Why can't dog have six legs?

FrumiousBandersnatch

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Even natural selection can be random.
It's random in the sense that it is stochastic. A given selection pressure may affect individuals within its scope (i.e. the relatively less fit for that criterion) at random, but its effect on the population as a whole is not random because it affects only those individuals within its scope.

Selective forces in a region can change.
Yes, changing selection criteria will drive evolution in correspondingly new directions.
 
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It's random in the sense that it is stochastic. A given selection pressure may affect individuals within its scope (i.e. the relatively less fit for that criterion) at random, but its effect on the population as a whole is not random because it affects only those individuals within its scope.

Yes, changing selection criteria will drive evolution in correspondingly new directions.

Now we agree evolutionism works on a second principle of randomness.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Now we agree evolutionism works on a second principle of randomness.
There are lots of everyday process that involve random events which sum to consistent and predictable results - for example, in radioactive decay the time before a particular atom decays is random, but for a bulk of that element, the time it takes for half the atoms to decay is a constant and distinctive fingerprint value.

Consider also car accidents - each accident is effectively random, but in the UK, drivers aged 17-24, who drive only 5% of the total car miles, make up 18% of the reported car accidents.

Randomness is involved in everything that happens, through quantum mechanics, but the world at human scales is relatively orderly and predictable.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Reason being that this spine evolved to walk on all 4s, not for bipedalism.

This is a serious problem. I asked you who deemed that as a fact before you answered but got nothing unless I missed it. And you do speak as if that *is* a fact, when it most certainly is not....It's at best an assumption, and not designed to explain fact but help further a made up evolution, or bologna to help back up bologna.

How many of you got into believing evolution by being so gullible that you just buy something like is presented here on the spine, and without question? I suspect many either buy things like that or they think to themselves...."Well, maybe that particular thing there is wrong, who knows, but they have so much other evidence that evolution MUST be true"

If you are one of those, don't you get it? don't you see that ALL of their so-called evidence is just like that, so having tons of it, amounts to no evidence at all, but it makes for a good delusion for those that aren't paying attention, or would rather believe in evolution for whatever reason.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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This is a serious problem. I asked you who deemed that as a fact before you answered but got nothing unless I missed it. And you do speak as if that *is* a fact, when it most certainly is not....It's at best an assumption, and not designed to explain fact but help further a made up evolution, or bologna to help back up bologna.
It's just a question of understanding, which requires a little knowledge. Check out some comparative anatomy of the human skeleton with other mammals, especially other primates.

I suspect you won't, but you should be able to read a wikipedia article on it: Skeletal Changes Due To Bipedalism. For a single paragraph summary of the implications, see Bipedalism - Significance.
 
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Read it again. God told the earth to bring forth the critters. He did not create them Himself. That's why the limitations are in place.

Evolution is random for some theorists. If it is not random for you, then what
was the cause of the non-randomness?
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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This is a serious problem. I asked you who deemed that as a fact before you answered but got nothing unless I missed it. And you do speak as if that *is* a fact, when it most certainly is not....

Except that it is. This is basic anatomy.
The S-spine of humans is an adapted C-shaped spine like we find in other mammals that walk on all 4s.

It gets better though... Have you ever seen dolphins or whales swim?
They move op and down, instead of sidewise like fish.
In contrast, crockodiles and lizards walk moving sideways.

This is all explained through the anatomy of their ancestors, the spine being an important part of that.

Whales and dolphins 'swim' using the same motion as their mammalian land ancestors.
Exactly as we would expect, if evolution is true.

Nested hierarchies, once again.

It's at best an assumption

It's not. It's a testable prediction of evolution and demonstrable through comparative anatomy.


, and not designed to explain fact but help further a made up evolution, or bologna to help back up bologna.

No. Just a simple prediction wich naturally flows from the model proposed.
If evolution is wrong, there would be no reason to expect the spine of bipedal humans to be an adapted version of quadrupal ancestors.
If evolution is wrong, there would be no reason for whales and dolphins to swim using the same motion and muscles as land animals that walk on all 4s.

If evolution is accurate however, then such things are exactly how they should be.

How many of you got into believing evolution by being so gullible that you just buy something like is presented here on the spine, and without question?

It is not without question. At all.
It's just confirmation nr I-lost-count of the nested hierarchy that MUST exist, if evolution is true.

Why does this hierarchy show up EVERYWHERE we look?
We can literally take ANY aspect of ANY 2 random creatures and see if they fit the hierachy as predicted by evolution.

To poke a hole in the theory, you would need JUST ONE example of something that doesn't fit this hierarchy. JUST ONE.

For evolution to stand tall, ALL such predictions must check out. And they do.
You see, when people like Francis Collins (a devout christian, btw) say that "the evidence for evolution is overwhelming", they really aren't exaggerating. It really is overwhelming.

Millions of predictions concerning the nested hierarchies. One failed prediction puts the theory in serious problems. After all those years, nobody ever succeeded in coming up with such an example. That's pretty overwhelming.

I suspect many either buy things like that or they think to themselves...."Well, maybe that particular thing there is wrong, who knows, but they have so much other evidence that evolution MUST be true"
Your opinion is noted.

If you are one of those, don't you get it? don't you see that ALL of their so-called evidence is just like that

Testable and verifiable? Yes. Yes, indeed.

, so having tons of it, amounts to no evidence at all, but it makes for a good delusion for those that aren't paying attention, or would rather believe in evolution for whatever reason.
I have no emotional attachments to any scientific theory about anything.

You're projecting. The only one in this discussion with emotional attachments to specific beliefs, is you.
 
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AV1611VET

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I been told by creationists that life is diverse because the creator loves diversity, so why did not the creator create 6-legged dogs?
Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
 
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Ken Behrens

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And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The sense is that the earth made the creature, and God fine-tuned it so that it could reproduce.
 
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USincognito

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Let me suggest that earth did in fact bring forth such critters, and they did not live to create offspring. The skeleton was unsuitable, as mammal diversification requires ability to separate upper and lower body movements. Such insects use all their legs together, on each side, and they do not have an internal skeleton, which is how the legs can move together. The requirement that larger creatures be able to find larger amounts of food demanded that the limbs be able to perform more than one function (like running after it, and then holding it for the teeth.)

Whether you believe in evolution or creation, you must believe that any creature that is not fit to survive, dies. The difference is whether such creatures happened because of God's command, or at random.
Why don't we see birds with wings and arms then?
 
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Kenny'sID

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It's just a question of understanding, which requires a little knowledge. Check out some comparative anatomy of the human skeleton with other mammals, especially other primates.

I suspect you won't, but you should be able to read a wikipedia article on it: Skeletal Changes Due To Bipedalism. For a single paragraph summary of the implications, see Bipedalism - Significance.

Then if the fact we have lower back pain means we weren't meant to walk on 2 legs, does the fact we have foot pain when we stand too long, mean we weren't meant to walk? Or maybe we were meant to swim and our feet didn't evolve into flippers instead?

Get what I'm saying?

I'm telling you... it's all spin and you've been duped..
 
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Kenny'sID

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And there's Creationism in a nutshell again - just make stuff up.

After all this time you haven't settled with the fact Christians believe God created things because the Bible says so? For you and anyone else that may not have been paying attention, some of us believe the bible is a fact and not made up, or are you saying we should not believe that?
 
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