Why did God create harmful things that exist in nature?

[Sammy-San]

God created poison ivy and other poisonous plants and mushrooms, and also bacteria. Many of the plants which people use as drugs today, are also part of the things that God created. One may argue that God created bacteria and poisonous plants because they may serve some purpose in nature and the ecosystem, but why did God create drugs? Some people even argue that drugs have medicinal usage, but some drugs, such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world. So why did God create them?

 

[BryanW92]

such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world.

Interesting. Where does it say that?

 

[Sammy-San]

Interesting. Where does it say that?

What is the Jesus drug (dimethyltryptamine)?

The physical and spiritual aspects of human beings are closely intertwined. The spiritual impacts the physical and vice-versa. It is possible that a psychedelic drug such as dimethyltryptamine could temporarily give a person greater access to the spiritual world. God’s strong warnings about sorcery (pharmakeia), mediums, witchcraft, etc., make it clear that such activities do indeed have spiritual implications (Leviticus 19:31; Galatians 5:20; Revelation 9:21). Contacting the spirit world through psychedelic drugs and/or sorcery appears to be possible; therefore, God strictly prohibits it.

 

[jbearnolimits]

God created poison ivy and other poisonous plants and mushrooms, and also bacteria. Many of the plants which people use as drugs today, are also part of the things that God created. One may argue that God created bacteria and poisonous plants because they may serve some purpose in nature and the ecosystem, but why did God create drugs? Some people even argue that drugs have medicinal usage, but some drugs, such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world. So why did God create them?

Everything has a purpose. Things that are beautiful such as a rose, also has thorns. They are a sweet smell, but hurt if you just grab them without care.

The use of some plants improperly can cause problems. When you speak of drugs I assume you mean marijuana and things like that, rather than the mixed chemicals in many pills today.

Lets think about this. You are a member of a herd of wild animals. You see one of your fellow animals eat a mushroom and then they go nuts! Are you going to eat it? NO! You are going to avoid it. The defense of the mushrooms is their ability to cause these effects if eaten. It preserves them.

There are a lot of things God has made that people don't fully understand because we tend towards evil. We seek evil, and therefore we only find evil. But if we looked for good, we would find the good use of these things.

 

[Sammy-San]

Everything has a purpose. Things that are beautiful such as a rose, also has thorns. They are a sweet smell, but hurt if you just grab them without care.

The use of some plants improperly can cause problems. When you speak of drugs I assume you mean marijuana and things like that, rather than the mixed chemicals in many pills today.

Lets think about this. You are a member of a herd of wild animals. You see one of your fellow animals eat a mushroom and then they go nuts! Are you going to eat it? NO! You are going to avoid it. The defense of the mushrooms is their ability to cause these effects if eaten. It preserves them.

There are a lot of things God has made that people don't fully understand because we tend towards evil. We seek evil, and therefore we only find evil. But if we looked for good, we would find the good use of these things.

Why did God create those substances?

 

[Radagast]

Interesting. Where does it say that?

I noticed that Superhero Sam did not answer this question, which was wanting a Bible verse for "such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world."

 

[BryanW92]

I noticed that Superhero Sam did not answer this question, which was wanting a Bible verse for "such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world."

He did, but its buried way down in a word study of the Greek word for "sorcery by using drugs.

Which makes me wonder about something. If we are supposed to have access to Scriptures in our native language, as the Reformers believed, then why do people spend so much time digging into the Greek and Hebrew to find messages that are hidden to people who only read the English versions?

For non-denoms, many people here really do make a good case for having seminary-trained priests to interpret for us. The new "Internet Orthodoxy" proclaims that you need to read the ancient languages to know the full meaning, which is what the RCC told the people who translated the bible for us.

 

[fozzy]

He did, but its buried way down in a word study of the Greek word for "sorcery by using drugs.

Which makes me wonder about something. If we are supposed to have access to Scriptures in our native language, as the Reformers believed, then why do people spend so much time digging into the Greek and Hebrew to find messages that are hidden to people who only read the English versions?

For non-denoms, many people here really do make a good case for having seminary-trained priests to interpret for us. The new "Internet Orthodoxy" proclaims that you need to read the ancient languages to know the full meaning, which is what the RCC told the people who translated the bible for us.

There are some things you can learn from the original languages that cannot be understood in English. For instance, Hebrew names were full of meaning and the OT is filled with names. Adam meant man or mankind while Eve meant life or living. It is also helpful when we come across a passage that is hard to understand to look at the original language. This does not mean that God cannot speak to us thru the translation but it always helps to see what was originally said.

As for hallucinogens being a doorway to the demonic world, I've never heard that before. Demons do not need drugs to control us just lots of unbelief and doubt. It's not what we put in that defiles us but what comes out. Jesus and Paul understood that principle.

 

[jbearnolimits]

There are some things you can learn from the original languages that cannot be understood in English. For instance, Hebrew names were full of meaning and the OT is filled with names. Adam meant man or mankind while Eve meant life or living. It is also helpful when we come across a passage that is hard to understand to look at the original language. This does not mean that God cannot speak to us thru the translation but it always helps to see what was originally said.

As for hallucinogens being a doorway to the demonic world, I've never heard that before. Demons do not need drugs to control us just lots of unbelief and doubt. It's not what we put in that defiles us but what comes out. Jesus and Paul understood that principle.

Actually, I tend to look at the Greek and Hebrew more as using other translations of the Bible. I may not understand something in the KJV so I open the NLT and see it written in a different way. I understand it in the one translation and then look back into the KJV and can now see how it says the same thing.

When I do a study in the Greek or Hebrew it is the same concept. I find that it always says the same thing. Now there are some words that the English language has which can mean multiple things, but when you study and use the dictionary (and the Bible) to give the definitions that could go along with those words, you can understand it just as well as if you used Greek or Hebrew.

This has been my experience anyway.

By the way, to answer your question Superhero Sam, God does have a purpose for them. I know that many substances are used as pain killers. Some are just good to look at. Others may have other medical benefits that I am not aware of. I am not a botanist so I couldn't tell you what they are.

As for those drugs such as the chemical based pills in the world, it is a man made mixture, not a God made mixture.

But I can tell you that God created the tree of knowledge. The effects of eating from that tree are clearly seen today and it is worse than any effect of these drugs. But it had a purpose. This purpose may have been discovered if they did not disobey God.

For now though, all we know is the bad effects of it. We do not know what good may have come from it (not without speculation anyway).

And by the way, these drugs can be used to alter your mind...but that doesn't mean they are a way to "contact the spirit world". Sin is what opens the door to the demonic, the use of drugs is just another sin.

Repentance is the way to shut the door to the demonic and open the door to the Holy.

 

[Steeno7]

God created poison ivy and other poisonous plants and mushrooms, and also bacteria. Many of the plants which people use as drugs today, are also part of the things that God created. One may argue that God created bacteria and poisonous plants because they may serve some purpose in nature and the ecosystem, but why did God create drugs? Some people even argue that drugs have medicinal usage, but some drugs, such as hallucinogens, have no medical purpose, and according to the Bible, they are sorcery, because they open people up to the demonic world. So why did God create them?

Have you considered the fall?

 

[Neogaia777]

Here is my misguided opinion: Some plants evolved defense mechanisms, such as poison ivy or oak for example because perhaps before sometime they didn't have these poisonous properties, but as a defense mechanism or in response to some threat to their survival and to propogate themselves (multiply) they developed these properties as a defense mechanism to ensure their survival at some point.

Other plants God made to develop and evolve so as to be used by us in pharmacuticals (drugs) were meant to be used by us, in controlled doses, to use them to get "high" is sorcery, but to use them for a valid medical purpose in controlled doses is not. I think God created (or made to evolve) plants that could be used as cures or treatments for the various medical maladies we humans were going to have to face...

For example (I think) even in ancient times they discovered that if they crush up into a salve certain plants they could help to cleanse the wound, and coterize the blood, and speed up the healing process of fleshly wounds, to use them in this way was not "sorcery" but it is being used in the way in which it was intended to be discovered by us...

Taking to much of a drug or simply using it to get "High" or what people call a head change, is sorcery as far as drugs made or derived from plants go...

We live in a world of good and bad ever since the fall and I believe God put poisonous plants in the world in order for us to learn about them and stay away from them...

Well, I tried,

God Bless!

 

[ALoveDivine]

I must say, these are terrible examples. Natural hallucinogens can be used sinfully, though I'd hesitate to say they are "bad" in and of themselves. For example, cannabis is both a beautiful plant and it can be used in the treatment of severe medical conditions quite effectively. Psilocybin mushrooms are basically the only known effective treatment for rare and excruciatingly painful cluster headaches. These things are all good, if we understand their purpose. Good things become bad when we violate their purpose, that is when use becomes abuse. Eating shrooms to alleviate cluster headaches is one thing, eating them to travel off to psychedelic land is another thing entirely.

A better question would be why did God create (or permit) deadly pathogens, viruses, lancet flukes, flesh-eating bacteria, etc. My only response would be that creation is ecological, whereby each part makes up an indispensable part of the whole and the whole is very good. Also, God has morally sufficient reasons for permitting the existence of apparent evils, reasons which may be beyond the ability of our limited and finite minds to comprehend.

I reject the premise that God intended the earth to be a cushy paradise where we would never stub our toes and scratch ourselves. I believe God intended us to be in close fellowship with him, whereby he would guide us in the ways of life, whereby we would have to rely on him for guidance when it came to avoiding danger and living correctly.

 

[Neogaia777]

A better question would be why did God create (or permit) deadly pathogens, viruses, lancet flukes, flesh-eating bacteria, etc. My only response would be that creation is ecological, whereby each part makes up an indispensable part of the whole and the whole is very good. Also, God has morally sufficient reasons for permitting the existence of apparent evils, reasons which may be beyond the ability of our limited and finite minds to comprehend.

I reject the premise that God intended the earth to be a cushy paradise where we would never stub our toes and scratch ourselves.

Didn't disease, pathogens, viruses and the like come "after" Adam and Eve sinned and sin and death entered the world? And aren't disease, pathogens, viruses and the like enter the world as a result of Sin?

To the second, I wonder if there were any dangers like these in the Garden of Eden? What do you think?

God Bless!

 

[ALoveDivine]

Didn't disease, pathogens, viruses and the like come "after" Adam and Eve sinned and sin and death entered the world? And aren't disease, pathogens, viruses and the like enter the world as a result of Sin?

To the second, I wonder if there were any dangers like these in the Garden of Eden? What do you think?

God Bless!

I reject young earth creationism. So no, I dont believe these things came after the fall. The fall specifically brought spiritual death to mankind, separation from God. There is abundant and irrefutable scientific evidence for these aformentioned phenomena existing long before humans. I interpret Genesis 1 allegorically, not literally.

Yes of course such things were in the garden. The world didnt completely change after the fall; the laws of physics did not change, that is a YEC myth. I think the garden of Eden was a lush tropical landscape just east of the fertile crescent which existed probably 50-100 thousand years ago.

It wasn't some supernatural heavenly realm; what made it heavenly was that mankind had direct unblemished fellowship with God.

 

[Neogaia777]

I reject young earth creationism. So no, I dont believe these things came after the fall. The fall specifically brought spiritual death to mankind, separation from God. There is abundant and irrefutable scientific evidence for these aformentioned phenomena existing long before humans. I interpret Genesis 1 allegorically, not literally.

Yes of course such things were in the garden. The world didnt completely change after the fall; the laws of physics did not change, that is a YEC myth. I think the garden of Eden was a lush tropical landscape just east of the fertile crescent which existed probably 50-100 thousand years ago.

It wasn't some supernatural heavenly realm; what made it heavenly was that mankind had direct unblemished fellowship with God.

So Adam and Eve could catch a cold, get a hold of a poisonous plant (touch poison ivy and get all itchy, for example)?

Interesting about your conclusions, if you could, could you please explain to me the difference between an "allegorical" belief in Genesis and the creation account and a literal one?

But You believe that a literal Adam and Eve and Garden of Eden existed 50-100 thousand years ago? Interesting? how did you reach your conclusions, please explain if you would, I would really like to hear more about your conclusions?

God Bless!

 

[faroukfarouk]

When sin entered the world at the Fall, it also affected the natural world also. Romans 8 is helpful here.

 

[ALoveDivine]

So Adam and Eve could catch a cold, get a hold of a poisonous plant (touch poison ivy and get all itchy, for example)?

Interesting about your conclusions, if you could, could you please explain to me the difference between an "allegorical" belief in Genesis and the creation account and a literal one?

But You believe that a literal Adam and Eve and Garden of Eden existed 50-100 thousand years ago? Interesting? how did you reach your conclusions, please explain if you would, I would really like to hear more about your conclusions?

God Bless!

I dont want to derail the thread so ill be brief.

Yes they could, say, touch poison ivy, assuming it grew there. Keep in mind that they had direct fellowship with God, so I imagine God was guiding them through every step of life with perfect wisdom so I doubt calamity would have ever befallen them had they not acted in insubordination as they did.

As for allegorical readings of Genesis, look up "framework hypothesis" on wikipedia. That view is the closest to my own at this point.

Yes I believe in a literal Adam and Eve but I do not necessarily take the events described in Genesis 2-3 literally. The events convey theological truth in easily comprehended narrative, it need not be read as objective history in the details.

The snake and the trees, as well as Eve coming from Adams rib, may all be examples of figurative imagry intended to convey deeper spiritual concepts.

The idea of 50-100 thousand years ago is a consequence of the consensus of modern science that humanity is aproximately that old.

I arrived at my conclusions by recognizing that the God of the bible is in fact the God of the universe, and that these two revelations (properly understood) do not contradict. Reason and science are just as important as biblical scholarship in understanding God.

On top of that, when you begin to study the bible systematically with hermeneutic integrity absent circularly-reasoned presuppositions, you find that fundamentalist literalism is often times a rather poor framework for biblical exegesis.

An example of this is that the first few chapters of Genesis use obviously mythical language, lending to an allegorical rather than a literal reading.

 

[parsley]

Poison ivy is in homeopathic pain killers and muscle relaxants.

Digitalis (flower) is in heart medicine, but if eaten in the wild can kill people with a heart attack.

Fancy cheese is grown with mold all over the outside, and this aging process keeps milk protein from spoiling for months.

The good and bad are there in nature, but we need to learn and respect limits.