the son: “we will work two hours each night for as long as it takes with super glue putting the vase back together as best we can”. After a month the vase is returned to the mantel for all to see.

Did the family receive restitution from son that smashed the vase?

Was the father looking to repair the old vase with a glued up vase or was the father trying to accomplish something else with this month long effort?

Did the father just need to forgive the son and not go through all this waste of time?

Was the son punished or disciplined and did atonement take place?

In the end did the son return to his pre-smashing status or should he have moved to an even better relationship with his father?

Why return the vase to a place where all can see?

Parable 2

In another house sitting above the fireplace is a unique large Tiffany vase with a rich family history. One of seven sons, who lift home five years earlier, breaks into his parent’s house and takes that vase and smashes it on the floor. This is all caught on the security cameras, so the next day the loving father goes to the son’s house and tells the son he forgives him and is carrying a box with all the glass from the vase and super glue. They are to work together two hours each night to put the vase back together, but the son totally refuses to do anything and throws his father out in the street. The insurance company then goes after the son and takes all he has and puts him in jail.

The father said he forgave the son, but did forgiveness take place? (Matt. 18: 21-35)

Was the son disciplined or punished by the insurance company?

Does the child being discipline in the first parable have to equal the punishment of the child in the second parable to be fair and just?

Does punishment have to equal discipline?


Are both these parables fair treatment?

There is NOT ONE PERSON that deserves or has EARNED salvation

Right!!! God forgives them and they humble accept God’s charity (forgiveness).

That is why we need GRACE AND MERCY

God’s forgiveness is merciful/gracious/charitable/Loving.

Grace... giving one what they do not deserve ..... Mercy NOT giving one what they deserve

The prodigal son received grace/mercy (got what he did not deserve), so do you feel the prodigal son was not treated fairly and justly by his Father, since that is the fair/just way we should treat our repentant children that have been fairly/justly disciplined?

I fall on my face before A God that has thrown away "fairness " and given me His Grace and His Mercy

Why can God not be both?

BTW that is what the prodigal son got..... grace and mercy

Christians are to become like the Father in the prodigal son story treating others fairly/justly plus merciful/gracious.

Do you see the difference between disciplining a child and seeking retribution from a person refusing to accept discipline?

 

[rnmomof7]

Did the son DESERVE to be returned to the family? Did the older obedient son think that was Fair?

The problem is men fail to understand how Holy God is and what wretches they are..


Fair would be God sending me to hell

Grace and mercy saved me..

Maybe you are good enough or holy enough that you only need a fair god to give you your earned salvation

I am not

 

[EmSw]

The Old Covenant was Gods covenant with Israel ..it prefigured Christ and was fully fulfilled in Christ .We (the church) live under the New Covenant not the Old Covenant ...

Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

The New Covenant is God's covenant with Israel also.

Jeremiah 31:32 -
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah...

So, it looks like you pretty much disregard the Old Testament. Perhaps you can tell me why Jesus told us to keep His commandments, which were given in the Old Testament.

Matthew 19:17 -
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Can a person enter life if he keeps the commandments?

Matthew 22 -
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Why did Jesus bring up the commandments of the law if they were abolished?
Are we not to love God and our neighbor?
Notice all the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments.
Why would Jesus abolish the Old Testament when He is the Word? That would be akin to abolishing Himself. Surely you don't believe Jesus abolished Himself, or made Himself of no effect.

 

[EmSw]

Did the son DESERVE to be returned to the family? Did the older obedient son think that was Fair?

The problem is men fail to understand how Holy God is and what wretches they are..


Fair would be God sending me to hell

Grace and mercy saved me..

Maybe you are good enough or holy enough that you only need a fair god to give you your earned salvation

I am not

You didn't reply to my post about God's fairness in Ezekiel. Do you not think it's fair if God gives life to those who turn from their wickedness and do what is right and lawful?

 

[rnmomof7]

The New Covenant is God's covenant with Israel also.

Jeremiah 31:32 -
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah...

So, it looks like you pretty much disregard the Old Testament. Perhaps you can tell me why Jesus told us to keep His commandments, which were given in the Old Testament.

Matthew 19:17 -
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Can a person enter life if he keeps the commandments?

Matthew 22 -
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Why did Jesus bring up the commandments of the law if they were abolished?
Are we not to love God and our neighbor?
Notice all the Law and Prophets hang on these two commandments.
Why would Jesus abolish the Old Testament when He is the Word? That would be akin to abolishing Himself. Surely you don't believe Jesus abolished Himself, or made Himself of no effect.

I know you will have to think about this.. but in actuality the Gospels are RETROSPECTIVE and so they are actually the time before the New Covenant ...although we place them in the NT they are actually OT ...in that they are still about life under the law, the law that only Jesus could keep perfectly for us.. to fulfill it for us .

Gal
What is the purpose of the Law? Read the NT to find out ...start with Gal 3:24 and 25

and Romans 3;20-21

 

[rnmomof7]

You didn't reply to my post about God's fairness in Ezekiel. Do you not think it's fair if God gives life to those who turn from their wickedness and do what is right and lawful?

No man will choose to turn without His grace preceding that choice

 

[bling]

Did the son DESERVE to be returned to the family? Did the older obedient son think that was Fair?

The problem is men fail to understand how Holy God is and what wretches they are..

The problem with both sons (and most of us) is not with the realization of how “Holy” God is, but how “Loving” God is.

We have a hard time imagining a God that is as Loving as the Prodigal Son’s father, yet is the father to be our example of how we are to be?

God’s Love determines the correct discipline and/or restitution. Do you believe there is some cosmic “rule” out there that God has to follow above what His Love determines to be the correct response to sin?

Yes, what the son did to the father, he fully deserves as a kind of retribution a lonely lengthy starvation to death in a pigsty, but that is if he does not repent (turn to the father) and be humbly willing to accept the father’s Love in the form of charitable forgiveness.

What we forget is the huge value/significance the father (God) places on just being willing to humbly accept His charity (Love/forgiveness/mercy/grace).

Realize this: the father (God) is not trying to train up His children to be good “obedient” task masters, but is trying to make them Loving like He is. Without that Love anything they do is worthless (1 Cor. 13: 1-3).

The only way to get that Love is as a gift by: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”, so if you are forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt (sin like the prodigal son) you will automatically get an unbelievable huge Love (a Godly type Love).

The young son got Love by a wiliness to accept the father’s Love (forgiveness), so the father fulfilled His desire for the young son by the young son finally coming to his senses and being willing to humble accept. Does the young son need further Loving discipline (like more time in the pigsty) or is he now like his Father and has moved to a higher relationship with the father?

You asked: “Did the older obedient son think that was Fair?”

Wow, that is a powerful question, especially since you seem to be saying you do not thing the young son was treated fairly by the Father?

You need to go back to Luke 15 and see the context of these three parables and see who is really being addressed and who the older son is representing.

Is God looking for “good obedient task masters”, I am talking about only “outward” obedience and being “obedient” in their own eyes and maybe the eyes of their friends around them?

Everything seems to be directed at getting willing individuals to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness, so they can obtain Godly type Love and a Godly type love treats the young son the way the father treated the young son.

Yes, the older son had a “problem” (and may have thought the father was crazy) with the Father’s definition of fairness and justice, but the question of whether the older son has Love enough to accepts the invitation to join the party is left unanswered. (The older son is really representing the Pharisees so Jesus is showing them how the justice of the father works and leaves it to them to decide if they will accept or reject His loving justice.) Historically, some Pharisees will become Christians.

If you feel the Father is being unjust/unfair with the young son, than you are in the same camp as those Pharisees that rejected merciful justice.

I see the father as being the perfect example of fairness and justice and what we are to be as parents and really defining justice and fairness with Love.

It is truly wonderful to have such a Holy Father since we can be like the prodigal son.

Fair would be God sending me to hell

Who wrote that rule book that defined fairness that way?

It would not be fair if God said those that become Christian will not go to hell and He sent them to hell? For God to send a Christian to hell would mean God was a liar?

If some individuals were to seek God’s charity and were willing to accept His charity (forgiveness/Love/mercy/grace) and God has said He would forgive them, then they do not “deserve” to go to hell, by God’s definition of who deserves to go to hell.

Do you believe there is some cosmic rule book above God’s fairness, justice, mercy, grace, love and forgiveness that means all deserve hell above what God says?

Grace and mercy saved me..

Right, but it is also the way God’s merciful Love defined fairness and justice.

Maybe you are good enough or holy enough that you only need a fair god to give you your earned salvation

I do not deserve, earn, learn, or payback all the gifts God has showered on me, but I wimped out, gave up and surrendered to the point of allowing Him to treat me fairly and justly with gifts.

 

[rnmomof7]

The problem with both sons (and most of us) is not with the realization of how “Holy” God is, but how “Loving” God is.

We have a hard time imagining a God that is as Loving as the Prodigal Son’s father, yet is the father to be our example of how we are to be?

God’s Love determines the correct discipline and/or restitution. Do you believe there is some cosmic “rule” out there that God has to follow above what His Love determines to be the correct response to sin?

Yes, what the son did to the father, he fully deserves as a kind of retribution a lonely lengthy starvation to death in a pigsty, but that is if he does not repent (turn to the father) and be humbly willing to accept the father’s Love in the form of charitable forgiveness.

What we forget is the huge value/significance the father (God) places on just being willing to humbly accept His charity (Love/forgiveness/mercy/grace).

Realize this: the father (God) is not trying to train up His children to be good “obedient” task masters, but is trying to make them Loving like He is. Without that Love anything they do is worthless (1 Cor. 13: 1-3).

The only way to get that Love is as a gift by: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”, so if you are forgiven of an unbelievable huge debt (sin like the prodigal son) you will automatically get an unbelievable huge Love (a Godly type Love).

The young son got Love by a wiliness to accept the father’s Love (forgiveness), so the father fulfilled His desire for the young son by the young son finally coming to his senses and being willing to humble accept. Does the young son need further Loving discipline (like more time in the pigsty) or is he now like his Father and has moved to a higher relationship with the father?

You asked: “Did the older obedient son think that was Fair?”

Wow, that is a powerful question, especially since you seem to be saying you do not thing the young son was treated fairly by the Father?

You need to go back to Luke 15 and see the context of these three parables and see who is really being addressed and who the older son is representing.

Is God looking for “good obedient task masters”, I am talking about only “outward” obedience and being “obedient” in their own eyes and maybe the eyes of their friends around them?

Everything seems to be directed at getting willing individuals to accept God’s Love in the form of forgiveness, so they can obtain Godly type Love and a Godly type love treats the young son the way the father treated the young son.

Yes, the older son had a “problem” (and may have thought the father was crazy) with the Father’s definition of fairness and justice, but the question of whether the older son has Love enough to accepts the invitation to join the party is left unanswered. (The older son is really representing the Pharisees so Jesus is showing them how the justice of the father works and leaves it to them to decide if they will accept or reject His loving justice.) Historically, some Pharisees will become Christians.

If you feel the Father is being unjust/unfair with the young son, than you are in the same camp as those Pharisees that rejected merciful justice.

I see the father as being the perfect example of fairness and justice and what we are to be as parents and really defining justice and fairness with Love.

It is truly wonderful to have such a Holy Father since we can be like the prodigal son.




Who wrote that rule book that defined fairness that way?

It would not be fair if God said those that become Christian will not go to hell and He sent them to hell? For God to send a Christian to hell would mean God was a liar?

If some individuals were to seek God’s charity and were willing to accept His charity (forgiveness/Love/mercy/grace) and God has said He would forgive them, then they do not “deserve” to go to hell, by God’s definition of who deserves to go to hell.

Do you believe there is some cosmic rule book above God’s fairness, justice, mercy, grace, love and forgiveness that means all deserve hell above what God says?




Right, but it is also the way God’s merciful Love defined fairness and justice.





I do not deserve, earn, learn, or payback all the gifts God has showered on me, but I wimped out, gave up and surrendered to the point of allowing Him to treat me fairly and justly with gifts.

How nice of you to give in ..God was really lucky

 

[EmSw]

No man will choose to turn without His grace preceding that choice

And to whom does He give grace?

Proverbs 3:34, James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5

 

[EmSw]

No man will choose to turn without His grace preceding that choice

One more thing, can you show me where no man will choose to turn without His grace? Thanks.

 

[EmSw]

I know you will have to think about this.. but in actuality the Gospels are RETROSPECTIVE and so they are actually the time before the New Covenant ...although we place them in the NT they are actually OT ...in that they are still about life under the law, the law that only Jesus could keep perfectly for us.. to fulfill it for us .

Gal
What is the purpose of the Law? Read the NT to find out ...start with Gal 3:24 and 25

and Romans 3;20-21

The purpose of the law is as follows:

Deuteronomy 4:1
Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live...

Nehemiah 9:29
And admonished them in order to turn them back to Your law. Yet they acted arrogantly and did not listen to Your commandments but sinned against Your ordinances, by which if a man observes them he shall live.

Deuteronomy 17:19
It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes

2 Kings 17:37
The statutes and the ordinances and the law and the commandment which He wrote for you, you shall observe to do forever; and you shall not fear other gods.

A man will live if he listens, observes, and performs God's statutes, judgments, commandments, and laws. It will also teach him to fear God. And as 2 Kings 17:37 states, man shall observe them FOREVER. Last time I checked, FOREVER only has one meaning.

 

[rnmomof7]

The purpose of the law is as follows:

Deuteronomy 4:1
Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live...

Nehemiah 9:29
And admonished them in order to turn them back to Your law. Yet they acted arrogantly and did not listen to Your commandments but sinned against Your ordinances, by which if a man observes them he shall live.

Deuteronomy 17:19
It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes

2 Kings 17:37
The statutes and the ordinances and the law and the commandment which He wrote for you, you shall observe to do forever; and you shall not fear other gods.

A man will live if he listens, observes, and performs God's statutes, judgments, commandments, and laws. It will also teach him to fear God. And as 2 Kings 17:37 states, man shall observe them FOREVER. Last time I checked, FOREVER only has one meaning.

We are under THE NEW COVENANT .... .the old one was FULFILLED


Gal.3 :
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[rnmomof7]

And to whom does He give grace?

Proverbs 3:34, James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5

To those that are predestined by His Father

John 6:…. 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.…


John 10 ;23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.


1 Corth 2:14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Without the grace of God, without regeneration by the Holy Spirit .. the natural man has no ears to hear and understand the gospel ..



Romans 9:14-26 (KJV) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

[EmSw]

We are under THE NEW COVENANT .... .the old one was FULFILLED

It was fulfilled, yes, but not abolished, nor destroyed. Why would one want to abolish it, when Jesus said He did not come to abolish it? Why would one want to question His sovereignty about abolishing the law? Who has the authority to abolish it?

Gal.3 : 23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Do you have a second and/or third witness to establish your bolded sections as truth?

When did that faith come? Which of the following did not have faith - Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Joseph, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, or Jeremiah? Can you provide passages which confirm this, and can you provide passages which say there are differences between faiths?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

There's a reason why there is no scriptural explanation as to why God created man.

First, let's realize the obvious- such a question would be answered somewhere in the scriptures IF the answer was love, loneliness, or otherwise something simple or remarkable to one's veneration of God.

Second, let's drop the ideological sin that God was kept in the company of the Trinity as to remain perfectly at harmony- God could be one person and still have this by His nature. Loneliness was never a vice of God.


Without something to compare Himself to, there was nothing to actually make Him aware that He existed Himself. Stephen Hawking brought this up once, and upon thinking about it, I realized it made a great deal of sense.
I'm not sure if the Church theologians were addressing this paradox when they came up with this notion, but they proposed nonetheless that existence and life thereof is due not in direct purpose but of unrefined grace- it is simply in the nature of God to create, and doesn't need an activated will to enact it.

So basically, there was no reason. Put that in your morning joe

 

[EmSw]

To those that are predestined by His Father

The passages I provided do not say one word about anyone predestined. I gave you three passages which clearly state to whom God gives grace. Did you not read them? Am I wrong to believe them?

John 6:…. 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.…

Nothing is said about God giving anyone grace.

John 10 ;23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any manpluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.

Again, nothing is said about God giving anyone grace.

1 Corth 2:14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Again, nothing is said about God giving anyone grace.

Without the grace of God, without regeneration by the Holy Spirit .. the natural man has no ears to hear and understand the gospel

Why was grace given to Jesus (Luke 2:40)? What was its purpose?

Oh, I have one more verse for you -

Proverbs 3:34 -
Though He scoffs at the scoffers, yet He gives grace to the afflicted.

Want to guess what 'afflicted' means? Humble, poor, lowly, and meek. How can 'natural man' humble himself/herself under the hand of God before he/she receives grace? God says it can be done.

Romans 9:14-26 (KJV) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

I see nothing about God giving anyone grace. Try this - God gives grace to those who humble themselves before Him. Now you have three, oops, four passages which will agree with you and confirm it.

 

[EmSw]

There's a reason why there is no scriptural explanation as to why God created man.

First, let's realize the obvious- such a question would be answered somewhere in the scriptures IF the answer was love, loneliness, or otherwise something simple or remarkable to one's veneration of God.

Second, let's drop the ideological sin that God was kept in the company of the Trinity as to remain perfectly at harmony- God could be one person and still have this by His nature. Loneliness was never a vice of God.


Without something to compare Himself to, there was nothing to actually make Him aware that He existed Himself. Stephen Hawking brought this up once, and upon thinking about it, I realized it made a great deal of sense.
I'm not sure if the Church theologians were addressing this paradox when they came up with this notion, but they proposed nonetheless that existence and life thereof is due not in direct purpose but of unrefined grace- it is simply in the nature of God to create, and doesn't need an activated will to enact it.

So basically, there was no reason. Put that in your morning joe

There was a reason stated in Revelation 4:11 -
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Knowing this therefore, we see the following:

1 Chronicles 29:17 -
I know also, my God, that thou tries the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness.

Psalm 147:11 -
The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

We are created to walk in uprightness, to fear the Lord, and hope in His mercy. These are the things which give Him pleasure.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

There was a reason stated in Revelation 4:11 -
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Knowing this therefore, we see the following:

1 Chronicles 29:17 -
I know also, my God, that thou tries the heart, and hast pleasure in uprightness.

Psalm 147:11 -
The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

We are created to walk in uprightness, to fear the Lord, and hope in His mercy. These are the things which give Him pleasure.

Nothing in your post really shows anything I presented. 'Created for thy pleasure' is not the universal translation, in fact 'Created by your will' seems to run smoother with the context.

Also, you are building way too much on something that is otherwise simple. He intended to take pleasure in us falling so that we can beg for mercy- is what your ultimately saying, which is ridiculous.

 

[EmSw]

Nothing in your post really shows anything I presented. 'Created for thy pleasure' is not the universal translation, in fact 'Created by your will' seems to run smoother with the context.

What you presented is outside the Bible, along the lines of human reasoning.

As far as 'pleasure' or 'will', I'll ask this - do you will things in which you take pleasure? Do you not will what you love, and love what you will? Are not your desires also involved in what you will?

Also, you are building way too much on something that is otherwise simple. He intended to take pleasure in us falling so that we can beg for mercy- is what your ultimately saying, which is ridiculous.

How did you come to this conclusion? Where did I specify He takes pleasure in us falling and begging for mercy?

 

[rnmomof7]

It was fulfilled, yes, but not abolished, nor destroyed. Why would one want to abolish it, when Jesus said He did not come to abolish it? Why would one want to question His sovereignty about abolishing the law? Who has the authority to abolish it?

Christ fulfilled the law PERFECTLY for us.. because we could never keep it.

Sin existed before the law was written .. Adam sinned.. the whole world sinned in the time of Noah...and was judged for it,
Sodom was judged before there was a "law"


God gave the WRITTEN law so that men would know what sinners they were .. they would know they could never be righteous in themselves.. they needed someone to pay that sin debt for them.

In the OC the sacrifices were offered at the temple.. The NC the final perfect sacrifice was offered on the cross for the people of God

Do you have a second and/or third witness to establish your bolded sections as truth?

When did that faith come? Which of the following did not have faith - Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Joseph, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, or Jeremiah? Can you provide passages which confirm this, and can you provide passages which say there are differences between faiths?

All the above looked forward to the cross .. we look back at the cross.. all saved by faith in Christ..


Galatians 3:24-25 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


"So the law has been our tutor for Christ, in order that from faith we would be deemed righteous."Galatians 3:24 (CNT)


Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."


My friend ...heaven will be filled with men that have broken the law, that have sinned...the difference between them and the men in hell is those in heaven have a Savior