Why Abortion should never be Outlawed!! (an honest, personal eperience) TRUTH!!!!

[razeontherock]

Ok mdancin, people like this REALLY strengthen the argument abortion should be illegalized, period! Sheesh

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Ok mdancin, people like this REALLY strengthen the argument abortion should be illegalized, period! Sheesh

What argument is that?

 

[quatona]

Well killing is killing isnt it? Who are you or anyone else...to tell someone even as little as a fetus...that THEY THINK.....THINK, they would be better off dead than to face....things after they are born that MIGHT.....MIGHT happen.

As you say in a later post: fetusses have no voice. That´s why it´s inevitably up to us to make decisions on their behalf. That goes both ways.

 

[mpok1519]

Another fallacy.

There is absolutely no evidence that back alley coat/hanger/hoover abortions would skyrocket. And in fact, "skyrocket" is relative. There were a remarkably tiny number of deaths from botched abortions (maybe 100 but I think like 37) the year before abortion was legalized.

And this assumption is based on the ridiculous belief that all women who seek abortions would #1, still get pregnant if abortion was illegal, and #2, get an abortion if it was illegal.

Essentially, the assumption is that the women who seek abortion are so stupid and so criminal that the fact that abortion is ILLEGAL will make no difference to them, that they are THAT committed to getting one.

Not true.

Please provide the stats that show how the number of botched abortion deaths would skyrocket if abortions were illegal? You made the claim, you back it up.

threats of unenforceable laws don't hamper illegal activity.

 

[mpok1519]

What sort of pain is unmanageable? I've worked in a nursing home, I worked as a caseworker for SPD..I've never seen any pain that is unmanageable.

Existence is a big place. You'll never see, touch, or experience most of it.

Late stage cancer is pretty painful for a while before death...and they generally opt for morphine which renders them unconscious and often hastens their death by slowing their breathing.

And what if one wishes simply not to die that way?

Doctors have been helping people to die in this way since time began. There's no need to legalize murder to accomodate it.

Abortion accomodates adult euthanasia?

 

[mpok1519]

You obviously have not done research in this area.

You misinterpret my metaphors.

 

[good brother]

threats of unenforceable laws don't hamper illegal activity.

You're right. Might as well legalize all murder since it won't all be enforceable. Might as well let people steal without fear of being busted since we are not able to stop all thieves. Might as well tear down the speed limits since they will never catch all the speeders...on and on and on and on.... Whatever. Of course laws cut down on illegal activity. That's the whole premise behind having a justice system, is because we believe we can cut donw on illegal activities by having laws and law enforcers in place to stop those caught in illegal activities.


In Christ, GB

 

[mdancin4theLord]

Apology accepted. Picking a battle that can be won; i.e., not illegalization of abortion, =/= ignoring the issue. Picking a battle that can be won =/= failing to stand up for children both in and out of the womb.

Btw, I produced a TV show that aired "Silent Scream," circa 1986.

It is possible to have public funding removed from abortion. It is possible to have minor children who seek the procedure to need informed parents, if not parental consent. Even if the minor child can pay for it herself. Please stop to consider how much headway would be made with these measures! These battles could be won, short-term.

Attempting to have abortion illegalized merely mobilizes our opposition and inflames them.

Everything inflames them. Look at those lurking around here who are pro-choice....just digging the knife in. We have to look at both short term and long term goals. There are people working on both.

Look at how much money PP recieves from the government. They are in bed with the Democratic Party. We need pro-life Democrats to do something in that party. But the thing that would make the biggest difference...is if every Christian pastor in America would stand up in front of their congregation and address abortion, that it is sin against a holy God. The majority of women getting them claim to be Christian. They need to keep drilling this at their flocks, they should encourage peaceful demonstrations. You look at the Mega churches headed by pastors that do NOTHING FOR THE UNBORN, not even calling abortion sin.
Osteen and WArren...are basically silent on this issue and they have two of the largest Churches in America today. We need a massive movement demanding rights for the unborn. Maybe then things might change. But right now we have pastors who don't want to rock the boat, they don't want to loose tithers and hurt the women who might be sitting in the pews who have had abortions...so they say nothing.

Silent Scream was an excellent film that showed graphic images that I think need to be shown more today. I am all for putting a picture or a face to abortion. Most people are offended......good, I am all for that. Holocaust pictures show inhumanity...and abortion pictures do the same thing.

We need to support those who make films like this and show them and also those who work 24-7 to end abortion....like Janet Folger...Marck Crutcher, two people who I have worked with in the crusade to end abortion. They are awesome...we need more like them.

 

[razeontherock]

Silent Scream was an excellent film that showed graphic images that I think need to be shown more today. I am all for putting a picture or a face to abortion. Most people are offended...

Glad we understand each other better now, good to meet you!

When I produced the TV show airing Silent Scream, I was too busy to actually watch the film and listen to the voice over, but I did see the raw footage. I wouldn't say "the movie is actually good."

The raw footage was commissioned by then Pres Ronnie Ray-gun, who honestly wanted to find facts on if abortion is killing a baby or not. He got his clear results, and then promptly hid his face from the truth, that yes indeed, abortion kills living babies, who fight for their life, suffer, and die in an unimaginably horrible way. (Cause your children to pass through the fire, sacrificed to Molech, anyone?)

VP candidate Dan Quayle was involved in the early stages of causing this truth to re-surface. The movie Silent Scream does not do a good job of disseminating this information in a fair and balanced way, and therefore can be seen as hurting our cause. The actual research, is indisputable.

What is the current legal status of abortion past the first tri-mester?

 

[mdancin4theLord]

As you say in a later post: fetusses have no voice. That´s why it´s inevitably up to us to make decisions on their behalf. That goes both ways.

How many fetuses would want to die if asked? As many as people today who are dying because they are not perfect in appearance? How many poor people , handicapped, sick....depressed are killing themselves?

We have millions and millions of abortions happening daily around the world and in our own country. All of the fetuses would welcome being dismembered alive? LOL

34,598 suicides happened in America in 1997. More men than women committed suicide for all sorts of reason. So I guess if we kept killing those in the womb...we would have to kill more make fetuses and female, right?

American Indian and Alaska Natives had the highest incidents of suicide among their populations. So do we kill more fetuses there?

ARe these the fetuses that would say yea kill me its ok?

Everything I said here is the truth but ridiculous. To say....that being a voice for unborns....and that voice cries out...."kill me" is just morally baffling. What child wants to be dismembered alive?

Who has the right to think that a fetus would rather be done away with in abortion fashion and that they can make the call whether they live or die?

The voice, the only voice the unborn should hear is...one of kindness and compassion....a mothers soft and soothing voice to her little one in the womb. They should not hear the voice of the abortionist, or the one taking the money to pay for the abortion.

Just like the movie....that our friend on this forum, showed on his television show...........SILENT SCREAM.....that is what is being heard around the world. The silent scream of unborns....who have no choice.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

Glad we understand each other better now, good to meet you!

When I produced the TV show airing Silent Scream, I was too busy to actually watch the film and listen to the voice over, but I did see the raw footage. I wouldn't say "the movie is actually good."

The raw footage was commissioned by then Pres Ronnie Ray-gun, who honestly wanted to find facts on if abortion is killing a baby or not. He got his clear results, and then promptly hid his face from the truth, that yes indeed, abortion kills living babies, who fight for their life, suffer, and die in an unimaginably horrible way. (Cause your children to pass through the fire, sacrificed to Molech, anyone?)

VP candidate Dan Quayle was involved in the early stages of causing this truth to re-surface. The movie Silent Scream does not do a good job of disseminating this information in a fair and balanced way, and therefore can be seen as hurting our cause. The actual research, is indisputable.

What is the current legal status of abortion past the first tri-mester?

If the film did anything it was to shock people...make them aware of what was going on...putting a name and face to a cause. And if anyone knows what that face looks like its Nathanson. They should remake the film today because technology is better. I believe that for the most part it was an effective and important film that was shown at the time. It shows what most media prime time outlets will not show even today. Sad considering the images in this video were pretty accurate.

I help "Justice for All" set up at Arizona State, everytime they come. It is amazing to see and hear the comments from the students as they walk to classes and see the graphic pictures. Some feel so violated...I mean worse things are shown at the movies and on television...but when they see this they know really what they are seeing. The most slack comes from those who champion abortion of course and want it legal. They don't want images shown...for all the obvious reasons. Now it we were a group called Save the Whale or Baby Monkeys they would be the ones helping us hold the signs. Its ok to kill human babies...but touch a little animals and man the guns come out.

This is a group I work with. I also work with a group called Silent No More..

abortionno.org

 

[mdancin4theLord]

Yes, those are all wonderful reasons to have an abortion. Thanks for reminding us...

Well I cant reply to your post......or I would be issued yet another warning. I think I am walking on thin ice.

But I am sure you get what I am thinking your way.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Although you couldn't ask a lot of foetuses if they wanted to be aborted, because before the second trimester, they have the nervous system of a turnip.

 

[good brother]

Although you couldn't ask a lot of foetuses if they wanted to be aborted, because before the second trimester, they have the nervous system of a turnip.

They have a heart and heartbeat. It's a human heart inside a human being. Abortion is still murder.

If you were to kill someone who was mentally incapacitated without their consent, knowledge, permission, whatever- would that be murder? They would have you locked away so quickly your [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] would hurt from the jail door slamming shut on it!

By the way, your sig line? It is you who is without understanding.
In Christ, GB

 

[Ar Cosc]

They have a heart and heartbeat. It's a human heart inside a human being. Abortion is still murder.

It's not the heart that makes someone human, it's the brain and the rest of the nervous system. Without them, a foetus isn't a person, it's just something with the potential to become a person.

If you were to kill someone who was mentally incapacitated without their consent, knowledge, permission, whatever- would that be murder? They would have you locked away so quickly your [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] would hurt from the jail door slamming shut on it!

If someone was so severaly brain damaged that they had the cognitive function of an 8-week foetus, I think it is the right of the family to decide to let them die. We're not talking about people with Down Syndrome here.

By the way, your sig line? It is you who is without understanding.
In Christ, GB

It's just a quote from a footballer I like, it's not a claim of any great knowledge or wisdom on my part.

 

[good brother]

It's not the heart that makes someone human, it's the brain and the rest of the nervous system. Without them, a foetus isn't a person, it's just something with the potential to become a person.

So doing a frontal lobotomy on someone would preclude them from being a human and therefore making their murder acceptable? Think about your reasoning. All a murderer would have to do is to cut off oxygen to the brain long enough to make a person brain dead, that would be like aggrevated assault. Then they could kill them after they were brain dead and say it wasn't murder because there was no brain activity. Thus, they would not be guilty of murder, just assault. They do a few years and are out and about to do it again.

If someone was so severaly brain damaged that they had the cognitive function of an 8-week foetus, I think it is the right of the family to decide to let them die. We're not talking about people with Down Syndrome here.

What you fail to recognize is that an eight week old fetus will become a nine week old, then a ten week old, and eventually an adult. You are comparing someone who is permanently locked into a condition to someone who will increase their body weight and size and brain by millions of times by the time they travel though the birth canal.


Come to America sometime and destroy a bald eagle's egg. You will get fined and jailed. Though you can come to this same country, get a gal pregnant and take her down to a local abortion clinic, and you will get gov't assistance to kill hers and your offspring. Where did we go so horribly astray?

In Christ, GB

 

[razeontherock]

Although you couldn't ask a lot of foetuses if they wanted to be aborted, because before the second trimester, they have the nervous system of a turnip.

So abortion = pulling up a turnip, to you. You fail to recognize this is the ethics sub-forum? Or you merely fail to have any?

 

[razeontherock]

Come to America sometime and destroy a bald eagle's egg. You will get fined and jailed. Though you can come to this same country, get a gal pregnant and take her down to a local abortion clinic, and you will get gov't assistance to kill hers and your offspring. Where did we go so horribly astray?

In Christ, GB

I think a more apt description would be if I tear him from limb to limb, while he struggles his pathetic best to survive. Just to put things in perspective with an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Beechwell]

So doing a frontal lobotomy on someone would preclude them from being a human and therefore making their murder acceptable?

Frontal lobotomy no. But if you take enough of the brain that all higher functions expire (so at least the whole cerebral cortex, possibly a lot more), then yes, the remains would be no longer a person and killing it could not be murder (however the extended brain removal would have been murder).

Think about your reasoning. All a murderer would have to do is to cut off oxygen to the brain long enough to make a person brain dead, that would be like aggrevated assault.

Why whould that just be like aggravated assault? If the victim is and remains braindead, then it was at least manslaughter, if not murder.

What you fail to recognize is that an eight week old fetus will become a nine week old, then a ten week old, and eventually an adult. You are comparing someone who is permanently locked into a condition to someone who will increase their body weight and size and brain by millions of times by the time they travel though the birth canal.

Might become, yes. But isn't.

 

[SithDoughnut]

So abortion = pulling up a turnip, to you. You fail to recognize this is the ethics sub-forum? Or you merely fail to have any?

Do you realise that ethics are subjective? Or do you fail to recognise anyone else's views other than your own?

Seriously...