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Where are all the YEC's who fight the good fight against evolution????

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Chi_Cygni, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. Mike Flynn

    Mike Flynn New Member

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    There are answers to these questions, roadie. But you are not correctly formulating the Big Bang....its not like a giant atomic bomb or something. Let me try to give you the non-technical version of it:

    The general concensus is that the universe began as a very tiny 'piece' of space and time. A tremendous amount of energy was bound to this space. Some kind of event caused the expansion of this space into the universe we have now. (And the theories are not clear on the first cause...although there are some proposals on the table).

    Where did the material come from? Well, Einstein tells us that matter and energy are interchangeable. If you have alot of energy, then matter can appear as the energy is transformed into it. This is not science fiction. We have reproduced such conditions in particle accelerators, and we see lots of different kinds of matter particles form from energetic collisions.

    While the big bang should not be characterized as an explosion, you should know that it does have some features in common with one. You mentioned 'destruction'...well, not exactly...but the universe is less ordered than it was before the expansion. If you think about what happens when a firework explodes, the universe today (the galaxies, etc) are somewhat similar (although the firework analogy is really not a good one at all...but it illustrates the point).

    Remember that the Big Bang does not disprove God, rather it simply seems to be the tool He used for creation.
     
  2. Pete Harcoff

    Pete Harcoff PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

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    I've been on these boards for over a year and that's par for course. Not to say that *all* YECs shy away from debate and discussion about topics raised, but the majority stay silent.

    Part of the issue I think, is the fact that a number of non-creationists here are actual scientists, whereas I don't think any YEC scientists have stepped in the fray (at least, none with schooling relevant to the discussions). So, you get people who are trying to argue YEC, but are handicapped by the fact they just don't have the depth of knowledge of others with degrees relevant to the topics at hand. Hence, they quickly get in over their heads and end up floundering.

    Something else that comes to mind is a reference or quote I saw attributed to Dawkins that stated that creationists only tend to read material by other creationists. So, they're out of the loop when it comes to dealing with material not covered by their creationist sources. The fact that we see creationists bringing up PRATT lists, yet ignoring other material raised by non-creationists, speaks of this phenomenon.
     
  3. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    This isn't an exact quotation because I added paragraphs and grammar to make the thing readable before working out a response. The words are the same though.

    I would like some references for these, as this kind of claim is invariably based on a little 'creative interpretation' in my personal experience. And the Earth is not circular.

    People say the same about the word of Allah. Or the word of their cult leader. Proves nothing.

    That's because modern cells (like you have seen mapped) are 4 billion years of evolution more sophisticated than the original simple cells, which were little more than a sack of chemicals.

    Possible Christian POV:
    We aren't an 'accident'. God created evolution to perform his will. maybe that is why cultures desire ot worship something.

    My POV:
    Inventing spirits and gods was the only way to explain certain phenomena before the advent of science. Those religions clever enough to seperate their God(s) from science survive into the modern world (Hint, hint)

    Me, you, and all the other posters here are talking apes. And we have plenty of progressions of earlier apes becoming more human-shaped, just because one fossil hasn't been found yet doesn't invalidate the whole thing.

    No. Why should I have seen them?

    If my mother gave birth to me why is she still here? The evolution of some members of a species into another species does not necessarily entail the destruction of the original species.

    No. If you believe the strawman (fake) version of evolution that you have been misled (probably not knowingly) into believing then you believe that. But the real version of evolution is nothing like that.

    It developed complexity from simple beginnings.

    The above paragraph has nothing to do with evolution at all. That is cosmology, and a matter for another thread. Why not start one to dispute the big bang, and try out this new fangled 'punctuation' idea too?
     
  4. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    There are YEC scientists? When did this happen?
     
  5. Mike Flynn

    Mike Flynn New Member

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    The rest of your arguments are valid. But this one puts you on par with roadie since, like his view of science, your view of religion seems nothing more than dissmissive and speculative. (albeit roadie isn't characterizing religion very well either)

    I realize that you have qualified it as a 'POV', and there's nothing wrong with that. But you should know that this is the domain where the atheists start looking as uninformed about theology as the YEC's are about science.

    This comment stood out to me simply because the rest of them were on the money. :)
     
  6. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    You are right to point out that the idea is purely speculative. It is merely the best explanation I can think of for the emergence of religion that does not involve a God. I hope I didn't give the impression of claiming to have any definite knowledge or authority in the area.

    On the other hand, thanks for the support. :)
     
  7. roadie432002

    roadie432002 Jesus is Lord

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  8. Nathan Poe

    Nathan Poe New Member

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    True, but if you rip their wings off, then they'll eat whatever you give them... :p
     
  9. roadie432002

    roadie432002 Jesus is Lord

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    read Lev 12-15 re sanitation and hyguine.this deals with germs.read Lev 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."read Job 36:27-29.evaporation and condension cycles.t doesnt matter to me how old the universe is.God created it all.one thousand years our time is one day in the lords time.
     
  10. roadie432002

    roadie432002 Jesus is Lord

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    also PL when one comes to saving faith in God you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit.the Holy Spirit changes you inside.does allah do that.apparently not.Christians do not think its ok to kill those who are not christians.We do not practice suicide bombing.The only way is to reason together and plant the seeds of truth and leave it in Gods hands.
     
  11. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    It deals with disease (mostly leprosy), but I cannot find a specific germs reference. Could you point me to a verse, in case I missed it?

    I must admit this one seems to work. Fair enough.

    All these verses seem to cover is the clouds producing rain.

    That's a good thing. Too many people have tied their belief in God to the idea that the universe is young, and this has damaged christianity.
     
  12. Data

    Data Veteran

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    That he does, according to muslims.

    Ever heard of witches?

    It works, sure, but that "life is in the blood" is very obvious. This isn't something we just figured out 50 years ago.
     
  13. Arikay

    Arikay HI

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    If it actually talked about germs, you would think that those christians who thought demons made them sick should have read their bibles a bit closer.

    Unless you are reading germs into it where its not actually specified.

     
  14. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    Muslims would probably disagree.

    It is unfair to judge a religion on the actions of some of its members. Remember the crusades, and murders of abortion clinic workers? Those were all done by people professing Christianity, but we can both agree that they are not actions representative of christianity.

    I agree with you completely.

     
  15. roadie432002

    roadie432002 Jesus is Lord

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  16. roadie432002

    roadie432002 Jesus is Lord

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    what else could it be.as we know today mother knows best when she tells us to wash our hands to get rid of those nasty germs.
     
  17. Arikay

    Arikay HI

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    What else could it be?

    Spontaneous generation. Dirt on your hands will turn into bugs if not washed off soon enough, the bugs will make you sick. so make sure to wash the dirt off your hands.


    See the problem here, is you are using your knowledge of today, sticking it in the bible, and then saying the bible is amazing for predicting that knowledge. Tell me, did you learn about germs from the bible, or did you learn about them from somewhere else, then read the bible verse and assume thats what it means?

    What if germ theory is wrong? After all its just a "theory" :)

     
  18. Mike Flynn

    Mike Flynn New Member

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    If it doesn't matter to you then thats great. Then let others have their opinions on such matters. None of it has anything to do with Christian salvation anyway.

    Lev 17:11 What are you saying here?

    Job 36:27-29 Explains some aspects of the water cycle, but it should hardly be taken as an explanation. The point is that God is responsible for the whole thing. The answer to Job 36:29 today is YES (but thats not the point, is it?)
     
  19. PhantomLlama

    PhantomLlama Prism Ranger

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    Could be an evil spirit transferring from one person to another.
     
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