Who are the sons of the Kingdom?

[EmSw]

Do they belong to the kingdom of Christ? Are they sons of the devil? Tell us who you believe the sons of the Kingdom are?

Jesus told us this -

Matthew 13:38
The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

The reason I ask is because we find the following words of Jesus -

Matthew 8
11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Whoever you believe the sons of the Kingdom are, Jesus told us there are sons of the Kingdom who will be cast out into outer darkness. Why are these 'good seeds' cast out of the Kingdom into outer darkness?

We also find no one can enter the Kingdom unless they are converted and born again. Why are these converted, born again sons of the Kingdom cast out into outer darkness?

Jesus said this in Matthew 13 -

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Here again we see some are gathered OUT OF His Kingdom. The reason? Things that offend and THOSE WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

This is speaking of those who are IN HIS Kingdom, for no one can be cast out of His Kingdom unless they have first entered. It is when these workers of lawlessness are cast out that the righteous will shine forth as the sun in His Kingdom.

Jesus then told us, 'he who has ears to hear, let him hear'!

 

[Hieronymus]

I think the consensus is that in Matthew 8:11 it's the Jews that hear not, also translated as "subjects of the Kingdom" while in Matthew 13:38 it is about the good seeds who will be the actual sons of the Kingdom.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The phrase "sons of the kingdom" occurs only twice in Matthew, which were presented in the OP. It would seem "unseemly" to treat the 2 references as to believers in one verse and unbelievers in the other verse. And inconsistent. And since Matt 13:38 is clearly believing Jews, we must also understand that the sons of the kingdom in Matt 8 are also believing Jews.

The real issue is what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and "outer darkness" refer to. Most seem to think they refer to the suffering of being in hell. If that were true, then people who have been entered into the kingdom are being cast into hell. Or, eternal security is not true, and believers can lose salvation. So the subject is very serious indeed.

The phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" occurs 6 times in Matt.(8:11-12, 13:41-42, 49-50, 22:12-13, 24:50-51, 25:29-30). And of the 6 times, at least 4 refer to believers.

The phrase is a Middle Eastern expression of grief, which is much more uninhibited than in the West. In fact, mourners were hired for funerals to show sufficient dignity of the person who died. So they graphically and loudly demonstrated grief.

So Jesus would use this phrase in any kind of context where a very serious loss had occurred. So while it could be used in a context where people go to hell, it could also be appropriate in other contexts where serious losses of a spiritual nature have occurred.

We must be open to the possibility that at the Judgment Seat of Christ, an unfaithful believer could experience great grief. We know this from 1 Cor 3:15 from the phrase "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss". Which is followed by the guarantee that the believer will BE SAVED.

Also, John noted in 1 Jn 2:28, "My little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at His coming".

So, at the Judgment Seat, we will see both boldness or shame, based upon one's life of works.

The phrase "outer darkness" is mentioned 3 times in Matt.
8:12 - "but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

22:13 - “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

25:30 - “Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In Matt 8:12 the Lord is referring to a wedding banquet as part of the kingdom experience. And those "from east, west, and so on" refer to Gentiles, who sit down at that banquet with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other Jewish believers. However, certain Jews (sons of the kingdom) will not be allowed to sit down at that banquet, but will be expelled into the darkness outside the banquet. This darkness is a metaphor and a figure for the dark scene all around the brightly lighted banquet hall.

Keep in mind that 8:5-13 is about a Gentile Centurion who asked Jesus to heal one of his trusted servants. And Jesus marveled at his great faith when the Centurion told Him that He only needed to say the word and his servant would be healed after Jesus said He would come to the Centurion's home. That is why Jesus mentioned those from "east and west" coming to "the table" (the banquet). Jesus noted that the Gentile's faith was much greater than some of the sons of the kingdom.

Then, in 22 which specifically mentions a wedding banquet, the guest that was not properly dressed refers to one who was not prepared, meaning he didn't live a life "worthy", as the Bible commands in 3 places: Eph 4:1, Col 1;1 AND 1 Thess 2:12.

And Rev 3:4 speaks of the reward for those who obeyed the command.

Finally, Matt 8:12 in the Greek says "cast them out" (ekballo). Rather than having a violent negative overtone to it, the same word is used in James 2:25 of Rahab the harlot: after receiving the Jewish spies with peace, she "sent them out (ekballo) another way". Now, there is a sense of haste in the word, but not a violent negative overtone. And in Mark 1:12 we read that the Holy Spirit "drove" (ekballo) Jesus into the wilderness. Obviously, the Holy Spirit didn't force Jesus into the wilderness against His will. He was led there willingly. There are both violent and non-violent uses of the word.

So, in Matt 8:12, the sons of the kingdom had to leave the banquet for one reason or another. But there is no reason to assume the word in 8:12 connotes a violent event.

In both 22:13 and 25:30 the person is "bound hand and foot" and then "cast into the outer darkness". We know that no one will be "tied hand and foot" before being thrown into the lake of fire, or Rev 19 and 20 would have mentioned it.

So there is no reason to conclude that either 22:13 or 25:30 refer to being thrown into hell.

So, what do the passages on the "outer darkness" refer to? Being excluded from the banquet hall is a synonym for not co-reigning with Jesus Christ, the King.

Rom 8:17b - and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2 Tim 2:12 - If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

 

[EmSw]

The phrase "sons of the kingdom" occurs only twice in Matthew, which were presented in the OP. It would seem "unseemly" to treat the 2 references as to believers in one verse and unbelievers in the other verse. And inconsistent. And since Matt 13:38 is clearly believing Jews, we must also understand that the sons of the kingdom in Matt 8 are also believing Jews.

You are correct; no need to assume 'sons of the Kingdom' as unbelievers. But one thing I've noticed is your use of unbiblical assumptions. You have to make so many assumptions to make your belief work.

The real issue is what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and "outer darkness" refer to. Most seem to think they refer to the suffering of being in hell. If that were true, then people who have been entered into the kingdom are being cast into hell. Or, eternal security is not true, and believers can lose salvation. So the subject is very serious indeed.

Very serious indeed! I think we should see if we find anywhere in the Bible where 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' are mentioned in connection with heaven, abundant life, heavenly joy, eternal life, or being born again.

Nope, I can't find any, can you?

The phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" occurs 6 times in Matt.(8:11-12, 13:41-42, 49-50, 22:12-13, 24:50-51, 25:29-30). And of the 6 times, at least 4 refer to believers.

The phrase is a Middle Eastern expression of grief, which is much more uninhibited than in the West. In fact, mourners were hired for funerals to show sufficient dignity of the person who died. So they graphically and loudly demonstrated grief.

Why would there be weeping in the Kingdom? All tears are wiped away, not shed uncontrollably. You make the Kingdom of heaven into a torture chamber, you know, weeping, gnashing of teeth, being tied hand and foot, and thrown into outer darkness.

So Jesus would use this phrase in any kind of context where a very serious loss had occurred. So while it could be used in a context where people go to hell, it could also be appropriate in other contexts where serious losses of a spiritual nature have occurred.

Going to hell is the most serious spiritual loss. I don't think anyone will weep, gnash teeth, be tied hand and foot, and cast into outer darkness in connection with loss of rewards. This is an assumption you make.

We must be open to the possibility that at the Judgment Seat of Christ, an unfaithful believer could experience great grief. We know this from 1 Cor 3:15 from the phrase "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss". Which is followed by the guarantee that the believer will BE SAVED.

We've been over this before. Works by an individual are not burned, but rather judged. What is burned is what is cast into the fire.

Losing rewards will not give cause great grief to anyone. To lose their reward, they will have to be cast out of the kingdom, tied hand and foot, and thrown into outer darkness.

Losing your salvation will cause great, unspeakable grief to those who thought they were saved. I can guarantee you will be weeping, gnashing your teeth, and cast into outer darkness should you lose your salvation. You will even blame and curse God should that happen.

Also, John noted in 1 Jn 2:28, "My little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at His coming".

So, at the Judgment Seat, we will see both boldness or shame, based upon one's life of works.

Being ashamed comes from not abiding in Him. What greater shame is there, thinking and telling others you were saved, but yet, bound hand and foot and thrown into outer darkness (hell), where no light exists?

The phrase "outer darkness" is mentioned 3 times in Matt.
8:12 - "but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

22:13 - “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

25:30 - “Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

First, outer darkness is a place, just as heaven is. What does darkness represent?
Jesus? Nope, He is Light.
John 12:46
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

The Kingdom? Nope, we have been delivered from darkness.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Darkness has absolutely nothing to do with eternal life...NOTHING!

In Matt 8:12 the Lord is referring to a wedding banquet as part of the kingdom experience. And those "from east, west, and so on" refer to Gentiles, who sit down at that banquet with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other Jewish believers. However, certain Jews (sons of the kingdom) will not be allowed to sit down at that banquet, but will be expelled into the darkness outside the banquet. This darkness is a metaphor and a figure for the dark scene all around the brightly lighted banquet hall.

A metaphor for the 'dark scene all around the brightly lighted banquet hall'. Wow, what an assumption; you are full of them. I'm sure many here will snicker with me at this assumption. And I thought I heard it all. I wonder who else believes this. Does anyone believe this?

Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

I don't think being cast out into outer darkness would include peace and joy.

Keep in mind that 8:5-13 is about a Gentile Centurion who asked Jesus to heal one of his trusted servants. And Jesus marveled at his great faith when the Centurion told Him that He only needed to say the word and his servant would be healed after Jesus said He would come to the Centurion's home. That is why Jesus mentioned those from "east and west" coming to "the table" (the banquet). Jesus noted that the Gentile's faith was much greater than some of the sons of the kingdom.

So having great faith will keep you from being cast out into outer darkness? Why not believe what Jesus said will cast you out? That would be workers of iniquity!

Then, in 22 which specifically mentions a wedding banquet, the guest that was not properly dressed refers to one who was not prepared, meaning he didn't live a life "worthy", as the Bible commands in 3 places: Eph 4:1, Col 1;1 AND 1 Thess 2:12.

And Rev 3:4 speaks of the reward for those who obeyed the command.

Being cast from the wedding banquet does not mean loss of reward. Care to provide scripture which mentions the supper as a reward?

In Matthew 22:8, those invited were not worthy and did not enter the wedding.

Finally, Matt 8:12 in the Greek says "cast them out" (ekballo). Rather than having a violent negative overtone to it, the same word is used in James 2:25 of Rahab the harlot: after receiving the Jewish spies with peace, she "sent them out (ekballo) another way". Now, there is a sense of haste in the word, but not a violent negative overtone. And in Mark 1:12 we read that the Holy Spirit "drove" (ekballo) Jesus into the wilderness. Obviously, the Holy Spirit didn't force Jesus into the wilderness against His will. He was led there willingly. There are both violent and non-violent uses of the word.

They are cast out of the kingdom, and they are cast into a furnace of fire. Being cast out of the Kingdom means they are no longer a part of it.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

So, in Matt 8:12, the sons of the kingdom had to leave the banquet for one reason or another. But there is no reason to assume the word in 8:12 connotes a violent event.

We know the reason; why do you not believe it?

In both 22:13 and 25:30 the person is "bound hand and foot" and then "cast into the outer darkness". We know that no one will be "tied hand and foot" before being thrown into the lake of fire, or Rev 19 and 20 would have mentioned it.

Perhaps you can tell us how they end up in the lake of fire. Are they hung upside down? Are they led down stairs? Do they jump into the fire? Are they pushed into the fire? Lack of facts does not exclude them.

So there is no reason to conclude that either 22:13 or 25:30 refer to being thrown into hell.

There's no reason to conclude they are just cast into the 'outer darkness' of the brightly-lit wedding building.

So, what do the passages on the "outer darkness" refer to? Being excluded from the banquet hall is a synonym for not co-reigning with Jesus Christ, the King.

Please stop with your assumptions. Faith does not come by assumptions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are correct; no need to assume 'sons of the Kingdom' as unbelievers. But one thing I've noticed is your use of unbiblical assumptions. You have to make so many assumptions to make your belief work.

Very serious indeed! I think we should see if we find anywhere in the Bible where 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' are mentioned in connection with heaven, abundant life, heavenly joy, eternal life, or being born again.

Nope, I can't find any, can you?

Why would there be weeping in the Kingdom? All tears are wiped away, not shed uncontrollably. You make the Kingdom of heaven into a torture chamber, you know, weeping, gnashing of teeth, being tied hand and foot, and thrown into outer darkness.

Going to hell is the most serious spiritual loss. I don't think anyone will weep, gnash teeth, be tied hand and foot, and cast into outer darkness in connection with loss of rewards. This is an assumption you make.

We've been over this before. Works by an individual are not burned, but rather judged. What is burned is what is cast into the fire.

Losing rewards will not give cause great grief to anyone. To lose their reward, they will have to be cast out of the kingdom, tied hand and foot, and thrown into outer darkness.

Losing your salvation will cause great, unspeakable grief to those who thought they were saved. I can guarantee you will be weeping, gnashing your teeth, and cast into outer darkness should you lose your salvation. You will even blame and curse God should that happen.

Being ashamed comes from not abiding in Him. What greater shame is there, thinking and telling others you were saved, but yet, bound hand and foot and thrown into outer darkness (hell), where no light exists?

First, outer darkness is a place, just as heaven is. What does darkness represent?
Jesus? Nope, He is Light.
John 12:46
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

The Kingdom? Nope, we have been delivered from darkness.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Darkness has absolutely nothing to do with eternal life...NOTHING!

A metaphor for the 'dark scene all around the brightly lighted banquet hall'. Wow, what an assumption; you are full of them. I'm sure many here will snicker with me at this assumption. And I thought I heard it all. I wonder who else believes this. Does anyone believe this?

Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

I don't think being cast out into outer darkness would include peace and joy.

So having great faith will keep you from being cast out into outer darkness? Why not believe what Jesus said will cast you out? That would be workers of iniquity!

Being cast from the wedding banquet does not mean loss of reward. Care to provide scripture which mentions the supper as a reward?

In Matthew 22:8, those invited were not worthy and did not enter the wedding.

They are cast out of the kingdom, and they are cast into a furnace of fire. Being cast out of the Kingdom means they are no longer a part of it.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We know the reason; why do you not believe it?

Perhaps you can tell us how they end up in the lake of fire. Are they hung upside down? Are they led down stairs? Do they jump into the fire? Are they pushed into the fire? Lack of facts does not exclude them.

There's no reason to conclude they are just cast into the 'outer darkness' of the brightly-lit wedding building.

Please stop with your assumptions. Faith does not come by assumptions.

Thank you for your unsubstantiated opinions.

But rather than just give personal opinions, how about taking each point and refuting it from Scripture. I am not interested in responding to a very long post of opinion.

My post was reasonable and fits the context of the verse and history. Those who disagree need to show HOW and WHY it wasn't reasonable and doesn't fit the context.

Not just a long opinion of disagreement.

 

[EmSw]

Thank you for your unsubstantiated opinions.

But rather than just give personal opinions, how about taking each point and refuting it from Scripture. I am not interested in responding to a very long post of opinion.

I would refute it from scripture, but I just can't find where the sons of the kingdom are tied hand and foot, cast out of the kingdom into a furnace of fire, and then cast into the outer darkness of a brightly-lit wedding hall. I would have to be a silly man to refute such a silly assumption. I don't live in a free-grace, make-believe world.

Maybe you want to try again to tell us what 'outer darkness' is, and this time use scripture. Or else, we have to believe the children of darkness are those who are outside in the dark of a wedding hall. Or is consistency one of your weaknesses?

Well let's see what Jesus said about darkness.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Let's see, the light has come into the world, but these sons of the kingdom must love darkness rather than light, or else they wouldn't be tied up in a furnace of fire, in the outer darkness out of a brightly-lit wedding hall.

Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

If these sons of the kingdom have been delivered from the power of darkness, why in the world are they back into darkness? Why would they be cast out of a wedding? Why would they be cast out of the kingdom of the Son?

BECAUSE THEIR DEEDS WERE EVIL! The answer is as close as your nose. Darkness ALWAYS has reference to evil...ALWAYS!

I could go on about darkness, but your convinced it means in the dark of a brightly-lit wedding hall.

My post was reasonable and fits the context of the verse and history. Those who disagree need to show HOW and WHY it wasn't reasonable and doesn't fit the context.

Not just a long opinion of disagreement.

Reasonable? This free-grace thing has you living in a make-believe world.

I would like to hear from other eternal security people what they think 'cast out of the kingdom into outer darkness' means. I would like to hear from someone who will use scripture for their reasoning, and not a fairy tale you believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I would refute it from scripture, but I just can't find where the sons of the kingdom are tied hand and foot, cast out of the kingdom into a furnace of fire, and then cast into the outer darkness of a brightly-lit wedding hall.

The real reason you're unable to refute anything I've posted is that there are NO verses that tell us that those who are cast into the lake of fire, or even hell, before the lake of fire, are tied hand and foot. So there is no basis for taking being tied hand and foot as what happens to those who end up in the lake of fire.

I would have to be a silly man to refute such a silly assumption. I don't live in a free-grace, make-believe world.

Correct about your not being "free grace". But the Bible clearly teaches that grace is NOT EARNED, so your views are in direct opposition to Scripture.

Second, what is make-believe is the notion that one can lose God's salvation, since there are NO VERSES that state such a thing. So the notion of loss of salvation is totally made up.

I could go on about darkness, but your convinced it means in the dark of a brightly-lit wedding hall.

My post was clear enough that there is no excuse for such a silly remark. In fact, I contrasted being INSIDE of the banquet hall, in which the feast would have been AT NIGHT, with being sent outside the banquet hall, where it WOULD HAVE BEEN DARK.

Reasonable? This free-grace thing has you living in a make-believe world.

The meaning of grace has completely passed you by.

I would like to hear from other eternal security people what they think 'cast out of the kingdom into outer darkness' means. I would like to hear from someone who will use scripture for their reasoning, and not a fairy tale you believe.

As I challenged in my previous post, refute my comments from Scripture, which you failed to do.

Again, all that was done is give more opinion and disagreement, but NO SUBSTANCE on why or how my view is wrong.

If your view of the phrase "outer darkness" is correct, why aren't there any verses to support it?

However, all this discussion of the outer darkness is missing the issue of this thread, which is about the sons of the kingdom.

Care to focus again on your own thread's subject?

 

[Job8]

Do they belong to the kingdom of Christ?

The sons of the Kingdom are also the sons of God, so they certainly belong to the Kingdom of Christ..

 

[EmSw]

The real reason you're unable to refute anything I've posted is that there are NO verses that tell us that those who are cast into the lake of fire, or even hell, before the lake of fire, are tied hand and foot. So there is no basis for taking being tied hand and foot as what happens to those who end up in the lake of fire.

Would you like to explain what tied hand and foot means? Do you think it might mean to be bound? Or do you think it means to to be tied up with a wedding bouquet? Or maybe tied up with the bride's train?

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

We actually do have a verse which says the tares are bound before being burned. I don't see anything about the darkness of a wedding hall in that verse, do you?

In which fire do you think these tares are burnt? Do you think they aren't headed to the lake of fire?

Also notice the wheat is gathered into His barn, not cast out of His kingdom into outer darkness.

Correct about your not being "free grace". But the Bible clearly teaches that grace is NOT EARNED, so your views are in direct opposition to Scripture.

Getting off the subject. Stay focused.

Second, what is make-believe is the notion that one can lose God's salvation, since there are NO VERSES that state such a thing. So the notion of loss of salvation is totally made up.

The sons of the kingdom cast into outer darkness is certainly speaking of loss of salvation, not tossed outside of a brightly-lit wedding hall.

My post was clear enough that there is no excuse for such a silly remark. In fact, I contrasted being INSIDE of the banquet hall, in which the feast would have been AT NIGHT, with being sent outside the banquet hall, where it WOULD HAVE BEEN DARK.

This is not in the Bible; did the free-grace theologians tell you to believe this?

The meaning of grace has completely passed you by.

Your free grace has completely passed me by, and I heartily said goodbye to it.

As I challenged in my previous post, refute my comments from Scripture, which you failed to do.

Again, all that was done is give more opinion and disagreement, but NO SUBSTANCE on why or how my view is wrong.

If your view of the phrase "outer darkness" is correct, why aren't there any verses to support it?

You want me to refute with scripture your make-believe stories? Let's see you refute Little Red Riding Hood with scripture.

I would like you to provide 'darkness' with any notion of salvation. You can't and you know it, so you have to make up this story about a brightly-lit wedding hall.

However, all this discussion of the outer darkness is missing the issue of this thread, which is about the sons of the kingdom.

Care to focus again on your own thread's subject?

You still haven't commented on being cast into a furnace of fire.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
...
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Notice these will be gathered OUT OF HIS KINGDOM. You still haven't said who is able to enter His kingdom. Maybe Aesop can help you out here.

 

[EmSw]

The sons of the Kingdom are also the sons of God, so they certainly belong to the Kingdom of Christ..

Thank you Job8.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Would you like to explain what tied hand and foot means? Do you think it might mean to be bound? Or do you think it means to to be tied up with a wedding bouquet? Or maybe tied up with the bride's train?

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

We actually do have a verse which says the tares are bound before being burned. I don't see anything about the darkness of a wedding hall in that verse, do you?

In which fire do you think these tares are burnt? Do you think they aren't headed to the lake of fire?

Also notice the wheat is gathered into His barn, not cast out of His kingdom into outer darkness.



Getting off the subject. Stay focused.



The sons of the kingdom cast into outer darkness is certainly speaking of loss of salvation, not tossed outside of a brightly-lit wedding hall.



This is not in the Bible; did the free-grace theologians tell you to believe this?



Your free grace has completely passed me by, and I heartily said goodbye to it.



You want me to refute with scripture your make-believe stories? Let's see you refute Little Red Riding Hood with scripture.

I would like you to provide 'darkness' with any notion of salvation. You can't and you know it, so you have to make up this story about a brightly-lit wedding hall.



You still haven't commented on being cast into a furnace of fire.

Matthew 13
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
...
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Notice these will be gathered OUT OF HIS KINGDOM. You still haven't said who is able to enter His kingdom. Maybe Aesop can help you out here.

Since you dodged my questions, why should there be any more discussion between us?

 

[EmSw]

Since you dodged my questions, why should there be any more discussion between us?

Fairy tales will not stand against the truth. Have the free-grace group not given you any answers to what the furnace of fire is? Have they not given you answers about who is gathered and cast out of His kingdom?

Let's hope and pray you are not one of those tied hand and foot and cast out into the outer darkness of a brightly-lit wedding hall, my friend.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Since you dodged my questions, why should there be any more discussion between us?"

Fairy tales will not stand against the truth. Have the free-grace group not given you any answers to what the furnace of fire is? Have they not given you answers about who is gathered and cast out of His kingdom?

So, I have to repeat myself again. Since you dodge my questions, why should there be any more discussion? I know what the fire refers to. But you don't want to answer my questions.

Let's hope and pray you are not one of those tied hand and foot and cast out into the outer darkness of a brightly-lit wedding hall, my friend.

This is a warning to all believers to persevere, so they WILL participate in the reward of being in the wedding hall at the wedding supper of the Lamb. Rev 19:9

 

[EmSw]

I said this:
"Since you dodged my questions, why should there be any more discussion between us?"

So, I have to repeat myself again. Since you dodge my questions, why should there be any more discussion? I know what the fire refers to. But you don't want to answer my questions.

This is a warning to all believers to persevere, so they WILL participate in the reward of being in the wedding hall at the wedding supper of the Lamb. Rev 19:9

Again, you provide no scriptures to back what you say. That's all anyone needs to know.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, you provide no scriptures to back what you say. That's all anyone needs to know.

Why would there be Scripture in my question, which you keep dodging?

But again, all this is nothing more than a continued strategy of dodging my question.

 

[EmSw]

Why would there be Scripture in my question, which you keep dodging?

But again, all this is nothing more than a continued strategy of dodging my question.

Be on your way.

 

[Deep Truth]

The phrase "sons of the kingdom" occurs only twice in Matthew, which were presented in the OP. It would seem "unseemly" to treat the 2 references as to believers in one verse and unbelievers in the other verse. And inconsistent. And since Matt 13:38 is clearly believing Jews, we must also understand that the sons of the kingdom in Matt 8 are also believing Jews.

The real issue is what "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and "outer darkness" refer to. Most seem to think they refer to the suffering of being in hell. If that were true, then people who have been entered into the kingdom are being cast into hell. Or, eternal security is not true, and believers can lose salvation. So the subject is very serious indeed.

The phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" occurs 6 times in Matt.(8:11-12, 13:41-42, 49-50, 22:12-13, 24:50-51, 25:29-30). And of the 6 times, at least 4 refer to believers.

The phrase is a Middle Eastern expression of grief, which is much more uninhibited than in the West. In fact, mourners were hired for funerals to show sufficient dignity of the person who died. So they graphically and loudly demonstrated grief.

So Jesus would use this phrase in any kind of context where a very serious loss had occurred. So while it could be used in a context where people go to hell, it could also be appropriate in other contexts where serious losses of a spiritual nature have occurred.

We must be open to the possibility that at the Judgment Seat of Christ, an unfaithful believer could experience great grief. We know this from 1 Cor 3:15 from the phrase "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss". Which is followed by the guarantee that the believer will BE SAVED.

Also, John noted in 1 Jn 2:28, "My little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at His coming".

So, at the Judgment Seat, we will see both boldness or shame, based upon one's life of works.

The phrase "outer darkness" is mentioned 3 times in Matt.
8:12 - "but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

22:13 - “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

25:30 - “Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In Matt 8:12 the Lord is referring to a wedding banquet as part of the kingdom experience. And those "from east, west, and so on" refer to Gentiles, who sit down at that banquet with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other Jewish believers. However, certain Jews (sons of the kingdom) will not be allowed to sit down at that banquet, but will be expelled into the darkness outside the banquet. This darkness is a metaphor and a figure for the dark scene all around the brightly lighted banquet hall.

Keep in mind that 8:5-13 is about a Gentile Centurion who asked Jesus to heal one of his trusted servants. And Jesus marveled at his great faith when the Centurion told Him that He only needed to say the word and his servant would be healed after Jesus said He would come to the Centurion's home. That is why Jesus mentioned those from "east and west" coming to "the table" (the banquet). Jesus noted that the Gentile's faith was much greater than some of the sons of the kingdom.

Then, in 22 which specifically mentions a wedding banquet, the guest that was not properly dressed refers to one who was not prepared, meaning he didn't live a life "worthy", as the Bible commands in 3 places: Eph 4:1, Col 1;1 AND 1 Thess 2:12.

And Rev 3:4 speaks of the reward for those who obeyed the command.

Finally, Matt 8:12 in the Greek says "cast them out" (ekballo). Rather than having a violent negative overtone to it, the same word is used in James 2:25 of Rahab the harlot: after receiving the Jewish spies with peace, she "sent them out (ekballo) another way". Now, there is a sense of haste in the word, but not a violent negative overtone. And in Mark 1:12 we read that the Holy Spirit "drove" (ekballo) Jesus into the wilderness. Obviously, the Holy Spirit didn't force Jesus into the wilderness against His will. He was led there willingly. There are both violent and non-violent uses of the word.

So, in Matt 8:12, the sons of the kingdom had to leave the banquet for one reason or another. But there is no reason to assume the word in 8:12 connotes a violent event.

In both 22:13 and 25:30 the person is "bound hand and foot" and then "cast into the outer darkness". We know that no one will be "tied hand and foot" before being thrown into the lake of fire, or Rev 19 and 20 would have mentioned it.

So there is no reason to conclude that either 22:13 or 25:30 refer to being thrown into hell.

So, what do the passages on the "outer darkness" refer to? Being excluded from the banquet hall is a synonym for not co-reigning with Jesus Christ, the King.

Rom 8:17b - and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

2 Tim 2:12 - If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

When Jesus said the "sons of the kingdom" cast into outer darkness are the good seed, he reveals they are the saints. But what happens to these saints is the mysterious question that needs to be answered.

In the study of "sons of the kingdom" I examine the scriptures that explain what happens to these saints when feast of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob begins at the end of the age.

Who are the sons of the kingdom cast into outer darkness?

In the following articles I discuss the mystery of the soon coming rapture of the saints.
Why will the first be last, and the last first?
Why are many called to the wedding banquet but few are chosen?
Will you be raptured in the first, second or third watch of the night?

In these articles I examine the scriptures that seem to be pointing to the years of 2031 to 2038 for the tribulation.
Is the year when the tribulation ends written in scripture?
Part 2, 2 days, 7th hour, 38
Part 3, 2-38
Part 4, Gen 14:14, 17:17, Ex 7:7, John 5:5
Part 5, Psalms 83 & 90
Part 6, Isaac's birth from Sarah at 90
Part 7, Isaac's birth from Sarah at 90

The Ominous Sign of Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033
Four Blood Moons in 2032 and 2033 Part 2, 85 Priests are put to death
Israel's historic second Passover will be fulfilled in the last year of the Tribulation

Joseph in prison "two whole years" is prophetic for a 2,000 year gospel age
21 possible examples for a 2,000 year gospel age

Rachel after 7 years of barrenness gave birth to Joseph when Jacob was 90
The 12 sons of Jacob, symbolic for Old and New Covenant Israel

4 Prophetic stories reveal a 2,000 year gospel age followed by the tribulation
The Tabernacle reveals the age of the Law, the age of Grace and the Millennium

Why did God want to kill Moses when he lodged on his way to set Israel free from slavery to Pharaoh?
Why did the blind man see men like trees walking when Jesus touched him?

Why was Jacob called Israel when he struggled with God?
When will unrighteous Jacob be called Israel?

Why is the Feast of Trumpets in the 7th month 1st day to the 10th day?
What does the disciples catch of 153 fish represent?