Why are women not allowed to become priests?

[ChirpChirp]

It's something that's always bothered me- if a woman wants to dedicate her life to God, the only way she can do it is to become a nun, meaning she can never have a family. So why are women not allowed have a higher position in church? Maybe if not a priest, just more of a role. Every time I go into church I'm always struck by the male dominance and the lack of females to relate to. I'm not a crazy feminist or anything, and I love my priest, but it really does seem very unbalanced. Even during the last Sunday mass, our priest talked about how the women following Jesus stayed with him until the end, and some of them were first witnesses to His Resurrection. I know in some Protestant branches women are allowed to be pastors (is that the right word?). Does anybody else have the same thoughts?

 

[Kristos]

I woman can dedicate herself to God without becoming a nun.
Not becoming a nun does not guarantee a family.
Leadership roles are open to women - parish council president, choir director, archdiocesan positions.
Sunday Mass?
Priesthood of believers - you are a priest. Or did you mean that you want to stand up in front of everyone and be recognized?

 

[ChirpChirp]

I woman can dedicate herself to God without becoming a nun.
Not becoming a nun does not guarantee a family.
Leadership roles are open to women - parish council president, choir director, archdiocesan positions.
Sunday Mass?
Priesthood of believers - you are a priest. Or did you mean that you want to stand up in front of everyone and be recognized?

Which archdiocesan positions are open to women?

No, it's not about recognition, it's about having an official female to look up to as well as a male.

I know not becoming a nun does not guarantee a family, but becoming one definitely guarantees not having a family!

And why not a priest?

 

[katherine2001]

There are many women saints, which includes women who were married. Jesus was male, as were all of the Apostles. Jesus treated women as equals, and yet all the apostles were males. I think that is an important thing to remember. The priest represents Christ, and Christ was male.

There are women saints who are called "equal to the apostles", who did evangelizing. The greatest "mere" human being is Christ's mother, the Theotokos. Remember, in Orthodoxy, those who are priests, bishops, patriarchs, deacons are not positions of power--they are positions of service. Are you aware of the accountability to God those who are in authority in the Church have? God will hold them strictly accountable for their actions--after all they can leave badly wounded flocks behind them if they are not careful. Priests have very little time with their families. As any priest kids and matushkas/presbyteras, or Khourias how much time they get to spend with their fathers/husbands.

Women in the church have many women to look up to--the saints, the Theotokos, nuns, missionaries, etc. As Kristos pointed out, women can serve in many positions in the Church. One great modern saint is Mother Maria of Paris who died in the concentration camps (along with a priests, etc) who helped her save many Jews during WWII. She became a nun later in life so she did have children, as did Mother Alexandra (formerly Princess Ileana of Romania), who took the veil when her children were grown and became Abbess of a monastery in PA. How about looking at the older women in your church. It is usually the women who keep the parish running--they do a lot of work in the church to keep it running smoothly. In Russia, it was the babushkas who kept the churches alive in many, many cases during the Communist years.

Women in the Orthodox Church have many, many women to look up to for inspiration and what women can accomplish for God. Start reading the lives of the women saints, and you will be greatly inspired.

Why is it important for women to have an "official" female to look up to? Do some googling to find out why women are not priests and hierarchs (which is understandable, because hierarchs were priests before they were bishops). Ask your priest about it--he would probably be more than happy to explain it to you. All I know is that the Orthodox Church is the Church that Christ established on Pentecost and my task to conform to the Church and not theirs to conform to my desires and beliefs.

 

[Dorothea]

Which archdiocesan positions are open to women?

No, it's not about recognition, it's about having an official female to look up to as well as a male.

I know not becoming a nun does not guarantee a family, but becoming one definitely guarantees not having a family!

And why not a priest?

Well, there are plenty of females in the Church to look up to, besides the Saints. Abbesses/Gerondessa (is that right?), priest's wife, or a nun.

As far as why a woman isn't a priest is I think it's because Christ took on flesh and became man, not woman. He appointed all men to be His Apostles.

There are several reasons why women do not need to be priests. They are considered "prophets," and men are needing to be in that serving and nurturing position more than women. They've already got that down, with a few exceptions. Women are in all areas of the Church. Just because they aren't in the Altar doesn't make them less important. We all have our talents and gifts, and man and woman are equal but different because of their gifts and talents, if you will.

 

[E.C.]

How about looking at the older women in your church. It is usually the women who keep the parish running--they do a lot of work in the church to keep it running smoothly. In Russia, it was the babushkas who kept the churches alive in many, many cases during the Communist years.

This!

Remember the line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding? "The husband is the head of the house, but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants!"
That pretty much rings true for 100% of all Orthodox churches everywhere!


Of course, if you wish to dedicate your life to God and desire a family you could always setup camp outside a seminary
Or just know how to look for a man who has the same desire

 

[rusmeister]

The rational case as to why not:
“Priestesses in the Church?” [C.S. Lewis]

Intro teaser:

“I should like balls infinitely better,” said Caroline Bingley, “if they were carried on in a different manner … It would surely be much more rational if conversation instead of dancing made the order of the day.”

“Much more rational, I dare say,” replied her brother, “but it would not be near so much like a Ball.” We are told that the lady was silenced: yet it could be maintained that Jane Austen has not allowed Bingley to put forward the full strength of his position. He ought to have replied with a distinguo. In one sense, conversation is more rational, for conversation may exercise the reason alone, dancing does not. But there is nothing irrational in exercising other powers than our reason. On certain occasions and for certain purposes the real irrationality is with those who will not do so. The man who would try to break a horse or write a poem or beget a child by pure syllogizing would be an irrational man; though at the same time syllogizing is in itself a more rational activity than the activities demanded by these achievements. It is rational not to reason, or not to limit oneself to reason, in the wrong place; and the more rational a man is the better he knows this

.

So a short answer is, If we did, the Church would not be the Church, but a religious political party.

 

[rusmeister]

Plus, both at church and at home, every time I lift up my eyes to the icons, I find myself looking up to women. St Stephanie, a martyress torn apart by two trees tied together and released for refusing to recant the faith and sacrifice to the pagan gods, for example. Never mind the Theotokos, the greatest among human saints.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

Why are men not allowed to have babies?

 

[Christian7PraiseJesus]

Why are men not allowed to have babies?

That is unrelated to leadership positions - which has nothing to do with class, one's appearance, ect... It has to do with decision making

I don't see how women can go to college in greater numbers for the last 30 years and receive higher grades on average, yet you reject this ability to lead and think

Then again, I'm mostly watching this conversation...

I have a different experience that most people though, for I know I am equal, and this partly has to do with the way I was brought up in my family, which I'd say would differ from many others' experiences, I appreciate this greatly, and I know no human rules over me, but JESUS alone, who IS GOD.

(I'll continue watching thread and others)

 

[rusmeister]

That is unrelated to leadership positions - which has nothing to do with class, one's appearance, ect... It has to do with decision making

I don't see how women can go to college in greater numbers for the last 30 years and receive higher grades on average, yet you reject this ability to lead and think

Then again, I'm mostly watching this conversation...

I have a different experience that most people though, for I know I am equal, and this partly has to do with the way I was brought up in my family, which I'd say would differ from many others' experiences, I appreciate this greatly, and I know no human rules over me, but JESUS alone, who IS GOD.

(I'll continue watching thread and others)

Well, you may be watching the conversation, but you must not have read what some of us have said, nor read what CS Lewis, one of the most formidable Christian thinkers of the twentieth century, had to say on the subject.

Nor have you grasped that we do not see ordination as into "decision-making" or power, but into a sacred duty, that of performing sacraments, and that IS something on the same deep level, that none of us can possibly answer, as to why God ordained from the beginning that only women would experience childbirth and nursing. So the Church ordained that only men - and a certain type of man - could perform these sacred functions. Fighting against it because of a mistaken idea that priests "rule", or wield power over us, is kicking against the pricks. Look at what the Orthodox women are saying. They know that we are quite egalitarian in the Church, AND that our sex makes differences, and does not make for any kind of "superiority".

But better read the Lewis essay I linked first.

 

[xenia]

It was God Who decided which of us would be born male and which would be born female. Life on earth is short compared to eternity. We should spend our years here working out our salvation, using what the Lord has given us, be it maleness or femaleness. The Lord made half of us women for a reason, for our benefit and for our salvation.

Not even all men get to be priests.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Just to add my two cents worth - I feel there is more "equality" in Othodoxy than in any other church I've experienced. There is no feeling of being "lesser" because I'm a woman. I've never felt that my priest or bishop was in any way lording it over me, but was rather my "helper" in the Church.

Every one of us, whether male, female, laity, priest, hierarch - it doesn't matter - is struggling in the same way, along the same path towards Christ and salvation. That emphasis on our own life in Christ just seems to keep us all on a level playing field, so to speak, no matter our official title within the Church. The important role is the same for all of us - to be Christlike to one another.

I realize this doesn't get to the "why" of the question, but it does get to the idea that is sometimes behind the question - that of "equality".

Mary

 

[katherine2001]

Just to add my two cents worth - I feel there is more "equality" in Othodoxy than in any other church I've experienced. There is no feeling of being "lesser" because I'm a woman. I've never felt that my priest or bishop was in any way lording it over me, but was rather my "helper" in the Church.

Every one of us, whether male, female, laity, priest, hierarch - it doesn't matter - is struggling in the same way, along the same path towards Christ and salvation. That emphasis on our own life in Christ just seems to keep us all on a level playing field, so to speak, no matter our official title within the Church. The important role is the same for all of us - to be Christlike to one another.

I realize this doesn't get to the "why" of the question, but it does get to the idea that is sometimes behind the question - that of "equality".

Mary

Orthodoxy treats women more as equals than I saw in Western Christianity. They will correct a husband who treats his wife like a possession that is just there to do whatever he wants.

The positions of bishops and priests are not positions of power--they are positions of service to the flocks God puts under their care.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

That is unrelated to leadership positions - which has nothing to do with class, one's appearance, ect... It has to do with decision making

I don't see how women can go to college in greater numbers for the last 30 years and receive higher grades on average, yet you reject this ability to lead and think

Then again, I'm mostly watching this conversation...

I have a different experience that most people though, for I know I am equal, and this partly has to do with the way I was brought up in my family, which I'd say would differ from many others' experiences, I appreciate this greatly, and I know no human rules over me, but JESUS alone, who IS GOD.

(I'll continue watching thread and others)

Becoming a priest, like becoming a mother, is not a function of sufficient cualifications, (although being a good priest and mother may be). Leadership qualities are not a sufficient condition to either. Rather, it is a question of ontology.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and there are womens roles within the parish, the Matushka/Presbytera/Khouria/etc is a very important role, and there have been some very saintly priest's wives

 

[ChirpChirp]

Hi everyone, thanks for the comprehensive replies!
I will reply in more detail later, but just something I wanted to say before I forget

Orthodoxy treats women more as equals than I saw in Western Christianity. They will correct a husband who treats his wife like a possession that is just there to do whatever he wants.

I am surprised to hear you say that, as my experience has been a bit different...

crestinortodox.ro/nunta/femeia-se-teama-barbat-137242

( It's an article in Romanian, add w w w. at the beginning and .h t m l at the end, I'm not allowed post links yet)
Basically this article does its best to prove that women are not equal to men, and that a woman should "fear" her husband "irrespective of whether he loves her or not". I've even heard it preached in one of the orthodox churches I go to that a woman should put up with a physically or sexually abusive husband, because it's not her place to complain....

 

[RKO]

All of the posts here that celebrate the role of women in the church are exactly correct. they are the heart and soul of the church.
but I have to agree with the original poster. This is one of those things that I accept in the Church (same in the RC, of course) but I think the concept is archaic. I know the church doesn't change (much,) but the role and position of women in the world certainly has. They are no longer property and have taken their place as completely equal to man, as they always should have been. The only thing that prohibits a woman from being an excellent priest is an archaic rule, made up by men.

sorry, end of rant...

 

[Dorothea]

Women do just about everything in the Churches. Let's let the men do something.

 

[truthseeker32]

Why are men not allowed to have babies?

Although this may seem simplistic on the surface, there is something to what Jesus4Madrid is saying here. Behind the opposition to a male-only priesthood is the idea that sex and gender are not important, that they don't have any meaning. The Orthodox faith recognizes that maleness and femaleness goes beyond our physical appearance. Latin languages with masculine and feminine words shows this much better than English.

While it is more difficult to see, the reason women cannot be priests is similar to the reason men can't be mothers: they don't have all the necessary attributes to fulfill the role.