Why Abortion should never be Outlawed!! (an honest, personal eperience) TRUTH!!!!

Skaloop

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The only problem I have with this view is NO CONSIDERATION IS GIVEN TO THE CHILD

Actually, the mother (and in many cases, the father) give plenty of consideration. Even if it's an abortion of mere convenience, I doubt there are many women who enter into it lightly. I have a friend who has had two abortions. The first when she was a mere teenager and in no place to raise a child, and the second was when she was older but her personal circumstances would not be conducive to raising a child. You can make the arguments that she shouldn't have had unprotected sex, or that she should have carried to term and put the child up for adoption, but regardless of that, in both cases, it was an extremely difficult decision and would not have been her choice were circumstances different. Plenty of consideration was given towards the fetus. The decision to abort was not made willy-nilly.
 
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razeontherock

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You guys only care for imposing your morality onto others and trying to make everyone else think and act like you. It really doesn't concern the "children" does it? Once that child is born, you never give it another thought. The concern lies in making the expecting mother do what you think she should do. It may just be the bad mood I'm in today, but I really think the pro-life argument has little to do with saving children, only fetuses.

(the above "you" is the "general you" and not you, specifically, Raze.)

Bad mood or not, you DO have a valid point here! This is a "social problem." I would feel better labeling it as an anti-social problem :mad:

The relevant Mother Theresa quote here pertains at least as much to the above "you" within the Church as it does to the pro choice side of the aisle:

It is a poverty that a child must die so that you can live however you wish. (Not in quotes because this is only the basic gist, at best. Hope I didn't mangle it)

Skaloop: glad to hear it. This much was not represented in your original statement - no fault in that. Peace
 
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JadeTigress

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Morning after pill? (RU486, heh)

Just wanted to clear something up, for those people that may not be aware:

The morning after pill is a pill with a higher dosage of hormones like you'd find in regular birth control pills. All it does is prevent conception. If conception has already occurred, then the pill does nothing. Which is why you want to take EC as soon as possible after sex to increase your chances of it working.

RU-486 (mifepristone) is used as an abortifacient.
 
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selfinflikted

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It is a poverty that a child must die so that you can live however you wish. (Not in quotes because this is only the basic gist, at best. Hope I didn't mangle it)

I don't disagree with this. However, until I miraculously become pregnant, I will never be faced with such a difficult decision. Regardless of my personal feelings on abortion, I do not feel that it is my place to make such a hefty decision for anyone else. It's simply not my place. That is between the mother, doctor, and whatever deity, if any, she has faith in.

Of course, in a perfect world, there would be no unintended pregnancies and by extension no "convenience" abortions. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and, sadly, difficult decisions have to be made.
 
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razeontherock

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I don't disagree with this.

Glad to hear it! This brings up the more basic question:

ethics is right vs wrong. The choice between evils is much more complex, and maybe that's all morality entails? (See the painting of Solomon's judgment, previously in every US courtroom)
 
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mdancin4theLord

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I don't like it because it is not accurate. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice, but it would certainly be my preference if nobody ever got an abortion. If anything, I am anti-abortion. But the freedom of women to choose to have an abortion outweighs my objections to women having abortions.


I beg to differ.....you are in fact pro-abortion...you want it legal so that woman can kill. That is not pro-life.....that is not pro-choice for the unborn. What choice do they get with people like you who think their mothers should be able to kill them?

You are not anti-abortion, that is laughable, absolutely laughable.

If there is something wrong with abortion.......why do you want the option open? LOL

You are pro-abortion.
 
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selfinflikted

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I beg to differ.....you are in fact pro-abortion...you want it legal so that woman can kill. That is not pro-life.....that is not pro-choice for the unborn. What choice do they get with people like you who think their mothers should be able to kill them?

You are not anti-abortion, that is laughable, absolutely laughable.

If there is something wrong with abortion.......why do you want the option open? LOL

You are pro-abortion.

Simply put: It is not his choice to make. Nor is it yours.
 
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mdancin4theLord

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Just wanted to clear something up, for those people that may not be aware:

The morning after pill is a pill with a higher dosage of hormones like you'd find in regular birth control pills. All it does is prevent conception. If conception has already occurred, then the pill does nothing. Which is why you want to take EC as soon as possible after sex to increase your chances of it working.

RU-486 (mifepristone) is used as an abortifacient.


Some people dont think abortion and birth control are related. They think they have nothing to do with one another. The facts show this is not the case, as some birth control are abortifacients....they cause early term abortions.

The IUD seems to prevent a fertilized egg a new human being from implanting in the uterine wall. The pill does not always stop ovulation, but sometimes prevents implantation of the growing embryo. And now we have the RU-486 pill that aborts a new fetus, a new baby.


The fact is any woman that takes birth control can abort an unborn child.


The Physicians Desk Reference is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. It lists and explains the effects, benefits and risks of every medical product that can legally be prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests. This information is included in the PDR. Keep in mind while reading it that the term implantation, by definition always involves an already conceived human being. Therefore any agent which serves to prevent implantation functions as an abortifacient. This is the PDR's product information for ortho-Cept, as listed by Ortho, one of the largest manufacturers of the pill.

"Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus, which increases the difficulty of the sperm entry into the uterus, and changes in the endometrial which reduce the likelihood of implantation."

(Physicians Desk Reference (Montvale, NJ,: Medical Economics)


So what this says is that they reduce the likelihood of implantation. Syntex and Wyeth say the same thing about their pill. If you read in the tiny fine print at the bottom of your birth control instructions, you will be told that if you want more information about birth control pills ask your doctor, clinic or pharmacist. They also have a more technical leaflet called the Professional Labeling, which you can read which goes into detail about what the pill really does. The lengthier explanation you can also read in the PDR.


So to say they don't cause abortion is a false fact.
 
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FaithLikeARock

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Not responsive in the least. All you can do is dodge?

Because your response was responsive? A post that long and all you took out of it was a single statement to try and discredit me and now you're acting like I'm the one "not responding". Are we done here or are you going to offer an argument of value?
 
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FaithLikeARock

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Some people dont think abortion and birth control are related. They think they have nothing to do with one another. The facts show this is not the case, as some birth control are abortifacients....they cause early term abortions.

The IUD seems to prevent a fertilized egg a new human being from implanting in the uterine wall. The pill does not always stop ovulation, but sometimes prevents implantation of the growing embryo. And now we have the RU-486 pill that aborts a new fetus, a new baby.


The fact is any woman that takes birth control can abort an unborn child.


The Physicians Desk Reference is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. It lists and explains the effects, benefits and risks of every medical product that can legally be prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests. This information is included in the PDR. Keep in mind while reading it that the term implantation, by definition always involves an already conceived human being. Therefore any agent which serves to prevent implantation functions as an abortifacient. This is the PDR's product information for ortho-Cept, as listed by Ortho, one of the largest manufacturers of the pill.

"Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus, which increases the difficulty of the sperm entry into the uterus, and changes in the endometrial which reduce the likelihood of implantation."

(Physicians Desk Reference (Montvale, NJ,: Medical Economics)


So what this says is that they reduce the likelihood of implantation. Syntex and Wyeth say the same thing about their pill. If you read in the tiny fine print at the bottom of your birth control instructions, you will be told that if you want more information about birth control pills ask your doctor, clinic or pharmacist. They also have a more technical leaflet called the Professional Labeling, which you can read which goes into detail about what the pill really does. The lengthier explanation you can also read in the PDR.


So to say they don't cause abortion is a false fact.

To say something is a false fact is a demonstration of poor vocabulary.
 
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JadeTigress

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Some people dont think abortion and birth control are related. They think they have nothing to do with one another. The facts show this is not the case, as some birth control are abortifacients....they cause early term abortions.

The IUD seems to prevent a fertilized egg a new human being from implanting in the uterine wall. The pill does not always stop ovulation, but sometimes prevents implantation of the growing embryo. And now we have the RU-486 pill that aborts a new fetus, a new baby.


The fact is any woman that takes birth control can abort an unborn child.


The Physicians Desk Reference is the most frequently used reference book by physicians in America. It lists and explains the effects, benefits and risks of every medical product that can legally be prescribed. The Food and Drug Administration requires that each manufacturer provide accurate information on its products, based on scientific research and laboratory tests. This information is included in the PDR. Keep in mind while reading it that the term implantation, by definition always involves an already conceived human being. Therefore any agent which serves to prevent implantation functions as an abortifacient. This is the PDR's product information for ortho-Cept, as listed by Ortho, one of the largest manufacturers of the pill.

"Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include changes in the cervical mucus, which increases the difficulty of the sperm entry into the uterus, and changes in the endometrial which reduce the likelihood of implantation."

(Physicians Desk Reference (Montvale, NJ,: Medical Economics)


So what this says is that they reduce the likelihood of implantation. Syntex and Wyeth say the same thing about their pill. If you read in the tiny fine print at the bottom of your birth control instructions, you will be told that if you want more information about birth control pills ask your doctor, clinic or pharmacist. They also have a more technical leaflet called the Professional Labeling, which you can read which goes into detail about what the pill really does. The lengthier explanation you can also read in the PDR.


So to say they don't cause abortion is a false fact.

I'm a pharmacy technician. Just passed my certification test last month, actually (though I have more than a month's experience). I am familiar with the PDR.

You're right; 'implantation' is referring to the fertilized egg. However, if implantation is prevented, then there is nothing there to abort.

I can understand people who say that some birth control is wrong because it does interfere with implantation, for people who think that life begins immediately upon the fertilization of an egg.

But birth control is not an abortifacient (that's not to say that it never happens; everyone reacts to medication differently). An abortifacient specifically causes an abortion. And in order to abort, like I said before, there has to be something there for that medication to abort. Which means that the egg would have to have implanted.
 
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razeontherock

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Because your response was responsive? A post that long and all you took out of it was a single statement to try and discredit me and now you're acting like I'm the one "not responding". Are we done here or are you going to offer an argument of value?

"A post that long?" I quoted your entire post last time, just like I did this time.
 
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FaithLikeARock

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"A post that long?" I quoted your entire post last time, just like I did this time.

Most blatant lie I have ever seen.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7586179-12/

Look at that page. Look at the post you quoted from. You did not quote my entire post, not by a long shot. Unless you're talking about the time afterward, in which case sure. But that wasn't what I was talking about.
 
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razeontherock

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Most blatant lie I have ever seen.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7586179-12/

Look at that page. Look at the post you quoted from. You did not quote my entire post, not by a long shot. Unless you're talking about the time afterward, in which case sure. But that wasn't what I was talking about.

Your bickering is silly. Your link brings up a page in which you have one post, #
119, which I quoted no part of. My post you commented on refers to your post #125, which you can tell by clicking on the little blue arrow. No guesswork involved!

So you go from your horrid accusation to, "unless you're talking about the time afterward;" like nothing happened?!
 
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mdancin4theLord

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How so? I don't want abortions to happen, and I would prefer it if they didn't. How is that pro-abortion?

Because you still want them to be legal..so that others can kill. If you valued life...if you really thought abortion was that bad....you would not be pro-abortion/choice.
 
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Skaloop

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Because you still want them to be legal..so that others can kill. If you valued life...if you really thought abortion was that bad....you would not be pro-abortion/choice.

There are two bad things involved. Abortion and removing a woman's autonomy over her body. To me, the former is less objectionable than the latter, but neither is a good thing. I do think abortion is "that bad", which is why I am not pro-abortion. Just pro-choice. And I'm certainly far less pro-abortion than you, since I've never actually had one.
 
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