Which Bible Would Jesus Use?

[EdwinWillers]

What is the standard?

The original texts which the various groups of scholars translated into English - irrespective of other English translations (except for those translations that were updates to previous ones), including the KJV.

And frankly, the source material is available for anyone with the ability to translate to translate however they see fit - which is arguably the number 1 reason why there are so many [English] translations. Some are better translations than the others, which is a testament not to the source material but to the abilities and goals of the scholastic teams who did the translations - including the team that translated the KJV. Some focused on literal integrity; some focus on integrity of message; some sacrificed literal integrity to paraphrase for what they felt was better clarity. Some interpreted with specific biases, and did so intentionally; some did so unintentially. Some translated into "proper" English; others into "modern" or "contemporary" English - which definitions have themselves changed over the years as generation after generation gradually modify the meanings of words - words that mean one thing in one generation and in another generation something entirely different. In truth, we *need* new translations to keep up with the pace of change of the English language itself.

Many, even today, are not focused on the English language at all, but on native languages so more people and cultures can have the Bible in their own language - which is part and parcel in the great commission to take the gospel to all the world - to a world which even in Jesus' time didn't speak one language (and certainly not the King's English), but which spoke many languages -- cf. Acts 1:6-11 when the gospel was preached on the church's first day in their native languages to Medes, Parthians, Elamites, Cappadocians, Cretans, Pamphylians, Phrygians, Egyptians, Arabs, Romans, Libyans, Cyrenians, Asians, Mesopotamians, and Judeans - by Galileans!

The 1611 King James Version may have its accuracies, but it is by no means the "standard" upon which all English (or any other language for that matter) translations should be based - itself being but a translation; moreover, it also has its weaknesses - not the least of which is a language that no one even speaks anymore.

 

[JacobLaw]

Yhvh's spoken. Hebrew is the pure language.
it is written, (so be in awe),
whoever , anyone, who tries to bring harm to Yhvh's people, Yhvh curses.
whoever, anyone, who tries to help Yhvh's people, Yhvh blesses.
Yhvh has the final say. no one is able to oppose Him and succeed.
Yhvh is Perfect. Yeshua is Perfect. listen to Him.

That simply is unbiblical; and has no support in fact.
Jesus' Kingdom was not of the Jews!
His Father was not Jewish!
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Like I said the Jewish Christians are confused there is a vail on their understanding, the reason may be like with Peter when he acted like a Gentile while trying to compel the Gentile to act like a Jewish, he was to blame and reproved for it.
Understand this: The reading of the Hebrew will vail your heart, you need to hear the truth by the pure language, now, the promised was to be turned to his true people after his resurrection and that was not going to be by but through Hebrew or Greek and several other languages.
The Hebrew is a confounded language then and it remain that way today.

2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Finally:
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[JacobLaw]

The original texts which the various groups of scholars translated into English - irrespective of other English translations (except for those translations that were updates to previous ones), including the KJV.

And frankly, the source material is available for anyone with the ability to translate to translate however they see fit - which is arguably the number 1 reason why there are so many [English] translations. Some are better translations than the others, which is a testament not to the source material but to the abilities and goals of the scholastic teams who did the translations - including the team that translated the KJV. Some focused on literal integrity; some focus on integrity of message; some sacrificed literal integrity to paraphrase for what they felt was better clarity. Some interpreted with specific biases, and did so intentionally; some did so unintentially. Some translated into "proper" English; others into "modern" or "contemporary" English - which definitions have themselves changed over the years as generation after generation gradually modify the meanings of words - words that mean one thing in one generation and in another generation something entirely different. In truth, we *need* new translations to keep up with the pace of change of the English language itself.

Many, even today, are not focused on the English language at all, but on native languages so more people and cultures can have the Bible in their own language - which is part and parcel in the great commission to take the gospel to all the world - to a world which even in Jesus' time didn't speak one language (and certainly not the King's English), but which spoke many languages -- cf. Acts 1:6-11 when the gospel was preached on the church's first day in their native languages to Medes, Parthians, Elamites, Cappadocians, Cretans, Pamphylians, Phrygians, Egyptians, Arabs, Romans, Libyans, Cyrenians, Asians, Mesopotamians, and Judeans - by Galileans!

The 1611 King James Version may have its accuracies, but it is by no means the "standard" upon which all English (or any other language for that matter) translations should be based - itself being but a translation; moreover, it also has its weaknesses - not the least of which is a language that no one even speaks anymore.

Clearly the King James was never meant to be a standard for English; it was set apart from the beginning; was not the vernacular to the time and intentionally use archaic words and inserted words that did not fit a word for word translation; it was not a translation in the prevalent.
The King James Bible language isn't even English as attested by you all that reject it as the inspired word of God, for why else do you seek to diminish and corrupt it by your English words and definitions?

 

[kiwimac]

Clearly the King James was never meant to be a standard for English; it was set apart from the beginning; was not the vernacular to the time and intentionally use archaic words and inserted words that did not fit a word for word translation; it was not a translation in the prevalent.
The King James Bible language isn't even English as attested by you all that reject it as the inspired word of God, for why else do you seek to diminish and corrupt it by your English words and definitions?

Your idolatry is showing. If the KJV isn't in English just what language is it in? Oh, and it certainly was the vernacular of the time it was written in. Reading the translator's preface from the original 1611 KJV would show you that.

From the 1611 preface " . . .The LORD of Heaven and earth blesse your Majestie with many and happy dayes, that as his Heavenly hand hath enriched your Highnesse with many singular, and extraordinary Graces; so you may be the wonder of the world in this later age, for happinesse and true felicitie, to the honour of that Great GOD, and the good of his Church, through JESUS CHRIST our Lord and onely Saviour. . . ."

KJV 1611, Luke 4:1-8 " And Iesus being full of the holy Ghost, returned from Iordane, and was led by the spirit into the wildernesse,2 Being fourtie dayes tempted of the deuil, and in those dayes he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungred.
3 And the deuil saide vnto him, If thou be the Sonne of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Iesus answered him, saying, It is written, that man shall not liue by bread alone, but by euery word of God.
5 And the deuil taking him vp into an high mountaine, shewed vnto him all the kingdomes of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the deuil said vnto him, All this power will I giue thee, and the glory of them; for that is deliuered vnto me, & to whomsoeuer I will, I giue it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shalbe thine.
8 And Iesus answered and said vnto him, Get thee behinde me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him onely shalt thou serue. . . ."

Source:

 

[BryanW92]

Since you use Holy Spirit in such a wild matter it would hard to reason with you.

I don't use the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit uses me. When a person reads scripture, it is just words on a page, regardless of translation. But, the Holy Spirit is the one who is doing the real translating. That is the gift that Jesus gave to us. He gave us a Great Counselor.

Hand your KJV to an atheist and ask him to read a couple verses. Did the "power of the KJV" do anything for him? Did he understand what he read in a profound way? No. It was just words to him.

Now, read it yourself. Did you feel the "pure language" of the Holy Spirit talking to you and interpreting those words you read? You see, the Holy spirit knows each of our gifts and our purpose. He emphasizes certain scriptures in one season of your life and other scriptures in another because he is the one who is guiding you towards your purpose.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Clearly the King James was never meant to be a standard for English; it was set apart from the beginning; was not the vernacular to the time and intentionally use archaic words and inserted words that did not fit a word for word translation; it was not a translation in the prevalent.
The King James Bible language isn't even English as attested by you all that reject it as the inspired word of God, for why else do you seek to diminish and corrupt it by your English words and definitions?

I don't seek to diminish the King James Version of the bible. It's a decent translation - but it's written in a language neither I NOR YOU speak anymore. Because it's written in archaic English, with words and spellings that are no longer used by... ANYONE - it is no longer relevant for everyday use as a translation of God's Word.

That people give personal preference to the KJV over other versions is fine; I have zero problem with that. But to elevate it as you have done - to ascribe to it the status that you have is simply irrational and without the remotest shred of warrant.

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." I Peter 1:20f

No version - per se - is the inspired word of God, for men are not "inspired" to translate what God "inspired" other men to write in the first place.

Can the Holy Spirit work alongside those who put forth the effort to translate God's inspired word into other languages (including English, the King's or otherwise)? Absolutely. But does it make that version "inspired?" No; of course not. It makes the MESSAGE inspired - and that's where you're completely missing the mark in what you're asserting w/r to the KJV.

If you want to argue the accuracy of the KJV translation - have at it; we might agree, we might disagree, in part or in whole - but that's a completely different argument than we're having right now, because that's not even what you're arguing. You're not even arguing it as the ONLY translation. What you're arguing is that it's not even a translation at all, but the very inspired word of God itself - which is simply and demonstrably absurd - and untrue. Moreover, how anyone can think that humanity went 16 centuries after the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Christ without His gospel message until the King of England ordered the texts be translated into English is without a doubt the most outrageous thing of this entire discussion!

In that vein I offer this - but a portion of the lengthy and official preface (written to both the King and to the people) by the translators of the King James Version for your edification:

But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? as it is written, Except I know the power of the voyce, I shall be to him that speaketh, a Barbarian, and he that speaketh, shalbe a Barbarian to me. The Apostle excepteth no tongue, not Hebrewe the ancientest, not Greeke the most copious, not Latine the finest. Nature taught a naturall man to confesse, that all of us in those tongues which wee doe not understand, are plainely deafe; wee may turne the deafe eare unto them. The Scythian counted the Athenian, whom he did not understand, barbarous: so the Romane did the Syrian, and the Jew, (even S. Jerome himselfe calleth the Hebrew tongue barbarous, belike because it was strange to so many) so the Emperour of Constantinople calleth the Latine tongue, barbarous, though Pope Nicolas do storme at it: so the Jewes long before Christ, called all other nations, Lognazim, which is little better then barbarous. Therefore as one complaineth, that alwayes in the Senate of Rome, there was one or other that called for an interpreter: so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. Translation it is that openeth the window, to let in the light; that breaketh the shell, that we may eat the kernel; that putteth aside the curtaine, that we may looke into the most Holy place; that remooveth the cover of the well, that wee may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which meanes the flockes of Laban were watered. Indeede without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacobs well (which was deepe) without a bucket or some thing to draw with: or as that person mentioned by Esau, to whom when a sealed booke was delivered, with this motion, Reade this, I pray thee, hee was faine to make this answere, I cannot, for it is sealed.

Source

Even the very men who embarked on translating the inspired word of God into what we now know as the KJV readily and openly admitted it was a TRANSLATION and nothing of which you are arguing it to be.

Put simply - you are wrong in asserting it to be anything but another translation of God's Word.

 

[BryanW92]

In that vein I offer this - but a portion of the lengthy and official preface (written to both the King and to the people) by the translators of the King James Version for your edification:Even the very men who embarked on translating the inspired word of God into what we now know as the KJV readily and openly admitted it was a TRANSLATION and nothing of which you are arguing it to be.

Put simply - you are wrong in asserting it to be anything but another translation of God's Word.

Thanks for posting that. It certainly clarifies things to know what the translators were thinking.

 

[JacobLaw]

Your idolatry is showing. If the KJV isn't in English just what language is it in? Oh, and it certainly was the vernacular of the time it was written in. Reading the translator's preface from the original 1611 KJV would show you that.

From the 1611 preface " . . .The LORD of Heaven and earth blesse your Majestie with many and happy dayes, that as his Heavenly hand hath enriched your Highnesse with many singular, and extraordinary Graces; so you may be the wonder of the world in this later age, for happinesse and true felicitie, to the honour of that Great GOD, and the good of his Church, through JESUS CHRIST our Lord and onely Saviour. . . ."

KJV 1611, Luke 4:1-8 " And Iesus being full of the holy Ghost, returned from Iordane, and was led by the spirit into the wildernesse,2 Being fourtie dayes tempted of the deuil, and in those dayes he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungred.
3 And the deuil saide vnto him, If thou be the Sonne of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Iesus answered him, saying, It is written, that man shall not liue by bread alone, but by euery word of God.
5 And the deuil taking him vp into an high mountaine, shewed vnto him all the kingdomes of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the deuil said vnto him, All this power will I giue thee, and the glory of them; for that is deliuered vnto me, & to whomsoeuer I will, I giue it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shalbe thine.
8 And Iesus answered and said vnto him, Get thee behinde me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him onely shalt thou serue. . . ."

Source:

It is the inspired pure language of God.
I don't see your point at all; seem to be quite a disconnect with what you and I perceive.

 

[RileyG]

Considering the bible was passed through oral tradition, he wouldn't used one as he lived during that period time.

 

[jbearnolimits]

The original texts which the various groups of scholars translated into English - irrespective of other English translations (except for those translations that were updates to previous ones), including the KJV.

When I spoke of the modern English translations needing to line up with the KJV it was not because I felt the KJV is the original, only that for those who don't know about the original documents (those old old old artifacts) and anything about Hebrew and Greek it is the easiest way to check for accuracy.

Because as I said, it has been proven over hundreds of years. And it is not impossible to understand. In fact, if you need to you can use the NKJV which takes replaces thee and thou with the modern word you.

On another note, I chose to quote the part of your post that I did because it is what you said the standard was for finding out what is the best translation. I felt it needful to say, yet again, that the more modern day translations are translated from different original documents than the KJV.

And also there is need to point out, yet again, that the age of the original document is not what determines its authority, but rather the accuracy of that document itself.

Once more though, I want to say that I am not a KJV only type of person. I do use other translations as well. But only because I am able to discern the meaning behind some of the changes (and look back to the KJV to see when another translation changes the meaning of a verse). I just prefer the KJV or NKJV over the others for in depth study.

 

[Returner]

I personally think Jesus would use any Bible that is the easiest to read and wholeheartedly understand for his followers.

That's why we have so many translations of the Bible.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Considering the bible was passed through oral tradition, he wouldn't used one as he lived during that period time.

you're apparently still young, and apparently (from just this one post in grave error) you've not found out yet what really happened. from all the posters i've seen on this forum the last ten or more years, you'll have to go personally, in person, to Jewish believers immersed in Yeshua to find the truth, Yhvh willing. if you don't seek diligently for the truth, don't worry , it won't press upon you.

 

[BryanW92]

you'll have to go personally, in person, to Jewish believers immersed in Yeshua to find the truth, Yhvh willing. if you don't seek diligently for the truth, don't worry , it won't press upon you.

Please explain what you mean by this. In fact, start a new thread. I'd like to discuss this more.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Originally Posted by yeshuaslavejeff

you'll have to go personally, in person, to Jewish believers immersed in Yeshua to find the truth, Yhvh willing. if you don't seek diligently for the truth, don't worry , it won't press upon you.
​

Please explain what you mean by this. In fact, start a new thread. I'd like to discuss this more.

i'd like to also, but it may be a few days/ couple weeks before i'm able to, Yhvh willing. for now, i defer to richard wurmbrand (who wrote "tortured for Christ") and who wrote 'somewhere' (several years ago i read in one of his books) in/about his testimony of how he came to know the one true Yeshua HaMashiach the following summarized :

in a mountain town in (switzerland or elsewhere) i met an old man who had prayed to Yhvh to send a Jew to save/help/witness to
because the old man loved Yhvh, loved Yeshua, loved Salvation, loved the truth, and loved the Jews(Yhvh's people) and
the old man wasn't able to go somewhere else (to be sent out to them) to witness to them.
Yhvh sent richard wurmbrand.
the old man read Scripture with richard wurmbrand and showed wurmbrand the truth - the truth about Yeshua, about Yhvh's great love in Yeshua for Jews and gentiles, about Yhvh's Plan in and by and through Yeshua to save men from their sins, all in accordance with Scriptures all through the Old Testament and the New Testament (and specifically not the way taught by any church wurmbrand had met with previously).

the Truth. from an old man in a mountain town, to a Jew. (who, btw, was subsequently saved in Yeshua and became a great witness of the saving grace of Yeshua HaMashiach to many others ).

directly from wurmbrand, he noted that this old man in a mountain town had been the "only one" to accurately present to him, wurmbrand, Yeshua HaMashiach and Yhvh's Love according to all of Scripture without contradicting any Scripture and without violating any Scripture.

the importance of this and the ramifications are very far reaching and bring light to a very wide spread and often seen predicament (to put it much more politely than it ought to be) -- namely, why do / have/ so many Jews resisted and refused to accept Yeshua as the Messiah and not accepted the GOOD NEWS (the Gospel of Yeshua) ?
too simple almost > the 'gentile' use and disclosure and description and teachings about Scripture don't line up with Scripture that Jews have been given by Yhvh and been entrusted with by Yhvh, including some or many aspects of Yeshua HaMashiach as the one and only Savior and Messiah foretold by Yhvh in Scripture.

(see, this is barely scratching the surface, and hardly is there space and time here to present it all in a way that is adequate for most of the readers)

so, for any follow up, for any study, for any seekers of Yhvh , seekers of plan Truth,
please obtain and read richard wurmbrand's inexpensive short books of his testimony and life,
and / or the testimonies/ bibliographies / other revelations from others who have been saved and who have been able to put this in words and descriptions that coherently , simply, and effectively describe what hindered or prevented them from(at first) accepting the most specatacular news in the world that they could find (the GOOD NEWS of YESHUA)
and
how and who and why they were later able to accept what Yhvh says.

(in person is best, if you can find anyone in person who understands this, prayerfully and prayerfully and prayerfully (get it? pray constantly) seek Yhvh in Yeshua's Grace and rejoice in the Truth He Reveals always totally in line with Scripture, All of Scripture.)
(i haven't seen this possible online so far)

 

[peterandrewj]

Richard Wrumbrand. "Tortured for Christ" Richard Wurmbrand - YouTube

 

[BryanW92]

the importance of this and the ramifications are very far reaching and bring light to a very wide spread and often seen predicament (to put it much more politely than it ought to be) -- namely, why do / have/ so many Jews resisted and refused to accept Yeshua as the Messiah and not accepted the GOOD NEWS (the Gospel of Yeshua) ?
too simple almost > the 'gentile' use and disclosure and description and teachings about Scripture don't line up with Scripture that Jews have been given by Yhvh and been entrusted with by Yhvh, including some or many aspects of Yeshua HaMashiach as the one and only Savior and Messiah foretold by Yhvh in Scripture.

Are you saying that more Jews would follow Jesus Christ if the gentiles hadn't corrupted Scripture, even though the Jews know the "true" scripture?

 

[toLiJC]

the translation of each Bible's version is more or less full of many imperfections, and its translators made the best that they could do for their time (according to what they had then), but more important is the faith to be right, because the Bible is anyway full of things hard to be understood, that is why it's written that the believer will live by faith, because only the true Lord God can reveal the mystery of the biblical scriptures

2 Peter 3:14-16 "be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.",

Romans 1:16-23 "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith(also: by faithfulness). For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.",

Galatians 3:11-14 "no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith(i.e. and the following of the law as a direction of the faith instead of the show of love is not of right faith): but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Blessings

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Idolatry is insidious and clearly something that countless people have and will struggle with.

the list is without end. yet remember, "for the pure, all things are pure". yet again, how can anyone be pure ? (men fail every day trying to be)

yet again, Yhvh is Faithful and True and Holy and Righteous and Yhvh Promises that everyone who seeks Him finds Him.
(but He knows thoroughly and completely and totally what is in a mans heart. Yeshua knew this, (plainly stated in Scripture), and did not... well , here it is) >>
John 2:24-25 NKJV - But Jesus did not commit Himself to ...

But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, ... 24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men,

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are you saying that more Jews would follow Jesus Christ if the gentiles hadn't corrupted Scripture, even though the Jews know the "true" scripture?

i'm saying that richard wurmbrand, a jew, said that for centuries jews have rejected the approach of some (few or many) trying to reach them because those trying to reach them didn't know Scripture.

 

[BryanW92]

i'm saying that richard wurmbrand, a jew, said that for centuries jews have rejected the approach of some (few or many) trying to reach them because those trying to reach them didn't know Scripture.

Jesus knew scripture. Most Jews rejected his teachings.