Which comes first, Regeneration or Repentance?

[RobertZ]

Im confused by this right now, so many people say regeneration comes first then the Bible says repent and be converted. So which comes first?

 

[jmacvols]

Im confused by this right now, so many people say regeneration comes first then the Bible says repent and be converted. So which comes first?

You can't go wrong by going with what the bible says.

 

[RobertZ]

You can't go wrong by going with what the bible says.

Oh I agree with that believe me. Its just that you always hear so many different things from different people.

Repentance simply means to have a change of mind about sin correct? So do we change our minds about sin before God saves us?

If I want to be saved but say God has pointed something out in my life that is an Idol will he not save me until I get rid of that object? And if I did get rid of the Object first then wouldn't that be like me saying that I earned my salvation?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Im confused by this right now, so many people say regeneration comes first then the Bible says repent and be converted. So which comes first?

Straightforward easy question.

Not so easy an answer.

It honestly depends on where we are starting from.

Baptism is the beginning of regeneration.

If you were baptised as an infant there was no repentance involved.

So regeneration began first.

If we are brought into the Church as adults then repentance and confession are required before Baptism. In this case repentance comes before regeneration.

Forgive me...

 

[rojoloco]

There are 2 basic schools of thought. One is that you must believe in order to be saved. The other (which I am a part of) is that it is impossible to believe unless you have already been regenerated (a.k.a. saved) and at that very instant, you believe. Here is a lesson I gave just 2 weeks ago on the subject.

Three Simple Words

I want to start out tonight by asking a question. I’m just going to mention three simple words and I want you to put them in order for me. The words are:

1) Grace
2) Faith
3) Regeneration

Ask congregation to think about what each word means and the order they would place them in.

In my personal experience, most people place them in the order of grace, faith, and then regeneration. The reasoning is that God must first give us grace but then we choose whether to accept His gift before any regeneration can occur. This is a false doctrine that has infiltrated the Church.

But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Grace is completely God’s doing. It is His gift to us, as Christians. God is a gracious God.

But You, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness and truth.

He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.

Ephesians 2:8 tells us that we are saved through faith by grace. Grace has to take place before any faith can.

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

God showered His grace upon us before the foundation of the world. Before anything ever was, He had a plan. Part of that plan was to call the vessels of mercy to Himself. Even while we were still enemies of God, He showed His love for us and lavished us with grace

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

The fact that grace comes first is not usually the part that confuses people. It is the proper order of faith and regeneration that gets sticky. As I have already stated, this is not the correct order at all.

God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who understands,
Who seeks after God.
Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

First of all, it is impossible for one to choose God. As I said in a sermon last deployment, before salvation, we serve the dominion of Satan.

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God

We are at war with God and hate Him.

For everyone who does evil hates the Light

Nobody chooses the enemy. Even the most infamous traitors in American history were not serving the enemy. They may have been OUR enemy, but they were not THEIR enemy. Whether it was money, allegiance, or some other common bond, our enemy had become their ally. In the same way, nobody who chooses God is an enemy of God at the time. In order for one to choose God, a change must first occur. There must be a common bond. That common bond is the Holy Spirit.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

We see this verse speaking of the natural man. Another phrase used to identify this type of person is carnal man. The carnal man is a man of his own desires. He is a man at war with God. He is the unregenerate man bound by the chains of sin who still serves the dominion of Satan. Scripture tells us plainly that this man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Here we see a new kind of person being introduced. This is the regenerate man. This man has been set free of the chains of sin. He has turned his eyes to the Light (Acts 26:18). He has been renewed by the Holy Spirit.

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

The Holy Spirit does not reside in the carnal man. The Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate man. Our bodies are the very dwelling place of the Holy Spirit; of God. Having the Holy Spirit is synonymous with being saved. It is utterly impossible for a man to be saved without the Holy Spirit. It is equally as impossible for a man’s body to be the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit if he has not been regenerated. As a result, there is no way faith can come before regeneration.

First, the grace of God is poured out to us. This occurred before the foundation of the world. Next, in God’s timing, we are washed anew and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. At this time, we become a new creature in Christ. We now possess the ability to understand the things of the Spirit because the Spirit resides within us. Lastly, faith occurs. It is only after grace and regeneration that one can truly have faith in God. Of course, this means the “choice” we made was not really our own but rather an irresistible calling of God Almighty as He had already changed our very nature and desires. I am thankful for this because if it were up to me and my own works (a choice is technically a work as it is something we are doing), I would be left with nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) and a lack of Christ.

 

[rojoloco]

There are 2 basic schools of thought. One is that you must believe in order to be saved. The other (which I am a part of) is that it is impossible to believe unless you have already been regenerated (a.k.a. saved) and at that very instant, you believe. Here is a lesson I gave just 2 weeks ago on the subject.

Three Simple Words

I want to start out tonight by asking a question. I’m just going to mention three simple words and I want you to put them in order for me. The words are:

1) Grace
2) Faith
3) Regeneration

Ask congregation to think about what each word means and the order they would place them in.

In my personal experience, most people place them in the order of grace, faith, and then regeneration. The reasoning is that God must first give us grace but then we choose whether to accept His gift before any regeneration can occur. This is a false doctrine that has infiltrated the Church.

But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Grace is completely God’s doing. It is His gift to us, as Christians. God is a gracious God.

But You, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness and truth.

He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.

Ephesians 2:8 tells us that we are saved through faith by grace. Grace has to take place before any faith can.

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

God showered His grace upon us before the foundation of the world. Before anything ever was, He had a plan. Part of that plan was to call the vessels of mercy to Himself. Even while we were still enemies of God, He showed His love for us and lavished us with grace

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

The fact that grace comes first is not usually the part that confuses people. It is the proper order of faith and regeneration that gets sticky. As I have already stated, this is not the correct order at all.

God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who understands,
Who seeks after God.
Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

First of all, it is impossible for one to choose God. As I said in a sermon last deployment, before salvation, we serve the dominion of Satan.

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God

We are at war with God and hate Him.

For everyone who does evil hates the Light

Nobody chooses the enemy. Even the most infamous traitors in American history were not serving the enemy. They may have been OUR enemy, but they were not THEIR enemy. Whether it was money, allegiance, or some other common bond, our enemy had become their ally. In the same way, nobody who chooses God is an enemy of God at the time. In order for one to choose God, a change must first occur. There must be a common bond. That common bond is the Holy Spirit.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

We see this verse speaking of the natural man. Another phrase used to identify this type of person is carnal man. The carnal man is a man of his own desires. He is a man at war with God. He is the unregenerate man bound by the chains of sin who still serves the dominion of Satan. Scripture tells us plainly that this man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Here we see a new kind of person being introduced. This is the regenerate man. This man has been set free of the chains of sin. He has turned his eyes to the Light (Acts 26:18). He has been renewed by the Holy Spirit.

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

The Holy Spirit does not reside in the carnal man. The Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate man. Our bodies are the very dwelling place of the Holy Spirit; of God. Having the Holy Spirit is synonymous with being saved. It is utterly impossible for a man to be saved without the Holy Spirit. It is equally as impossible for a man’s body to be the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit if he has not been regenerated. As a result, there is no way faith can come before regeneration.

First, the grace of God is poured out to us. This occurred before the foundation of the world. Next, in God’s timing, we are washed anew and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. At this time, we become a new creature in Christ. We now possess the ability to understand the things of the Spirit because the Spirit resides within us. Lastly, faith occurs. It is only after grace and regeneration that one can truly have faith in God. Of course, this means the “choice” we made was not really our own but rather an irresistible calling of God Almighty as He had already changed our very nature and desires. I am thankful for this because if it were up to me and my own works (a choice is technically a work as it is something we are doing), I would be left with nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) and a lack of Christ.

 

[Rhamiel]

There are 2 basic schools of thought. One is that you must believe in order to be saved. The other (which I am a part of) is that it is impossible to believe unless you have already been regenerated (a.k.a. saved) and at that very instant, you believe. Here is a lesson I gave just 2 weeks ago on the subject.

Three Simple Words

I want to start out tonight by asking a question. I’m just going to mention three simple words and I want you to put them in order for me. The words are:

1) Grace
2) Faith
3) Regeneration

Ask congregation to think about what each word means and the order they would place them in.

In my personal experience, most people place them in the order of grace, faith, and then regeneration. The reasoning is that God must first give us grace but then we choose whether to accept His gift before any regeneration can occur. This is a false doctrine that has infiltrated the Church.









Grace is completely God’s doing. It is His gift to us, as Christians. God is a gracious God.





Ephesians 2:8 tells us that we are saved through faith by grace. Grace has to take place before any faith can.



God showered His grace upon us before the foundation of the world. Before anything ever was, He had a plan. Part of that plan was to call the vessels of mercy to Himself. Even while we were still enemies of God, He showed His love for us and lavished us with grace





The fact that grace comes first is not usually the part that confuses people. It is the proper order of faith and regeneration that gets sticky. As I have already stated, this is not the correct order at all.



First of all, it is impossible for one to choose God. As I said in a sermon last deployment, before salvation, we serve the dominion of Satan.



We are at war with God and hate Him.



Nobody chooses the enemy. Even the most infamous traitors in American history were not serving the enemy. They may have been OUR enemy, but they were not THEIR enemy. Whether it was money, allegiance, or some other common bond, our enemy had become their ally. In the same way, nobody who chooses God is an enemy of God at the time. In order for one to choose God, a change must first occur. There must be a common bond. That common bond is the Holy Spirit.



We see this verse speaking of the natural man. Another phrase used to identify this type of person is carnal man. The carnal man is a man of his own desires. He is a man at war with God. He is the unregenerate man bound by the chains of sin who still serves the dominion of Satan. Scripture tells us plainly that this man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.





Here we see a new kind of person being introduced. This is the regenerate man. This man has been set free of the chains of sin. He has turned his eyes to the Light (Acts 26:18). He has been renewed by the Holy Spirit.



The Holy Spirit does not reside in the carnal man. The Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate man. Our bodies are the very dwelling place of the Holy Spirit; of God. Having the Holy Spirit is synonymous with being saved. It is utterly impossible for a man to be saved without the Holy Spirit. It is equally as impossible for a man’s body to be the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit if he has not been regenerated. As a result, there is no way faith can come before regeneration.

First, the grace of God is poured out to us. This occurred before the foundation of the world. Next, in God’s timing, we are washed anew and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. At this time, we become a new creature in Christ. We now possess the ability to understand the things of the Spirit because the Spirit resides within us. Lastly, faith occurs. It is only after grace and regeneration that one can truly have faith in God. Of course, this means the “choice” we made was not really our own but rather an irresistible calling of God Almighty as He had already changed our very nature and desires. I am thankful for this because if it were up to me and my own works (a choice is technically a work as it is something we are doing), I would be left with nothing but filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) and a lack of Christ.

agree
grace must come first, we can not even sorry for our sins without the power of God changing our hearts,
then we repent
then we are regenerated

OrthodoxyUSA is also right about child baptsim

 

[rojoloco]

Rhamiel, I agree with the first part of what you said but I disagree on the 2nd. I do not believe we are regenerated because we repent. I believe we repent because we are regenerated. God does not rebirth us into something that can make a choice to reject. Scripture says we are created as a new creature in Christ. This means our transformation is synonymous with regeneration. It is only after this, albeit immediately after, that one can possibly repent for they are finally conformed to Christ.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Im confused by this right now, so many people say regeneration comes first then the Bible says repent and be converted. So which comes first?

Repentence is necessary for salvation, but it's not repentence of sin but from your mindset or belief. We all have to change the way we think in order to be saved. We have to change from unbelief to belief in Christ. Repentence is a verb, it's something we do. It is not an emotion. Wanting to repent, or feeling sorry for your sins is not repentence.

Here's an example of what I am saying,
Mark 1:14-15, After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. The time has come, he said, The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news.

Jesus isn't talking about sin, He never mentions it here. He just delivered the message that the Kingdom of God is near, and then saying repent and believe it. Literally, repent means to stop, turn around and head in the other direction. That takes action on our part, but action follows thinking. Before we can turn around we have to decide to turn around and go in the other direction. So in other words, in order for us to believe the good news that the kingdom is near, we have to stop our old way of thinking. It's all about belief and the process in coming to that belief. Therefore, repentence definatly comes before regeneration, but it's not repentence of sin but repentence of unbelief, which I realize some say is a sin unto itself.

 

[Rhamiel]

Rhamiel, I agree with the first part of what you said but I disagree on the 2nd. I do not believe we are regenerated because we repent. I believe we repent because we are regenerated. God does not rebirth us into something that can make a choice to reject. Scripture says we are created as a new creature in Christ. This means our transformation is synonymous with regeneration. It is only after this, albeit immediately after, that one can possibly repent for they are finally conformed to Christ.

but Adam made a choice to reject, now Adam did not have Gods saving grace acting in his heart, but he was also not suffering from the effects of sin before the fall, so i am a little confused by the Calvinist stance

 

[annrobert]

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus said to believe on Him and you will have everlasting life and that the work of God was to believe on Him whom God has sent.
So this must be repentance ,coming to Jesus to save us from our sins and trusting Jesus.We abide in Jesus so we bear fruit as we can do nothing of ourselves.

 

[RibI]

Im confused by this right now, so many people say regeneration comes first then the Bible says repent and be converted. So which comes first?

I'd forget what "people" say and go with the Bible.
Hey wasn't that easy?

 

[RibI]

Straightforward easy question.
Not so easy an answer.
It honestly depends on where we are starting from.
Baptism is the beginning of regeneration.
If you were baptised as an infant there was no repentance involved.
So regeneration began first. Forgive me...

Getting a child wet is just that, getting a child wet.
You would think I went to Staples and got an easy button.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'd forget what "people" say and go with the Bible.
Hey wasn't that easy?

What a coincidence! So do I

Mark 1:15 And saying "has been filled the Time and has-neared the Kingdom of the God.
Be ye reforming/repenting!/metanoeite <3340> (5720)! and be ye believing!/pisteuete <4100> (5720) in the Good-Message. [Luke 21:31/Reve 16:11]

Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them.
And not they repent/reform/metenohsan <3340> (5656) out of the works of them.

 

[annrobert]

the Bible says repent and be converted

I think this happens simultaneously

Jesus says all that the Father gives to Me will come to Me and he that cometh to Me, I will in no wise cast out.

We are first given to Jesus by Father God,
because of this we come to Jesus
When we come to Jesus we are not cast out

So I think it all happens at the same time.

 

[ittarter]

I just had a "new" thought. New for me, anyway.

Suppose that regeneration is not necessary for the heart to be turned godward? Obvious it is an act of grace to be made penitent -- but is there any reason to suppose that it is "regeneration" that is necessary?

If so, then the order is as follows:
1. the sinner is impenitent
2. God turns the heart of the sinner
3. the sinner repents / regeneration occurs / conversion occurs
4. baptism
5. the creation of terrible puns in the name of "Bible jokes"
6. sanctification
7. glorification

 

[PaladinValer]

Baptism happens. Whether repentance is necessary at the time or not, I don't know. If the person has actual sins, then yes. If not, then no.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Through baptism we are offered the cleansing away of the stain of Adam's sin. Just like the Nicene creed says.

"I believe in one baptism for the remission of sin."

Some of us may not believe it that way, but those who wrote the creed did.

Sin is what will burn in the eternal fire. If we still carry it with us, we will be subject to the fire.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The salvitic actions do not happen the same way for everyone. Our needs are different. There is not a defined order that must be taken.

Forgive me...

 

[ittarter]

The salvitic actions do not happen the same way for everyone. Our needs are different. There is not a defined order that must be taken.

Okay, ignore the second half of my post.

------

I just had a "new" thought. New for me, anyway.

Suppose that regeneration is not necessary for the heart to be turned godward? Obviously it is an act of grace to be made penitent -- but is there any reason to suppose that it is "regeneration" that is necessary to make someone penitent? Or that it is the only way?