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Who is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by child of Jesus, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. WHO IS THE FOLLOWING PASSAGE REFERRING TO?

    Ezekiel 38:1-6
    The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you.
     
  2. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    Chief prince is a term that was also used in Daniel:


    12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
    13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
    14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
    15And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
    16And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
    17For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
    18Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
    19And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
    20Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


    Gabriel was speaking of angelic beings and the battle that they fight against each other.

    Eph 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.


    My best guess is that gog is satan, a fallen angelic being, that is connected to the kings of Russia.

    I would add that Ezek 38 and 39's gog invasion occurs when the Day of the Lord is beginning and the devil is just been cast down to the earth. Revelation 20 speaks of another gog invasion at the end of the millenium when satan has been loosed from being bound in an abyss for 1000 years. I would say that lends credence to the idea that gog refers to satan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  3. Dr.Strangelove

    Dr.Strangelove New Member

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  4. Zadok7000

    Zadok7000 Awake and Sober

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    Not to be a wiseguy, but the answer is Gog. Are you asking who he is?
     
  5. thank you! are those references to the same below?

    Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

    ~ child:wave:
     
  6. yes! that's what i'm asking.
    thanks zadok.
     
  7. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    Yes.

    Gog appears to be a reference to a spiritual being (fallen angel) that is over the land of Magog, like Gabriel mentioned in Daniel referring to the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece.
     
  8. Zadok7000

    Zadok7000 Awake and Sober

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    As pointed out above, the "chief prince" title in Daniel is important. The "prince" of Persia, Greece, Magog, power of the air, etc are all the same guy, IMO. Satan himself.
     
  9. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    I just realized, based on Gabriel's words in Daniel, that when these spiritual battles are occuring, earthly battles occur in those regions.

    So, when gog is stirred up, there is a heavenly battle going on and an earthly battle in the same region.

    That is most interesting in light of Revelation 12 when there is a battle in heaven and satan is cast down, where he proceeds to spew a flood (army) against the woman (Israel).
     
  10. Zadok7000

    Zadok7000 Awake and Sober

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    The flood is out of his mouth, hisdaughterjen. IE Lies.
     
  11. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    I can answer that.

    Scripturally, flood equates to armies, not lies.

    Examples in scripture:

    Isa 17:12Oh, the raging of many nations-- they rage like the raging sea! Oh, the uproar of the peoples-- they roar like the roaring of great waters!
    Isa 17:13Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale.


    Daniel 9:26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


    Dan 11:10His sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.

    Dan 11:40"At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.


    Nah 1:8but with an overwhelming flood he will make an end of Nineveh; he will pursue his foes into darkness.

    I know of no scripture that equates flood to lies.
     
  12. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    Given the timing of the gog invasion and destruction, Revelation 12 appears to confirm it.

    God is against gog, chief prince of mechech and tubal, who invade Israel. There is war in heaven, Michael casts out the devil who sends an army against Israel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  13. Zadok7000

    Zadok7000 Awake and Sober

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    I' m not debating a clone...
     
  14. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    I'm the one who pointed out that the flood is not lies, scripturally, but armies. So, when you can prove that the symbolic meaning of "flood" in scripture is lies, rejoin the debate. You will be most welcome! :hug:
     
  15. Dr.Strangelove

    Dr.Strangelove New Member

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    Hmmmm....interesting.

    So could the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal be an Earthly man? Or a man in an Earthly office/position?
     
  16. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    Daniel 10: 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.


    It looks to me like when there is an angelic battle, they are assigned to regions of earth. The kings of those regions appear to be influenced by the spiritual power over them.

    So, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal would be the spiritual power/being over that region that influences the king/kings of that region.

    That would be my best guess on the matter based on what Gabriel said. I do not know for sure.

    Based on this idea, when gog invades Israel, it appears to be the king of the region with/led by the evil spiritual power of the region, and all those whom they've influenced, invading.

    I do believe that gog (the chief prince of meshech and tubal) is satan and the "king" / region he influences at that time appears to be the leader of Russia (meshech, tubal) and a horde of Islamic peoples (persia, cush, put). The spiritual forces and the earthly forces intertwined, engaging in battle or invasion of Israel.

    God said in Ezekiel,
    17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

    This invasion by gog, the Northern army, is found in other prophets too, namely Joel. Joel appears to describe them as supernatural or having supernatural power as they invade:

    Joel 2:7They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

    8Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. 9They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

    This is where Revelation 12 (followed by 13)seems to coincide. There is war in heaven and Michael casts the devil and his angels down who then sends an army (flood) against the woman (Israel). That army is destroyed and God uses the elements to do so, followed by the devil then empowering the beast/antichrist who was just given a head wound but survived.

    It's interesting to think about and there's other ways to prove it correct.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2010
  17. hiJGhost

    i'm having a wee bit of trouble though because can we be SURE the other events and peeps you mention are actually GOG? one and the same?:pray:

    and: you figure that more or less (whether human or spirit), Gog is Iranian (persian)?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2010
  18. that's what i'm wondering...like what do prophecy teachers or the church fathers say?

    what does Scripture hint at?

    seems to be a man.

    i'm curious, because i have something i wanted to present but i need more input first.

    happy Christmas Doc!

    ~ child:clap:
     
  19. Jensghost

    Jensghost New Member

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    Ezekiel 38


    1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
    3And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
    4And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
    5Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
    6Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. 7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

    Gog is not persian. Persia will be with the armies of gog. It's interesting that God tells gog to be a guard to the armies that are with him.
     
  20. very cool!
    so where is the land of Magog that Gog comes from? is Gog the land of Magog actually a nation named Gog?

    what is that nation?

    *fascinated*

    ~ child
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2010
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