Where In The Bible Do The Jews Reject The Trinity?

[Ratiocination]

Hi All.
As one of Jehovah's witnesses its no secret that we do not think the trinity to be scriptural. The Jews (for the most part) also reject this doctrine....
But my question is, when did the Jews first begin to reject it? Are there any recorded 'rejections' in the scriptures? Or are all the written objections by the Jews from a much later time?

Many Thanks in advance

 

[smaneck]

Hi All.
As one of Jehovah's witnesses its no secret that we do not think the trinity to be scriptural. The Jews (for the most part) also reject this doctrine....
But my question is, when did the Jews first begin to reject it? Are there any recorded 'rejections' in the scriptures? Or are all the written objections by the Jews from a much later time?

You can't reject what doesn't exist.

 

[Ratiocination]

You can't reject what doesn't exist.

Well I guess not! But this doctrine certainly exists now, and I was wondering when the Jews began to reject it...

 

[smaneck]

Well I guess not! But this doctrine certainly exists now, and I was wondering when the Jews began to reject it...

Well, since they didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah to begin with it wouldn't much matter what else Christians said about Him. The Trinity is formulated until the second century, so obviously there is no question of it being rejected by Jews in the Bible. The question never came up.

 

[Ratiocination]

Well, since they didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah to begin with it wouldn't much matter what else Christians said about Him. The Trinity is formulated until the second century, so obviously there is no question of it being rejected by Jews in the Bible. The question never came up.

Infact, you don't see modern Trinitarianism fully explained until the forth century, but anyway...
The Jews did accept Jesus, don't forget all of Jesus apostles, family and friends were Jews, and still this question never came up!

 

[cloudyday2]

Here is an interesting book. I haven't read this, but the author is a professor.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Gospels-Story-Christ/dp/1595588787

Boyarin claims that Christianity was simply a natural evolution of one of the many diverse strains of Judaism. He uses the trinity as an example of a belief that already existed in Judaism prior to Christianity. (I believe he said it was a two-part trinity instead of a three-part trinity.)

So maybe we can say Judaism rejected the trinity in the late 1st century and early 2nd century as Rabbinical Judaism became the only form of Judaism?

 

[Ratiocination]

Here is an interesting book. I haven't read this, but the author is a professor.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Gospels-Story-Christ/dp/1595588787

Boyarin claims that Christianity was simply a natural evolution of one of the many diverse strains of Judaism. He uses the trinity as an example of a belief that already existed in Judaism prior to Christianity.

So maybe we can say Judaism rejected the trinity in the late 1st century and early 2nd century as Rabbinical Judaism became the only form of Judaism?

 

[Ratiocination]

sorry pressed post reply... Very interesting ill take a look

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi All.
As one of Jehovah's witnesses its no secret that we do not think the trinity to be scriptural. The Jews (for the most part) also reject this doctrine....
But my question is, when did the Jews first begin to reject it? Are there any recorded 'rejections' in the scriptures? Or are all the written objections by the Jews from a much later time?

Many Thanks in advance

Judaism never accepted the idea of God as being a Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is a uniquely Christian idea rooted in the Church's historic experiences and theological reflection of the person of Jesus and His unique relationship to God.

You're right that there is nothing explicit in Scripture that teaches the doctrine of the Trinity; it is a theological formulation based upon the witness of Scripture and in response to what were regarded as erroneous, heretical ideas of the first few centuries of Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Infact, you don't see modern Trinitarianism fully explained until the forth century, but anyway...
The Jews did accept Jesus, don't forget all of Jesus apostles, family and friends were Jews, and still this question never came up!

Those Jews in question were Christians.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here is an interesting book. I haven't read this, but the author is a professor.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Gospels-Story-Christ/dp/1595588787

Boyarin claims that Christianity was simply a natural evolution of one of the many diverse strains of Judaism. He uses the trinity as an example of a belief that already existed in Judaism prior to Christianity. (I believe he said it was a two-part trinity instead of a three-part trinity.)

So maybe we can say Judaism rejected the trinity in the late 1st century and early 2nd century as Rabbinical Judaism became the only form of Judaism?

There have been some that have suggested that a primitive "Binitarianism" existed early on, in that there was a general acceptance of the Deity of Jesus, and virtually all major theological discussion in early Christianity was Christological, Pneumatological discussion didn't get quite as much attention. The Council of Nicea, for example, was specifically in regard to the Christological issue of whether Jesus was the same God as God the Father (homoousios) or another, secondary God to God the Father (heteroousios). More robust statements about the Holy Spirit, while around earlier, come to the forefront by the time of the Council of Constantinople which met to address the Macedonian controversy, which re-asserted the formula of Nicea and amending it with a strong statement about the Holy Spirit, that the Spirit is "Lord and Life-Giver" and to be worshiped with the Father and the Son as God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ratiocination]

You're right that there is nothing explicit in Scripture that teaches the doctrine of the Trinity; it is a theological formulation based upon the witness of Scripture and in response to what were regarded as erroneous, heretical ideas of the first few centuries of Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

So those 'heretics' would have been the apostles?

 

[Ratiocination]

Those Jews in question were Christians.

-CryptoLutheran

Not before the arrival of the messiah they weren't!

 

[Ubuntu]

I believe that truth is progressive. There are many things that earlier generations didn't see clearly which were revealed later on. The nature of God and the Messiah is such an example. Jesus not only came as someone who were to save us from our sins, his mission was also to clarify the nature of God himself. (John 1:18.)

Yet it's also quite clear from the Old Testament itself that there existed a divine being that was equal to God himself. For instance Moses met “Jehovah’s angel […] in a flame of fire in the midst of a thornbush”. (Exodus 3:2.) Yet this holy messenger is referred to as the “true God” (Exodus 3:4, Exodus 3:6).

From a Christian point of view this passage can be interpreted as a manifestation of the preincarnate Christ. But it's not certain that this was clear to the Jews. The most important revelation for the Jews who lived amongst polytheistic nations was the fact that God is One. Thus, it wasn't until the Christian dispensation that the triune nature of God was more fully revealed.

 

[Aidan K]

I thought Zoroastrian teaching espouses a trinity!

 

[morningstar2651]

Well I guess not! But this doctrine certainly exists now, and I was wondering when the Jews began to reject it...

They never accepted it.

 

[cloudyday2]

Judaism never accepted the idea of God as being a Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is a uniquely Christian idea rooted in the Church's historic experiences and theological reflection of the person of Jesus and His unique relationship to God.

You're right that there is nothing explicit in Scripture that teaches the doctrine of the Trinity; it is a theological formulation based upon the witness of Scripture and in response to what were regarded as erroneous, heretical ideas of the first few centuries of Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

I believe Boyarin is claiming the Binitarianism and even Trinitarianism existed centuries before the time of Jesus. Here is an article discussing his book and the trinity claims. Apparently most scholars agree that Binitarianism existed before Jesus was born, but they disagree with Boyarin about Trinitarianism.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/103373/books-and-arts/magazine/jewish-gospels-christ-boyarin

 

[ViaCrucis]

So those 'heretics' would have been the apostles?

No.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoAmmi]

The Jews did accept Jesus, don't forget all of Jesus apostles, family and friends were Jews, and still this question never came up!

When people ask this they aren't asking if some Jews accept or reject X. The question is why the majority of Jews or why Judaism accepts or rejects X. Some Jews accepted Baal worship but I'd hardly use that to prove Jews accept Baal.

 

[cloudyday2]

When people ask this they aren't asking if some Jews accept or reject X. The question is why the majority of Jews or why Judaism accepts or rejects X. Some Jews accepted Baal worship but I'd hardly use that to prove Jews accept Baal.

Of course Judaism apparently evolved gradually from the religions of the Canaanites. Many of the stories and poems in the Bible existed earlier in the Ugarit religion. When Yahweh is "riding on the clouds" and so forth, He is essentially taking the position of Baal in the pantheon. And apparently the Canaanite gods changed roles and ranks in the pantheon depending on the locale and time period. The monotheists didn't become the majority in Judaism until they returned from exile. (At least that is my understanding from limited reading. I might have an inaccurate picture of it.)