Why am I so disliked?

[oi_antz]

No there is a Canadian atheist on this board who has been treated poorly by Christians. There's a real evil brand of Christianity out there that I've never seen first hand.

 

[renewed21]

No there is a Canadian atheist on this board who has been treated poorly by Christians. There's a real evil brand of Christianity out there that I've never seen first hand.

Christian is more of a social term today, so it is important to understand that when you use the term in that post.

 

[oi_antz]

Christian is more of a social term today, so it is important to understand that when you use the term in that post.

Why is that?

 

[renewed21]

Why is that?

To move out of the relativistic use of words. Christian is a term not so understood by the majority. So when you say a Christian hates so and so, I begin to think about genuineness of said person. That is all.

 

[oi_antz]

To move out of the relativistic use of words. Christian is a term not so understood by the majority. So when you say a Christian hates so and so, I begin to think about genuineness of said person. That is all.

So when I say Christian and someone else gets the wrong image in their mind, what word do you think is a better term for describing a disciple of Christ?

 

[Puptart]

So what is the problem?
Any comments, advice, etc?

The problem is people in general tend to be judgmental short-sighted idiots

I like you just fine.

My advice? Work on a thicker skin, because there will always be people out there that hate you for something. It's just the sad way the world works.

 

[canadianicon25]

No there is a Canadian atheist on this board who has been treated poorly by Christians. There's a real evil brand of Christianity out there that I've never seen first hand.

Are you referring to moi?

 

[Rusticus]

Canada too?

I might have said "North American" - but because this includes Mexico as well, it would not have reflected what I wanted to say.

"Anglophone North American" would include some of Canada. But I fear that that might do an injustice to Canadians, because I have yet to meet a Canadian who displays toxic revulsion towards atheists (although they possibly exist).

 

[paul becke]

I consider myself an atheist and while I am not particular public about it, when it does come up there is a very quick and obvious change in the way a person treats/converses/approaches me. I have even lost close relationships with people whom I had a long standing friendship with until they found out that I wasn't a Christian. I am a kind, generous, honest, and loving person and yet I find that I am often disliked and/or feared simply because I am an atheist.
I did some looking around and even found a research study showing that Atheists are the most hated and distrusted minority in America. I'm just not sure how to handle this. Like I said before I am good person. I have moral standards, a warm heart, and am friendly with any and all. So what is the problem?
Any comments, advice, etc?

My advice is to accept that you can't be sure that God doesn't exist, even if you believe it, and view yourself as an agnostic. You would want to be open to the fact that He does, if it were made clear to you, wouldn't you? So, why burden yourself with that tag.

Not so long ago, I believe in the Northern cities of the US, it was probably considered quite cool for a kid to say he was an atheist; not so much now with the future of the planet and our affluent societies so uncertain.

 

[oi_antz]

No there is a Canadian atheist on this board who has been treated poorly by Christians. There's a real evil brand of Christianity out there that I've never seen first hand.

Are you referring to moi?

Not at all, from what I've seen you appear quite a pleasant person No there is an atheist on this forum I have been speaking with for over a year and he's had some bad experiences at the hands of folk who identify themselves as Christian. He's in Canada too.

 

[Rusticus]

Don't fool yourself. America is a great purveyor of atheism. Just watch a movie or turn on the television.

I did not say that there are no atheists in the USA, or that they are not visible.
My point was that elsewhere in the world very few people make an issue of the fact that a person is christian, atheist, callithumpian, or whatever.

 

[Tnmusicman]

I consider myself an atheist and while I am not particular public about it, when it does come up there is a very quick and obvious change in the way a person treats/converses/approaches me. I have even lost close relationships with people whom I had a long standing friendship with until they found out that I wasn't a Christian. I am a kind, generous, honest, and loving person and yet I find that I am often disliked and/or feared simply because I am an atheist.
I did some looking around and even found a research study showing that Atheists are the most hated and distrusted minority in America. I'm just not sure how to handle this. Like I said before I am good person. I have moral standards, a warm heart, and am friendly with any and all. So what is the problem?
Any comments, advice, etc?

Probably a lot of the people you come across have had experience with the "knucklehead" variety of atheists. Perhaps you have met "knucklehead" Christians as well. It would be great to determine how we feel about each other based on the type of person you/we are but it doesn't always work that way.

Sent from my iPhone using CF

 

[Soothfish]

I consider myself an atheist and while I am not particular public about it, when it does come up there is a very quick and obvious change in the way a person treats/converses/approaches me. I have even lost close relationships with people whom I had a long standing friendship with until they found out that I wasn't a Christian. I am a kind, generous, honest, and loving person and yet I find that I am often disliked and/or feared simply because I am an atheist.
I did some looking around and even found a research study showing that Atheists are the most hated and distrusted minority in America. I'm just not sure how to handle this. Like I said before I am good person. I have moral standards, a warm heart, and am friendly with any and all. So what is the problem?
Any comments, advice, etc?

I used to be an atheist too. The general public will continue to demonize you before they even get to know you thanks in large part to the anti-theist movement centered in the USA and Europe. This particular brand of atheists possess a hatred towards people of faith that is fanatical....religious even. Many public figures in this movement have expressed their desire to see religious expression forcibly banned in all public spaces and even to see children forcibly seized from theist families and placed in the hands of state-controlled institutions. Richard Dawkins is the biggest proponent of that.

Atheists ought to distance themselves from these individuals in the same way that mainstream Muslims ought to distance themselves from the hard-line Islamists. And yes I do believe that anti-theists have the potential to be just as lethal as the Islamists. Anti-theism was central to Marxism and the slaughter of hundreds of millions of "enemies of the state", including men, women, and children accused of espousing theistic faith. The last true Marxist nation in the world is North Korea. This is a country where professing a belief in Christ can get your entire family sent to a forced labor camp...forever. Even small children from these families will endure torture that would make some Nazi SS cringe. The lucky ones will be starved, shot, or used as test subjects for chemical weapons. In some ways these camps are worse than the Nazi death camps because the objective is not quick extermination but prolonged inter-generational torture. I'm sure you get my point by now...

Anti-theism is to be distinguished from atheism. Many of the enlightenment era ethics philosophers could not believe in God(s) and technically qualified as atheists.

Karl Marx was no ethics philosopher. He was a class envy baiter. He and Vladimir Lenin were also known misanthropes who supported state-sanctioned population purges of "excess" children. Sadly these policies already exist in most of the world.

 

[Rusticus]

..... The last true Marxist nation in the world is North Korea. This is a country where professing a belief in Christ can get your entire family sent to a forced labor camp...forever......

North Korea is not Marxist at all. If you had said "Stalinist" I could agree with you.
Also: Marxism as such has nothing to do with Atheism. Surely you are not seriously suggesting that Dawkins is a Marxist???

 

[Soothfish]

North Korea is not Marxist at all. If you had said "Stalinist" I could agree with you.

technically you are correct but that's ultimately irrelevant in this case. They are all ideologies from the same evil source.

Also: Marxism as such has nothing to do with Atheism. Surely you are not seriously suggesting that Dawkins is a Marxist???

No I was discussing two very different examples. Dawkins calls himself a "cultural Christian" strange as that may sound.

I would argue the point that "Marxism as such has nothing to do with Atheism". The communists had plenty to say about the "poison" of religion. Class warfare itself can't really exist without an atheist worldview or at least an attitude towards the world that willfully excludes the hereafter.

 

[Rusticus]

Class warfare itself can't really exist without an atheist worldview or at least an attitude towards the world that willfully excludes the hereafter.

Why?
Because a belief in the hereafter makes people happy about being exploited? I should think not!
Surely as a Catholic you are familiar with "Liberation Theology".

 

[Soothfish]

Why?
Because a belief in the hereafter makes people happy about being exploited? I should think not!
Surely as a Catholic you are familiar with "Liberation Theology".

Class warfare has nothing to do with stopping exploitation. It is about pitting one group of people against another by feeding their sense of envy. In a free economic system, one large company has the option to take the 'good guy' role and pay the workers a better wage while the other company faces the consequences of worker upheaval. The 'bag guy' company will then be forced to lower the wages because the strike/private unionization is causing them to lose money to the 'good guy' competitor. That's only if they are smart. If they are stupid, they'll hire workers overseas for even lower prices and then watch as they run out of customers and their own wealth gradually dwindles (yes this is happening. We used to have people with over a hundred billion!). People can't buy products if they don't have well paying jobs!

When liberty is restricted, all persons are at the mercy of whatever plan the government has for their lives. Typically this involves turning every man, woman, and child into an expendable piece of government property. In every circumstance it begins with governments bribing the largest part of the population for votes. Then when the economy sours they come up with a scapegoat. Over time the nightmare escalates. Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly. History confirms this.

I do not agree with Liberation theology. Jesus told people to voluntarily give up their wealth out of love and to invest in the kingdom of heaven, not to use the martial force of governments to force others to do so at sword point!

It is typically atheists who do not believe in 'heavenly rewards'. Someone who believes that this life is all there will ever be will often demand that this LIFE BE FAIR here and now. They don't care who they hurt in the process because they are desperate for limitless happiness here and now! Never mind that (according to their worldview) they will eventually die and cease to care how much happiness they took by force.

However, there are still some atheists who are humble and accept what they are given in life while working hard to build up their prosperity....or perhaps simply to beat the competitor in an honest game of wits and ingenuity. It may be sad that many wealthy people are extremely selfish and refuse to use their wealth for the benefit of mankind but trying to destroy these people isn't going to make anything better. Communist countries tried to do this and they created the worst earthly Hells in all of history.

 

[Rusticus]

Class warfare has nothing to do with stopping exploitation. It is about pitting one group of people against another by feeding their sense of envy. In a free economic system, one large company has the option to take the 'good guy' role and pay the workers a better wage while the other company faces the consequences of worker upheaval. The 'bag guy' company will then be forced to lower the wages because the strike/private unionization is causing them to lose money to the 'good guy' competitor. That's only if they are smart. If they are stupid, they'll hire workers overseas for even lower prices and then watch as they run out of customers and their own wealth gradually dwindles (yes this is happening. We used to have people with over a hundred billion!). People can't buy products if they don't have well paying jobs!

When liberty is restricted, all persons are at the mercy of whatever plan the government has for their lives. Typically this involves turning every man, woman, and child into an expendable piece of government property. In every circumstance it begins with governments bribing the largest part of the population for votes. Then when the economy sours they come up with a scapegoat. Over time the nightmare escalates. Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly. History confirms this.

I do not agree with Liberation theology. Jesus told people to voluntarily give up their wealth out of love and to invest in the kingdom of heaven, not to use the martial force of governments to force others to do so at sword point!

It is typically atheists who do not believe in 'heavenly rewards'. Someone who believes that this life is all there will ever be will often demand that this LIFE BE FAIR here and now. They don't care who they hurt in the process because they are desperate for limitless happiness here and now! Never mind that (according to their worldview) they will eventually die and cease to care how much happiness they took by force.

However, there are still some atheists who are humble and accept what they are given in life while working hard to build up their prosperity....or perhaps simply to beat the competitor in an honest game of wits and ingenuity. It may be sad that many wealthy people are extremely selfish and refuse to use their wealth for the benefit of mankind but trying to destroy these people isn't going to make anything better. Communist countries tried to do this and they created the worst earthly Hells in all of history.

I mentioned Liberation Theology not to suggest that you agree with it, but to illustrate that there are many people involved in class struggle who at the same time do believe in a hereafter - contrary to what you stated.

I do notice that you use the emotionally charged term "class warfare" rather than the term "class struggle". The term "class warfare" is a product of extremist Capitalist ideology, and as such is loaded with unspoken sub-texts.
I do believe that your distaste of class struggle has more to do with your Capitalist faith than it does with your Christian faith.

 

[Soothfish]

I mentioned Liberation Theology not to suggest that you agree with it, but to illustrate that there are many people involved in class struggle who at the same time do believe in a hereafter - contrary to what you stated.

I do notice that you use the emotionally charged term "class warfare" rather than the term "class struggle". The term "class warfare" is a product of extremist Capitalist ideology, and as such is loaded with unspoken sub-texts.
I do believe that your distaste of class struggle has more to do with your Capitalist faith than it does with your Christian faith.

That sounds like an ad hominem attack. Revise it please.

 

[Rusticus]

That sounds like an ad hominem attack. Revise it please.

It is not. Did I say it was wrong to have faith in Capitalism? It is a personal choice.
However: There is nothing in the teachings of Jesus that would discourage us from working for social justice.
Therefore, if you believe it is wrong to struggle for social justice, it's because of Capitalist ideology, not because of the teachings of Jesus.
And just before you get upset again: It's obviously your right to say that one should not struggle for social justice; but I do object when you claim this is what Jesus teaches us!