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Where did the people Cain was afraid would kill him, come from?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by WilliamB, May 14, 2012.

  1. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    I've highlighted the parts in question:

    13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

    Here Cain is speaking as if he has seen and knows there are other people on the planet and is afraid of them.

    15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over. ” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.

    Here, the the Lord acknowledges there are other people in the world and not only curses anyone who kills Cain but marks Cain so these other people would know not to harm him, when they found him.

    17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

    Where did Cains wife come from?
     
  2. ptomwebster

    ptomwebster Senior Member

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    "Where did the people Cain was afraid would kill him, come from?"

    Chicago
     
  3. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    Should have known. ^_^
     
  4. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Good questions. What do you think? It's all made up or something else?
     
  5. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Did people always wonder about these things, or is this kind of question more a product of our modern era?
    I have never really seen it discussed in any of the writings of the early church fathers, or any of the rabbinical writings that I have been introduced to.

    The bible itself seems to not think that such kind of questions are worth giving a second thought to. Such questions are for the main exterior to anything that the actual text discusses as problems.
     
  6. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    I don't know. I don't feel like its all made up but I feel like a part of this story is missing. Was hoping others had some possible insights to this.
     
  7. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    Not sure, I just stumbled on this while doing some research on another thread.
     
  8. ptomwebster

    ptomwebster Senior Member

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    I answered it in another thread, read that one.

     
  9. zeke37

    zeke37 IMO...

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    there is another thread that some think answers this question...8th day creation, i think it's called.

    if a day is as a 1000 years, then this might apply...

    mankind in general created on the 6th day
    7th day of rest
    after that presumably the 8th day, Adam is formed in the garden.

    so the thought is that others were here before the garden and before adam was formed
     
  10. Mark_Sam

    Mark_Sam Newbie

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    Simple: his brothers and sisters; other children of Adam and Eve.
     
  11. God's Word

    God's Word New Member

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    Not necessarily only his brothers and sisters...as it more than likely would have included their offspring as well. Anyhow, the relevant text is as follows:

    Genesis 5:1-5

    "This is the book of the generation of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: AND HE BEGAT SONS AND DAUGHTERS; And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

    Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. Yes, when God told them to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (Genesis 1:28), they apparently obeyed and did just that. Although Seth wasn't born until Adam was 130 years old, we need not assume that he was Adam and Eve's third child. We must remember that Adam was apparenlty created as a fully grown male and that Eve was apparently created as a fully grown female as well. IOW, they didn't have to wait many years until they were able to procreate, so they could have had numerous children/grandchildren/great grandchildren prior to the birth of Seth. Although the Biblical narrative focuses primarily on Cain and Abel, there's really no reason to assume that they were the only two children of Adam and Eve which were alive at the time that Cain murdered Abel and before Seth was born. There could easily have been other brothers or sisters and their offspring alive at this time as well...which seemingly was the case.

    I hope that this helps.
     
  12. Going Merry

    Going Merry ‏‏‏‏ ‏‏‏‏

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    I sort of thought this was obvious :ahem: But yeah they were just adam and eves children/grandchildren who would be threatening Cains life. And as you know there is good reason for them to do this since Abel was righteous after all, he perhaps had a good repute among his family.
     
  13. squint

    squint Active Member

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    Naw, Cain already knew from both the action of God with Adam and from Gods Words also to Cain that the penalty of SIN was DEATH.

    The deployment of the ambiguous term of whosoever is in actuality a specifically deployed term that points to the working of evil in the heart which does in fact kill us all.

    Genesis 4:7
    If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

    The HIM/HIS being referred to is the SERPENT, the same DEVIL who deceived Eve in the Garden, and whom Cain certainly knew about from both her and from God Himself.

    There are other powers in operation on this present earth that are disclosed in the text, BUT can't be visibly seen.

    s
     
  14. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    The Bible doesn't seem overly concerned with that question. What would be important I think is not to follow any racist theologies that posit a special creation of the lineage of Adam over and apart from the rest of mankind.

    Bible is above all a spiritual history, and Genesis is about establishing order from the void. It all comes back to one man, one woman, and the sin brought into the world by that one man, one woman.
    And if not that one man, one woman, then certainly the eight of their lineage, who alone remained after the recreation of the world during the Flood.
     
  15. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    I've read much, searching for answers including other threads, and I don't seem any closer unless God just continued creating people starting after the 8th day. To address some points:

    1. To suggest Cain and able were not the first children born would require reading too much into the text and adding to it. All evidence supports Cain and able were the first born of Adam and eve.

    2. We have no idea how old Cain and Able are but at 30 years old, Eve could have born a max of 40 children in that time.

    3. I don't see how the other people on earth could be descendants of Adam as that would mean they too had been sent from Gods presence for sin, which there is no indication in scriptures this is true, plus that would mean that they sinned before Cain so why no mention?

    4. After looking at the 8th day creation thread, I have no clue how this relates, unless its stating that God continued to create people. Not sure though, maybe the intelligence level of some of the posts is just too high for me to grasp.

    5. Cains wife could very easily have been a sibling so that point I concede.
     
  16. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    That's actually what troubles me. There's seems no real concern in the text nor in any of the non-canon books. I'm not looking for wild conspiracy theories as I'm secure in the creation of all by God alone. But you have to admit, it is an interesting question that raises all sorts of questions. Were these Adams offspring who had been sent from Gods presence prior to Cains sin? We're they simply continued creation of God but not deemed or included as Gods true people? Are they simply spiritual demons that he's afraid of, now that he's no longer protected by God?

    It says that when Adam named all of the creatures, that no acceptable mate was found. Is this to assume they hoped some animal would be good for Adam? Or, is this to suggest that there were other males but that obviously wouldn't work for procreation? Or does it simply mean, there were none other like Adam, period?
     
  17. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    The eighth day Creation is about God creating mankind as a multitude on the sixth day, and a special creation of Adam on the eighth day. I never heard much about it in that way until a couple of days ago, and it was pointed out on that thread that this kind of theology has been used to promote racism, where whites are descendants of the special creation of Adam, and the rest of humanity is from the sixth day creation.

    Whether or not mankind has ever existed as less than 500 or so breeding pairs is nore a question for science than for theology. What the Bible and all the earliest commentators have focused in on is salvation history, and the fact that we are all children of the same One God.
    There are a lot of the mechanics of exactly how these kind of situations came about that the Bible leaves unanswered, because the mechanics were never all that important to the Biblical message until modern times and evolution theory.
     
  18. WilliamB

    WilliamB New Member

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    Oh I see. Thank you for clearing that up. I did read that last night about the 6th and 8th day but maybe i was too tired to process it.
     
  19. 1234321

    1234321 Junior Member

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    YES. YES. 100000X YES!!!!!!!


    The bible is a book about first-born male children, and males with certain birth-rights. Adam and Eve were the first humans; there were no others. Adam was the prime. He was split from androgyny into male and female by God - Adam and Eve (the name given to her by Adam, but she is still Adam.) Genesis 1:1 - 2:3 is a quick overview of the work of God, from creating the Heavens and earth, to humans. Genesis 2:4 - Revelation 22:21 is what happen after humans were created up to the end. Gen 1:1 - 2:3 is like a Star wars movie where the rolling screen of text fills you in on what has happened in the mean time, and the Gen 2:4 to the end of the bible is the movie.

    At that time, incest was legal (because the genetic line was pure enough to take inbred genes.) It was outlawed in in Leviticus 18, when there was sufficient genetic variation that could damage progeny. It is often said (and theorized) that, in addition to twin boys, the early humans also had twin girls - sets of two (male/female twins,) or sets of four (male male/female female.) Even if the multiple theory is not the case, or was sometimes the case, the sons married (had sex) with their sisters. We do not hear of this in the bible, because the books chosen are addressing other topics.

    A reason why it is a book about first born male children, or males with certain birth-rights, is because it is a foreshadow and allusion to Christ, who is the first perfect man living today.

    Another point of Cain's fear was that humans back then lived for nearly 1000 years, so that would be plenty of time for a lot of angry brothers, sisters, neices, nephews, grand nieces, etc. to come after Cain, especially when he gets old. He was thinking about the present, but especially the future, when he pleaded with God to give him protection from the other people. Also, he probably refered to them as "whoever," a relatively impersonal term, because killing Abel qualified him as an exile from the family of Adam and Eve. Not to mention, Adam did not father Cain (can you guess who did,) take a look at Genesis 5 where it lists Adam's sons: it does not list Abel (because he was murdered,) but it does not list Cain either.
     
  20. Yab Yum

    Yab Yum Veteran

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    Oh that's easy - the same place the people who put the saddles on the dinosaurs came from.

    [​IMG]
     
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