When your spouse is a big fat liar

Status
Not open for further replies.

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
Absolutely true. We have been to counselling twice. After two sessions, my h said he thought the counsellor was on my side, and didn't want to go any more. So we stopped.

Second time - he didn't see why we had to go to counseling (he didn't the first time either) - and again I chose a man, so that my h would feel more comfortable, but while my h agreed with what he said at the time, by a few weeks later, he was saying that the counselor had no idea what he was talking about. We didn't finish out the sessions we had planned, and none of the real issues was ever raised.

My h managed one session, then said the same thing; the counsellor was on my side. In fact he wasn't; he was on our daughter's side if anything, and I was happy with that but h wasn't.

He could never understand why his needs did not come first, in relation to access. The simple answer was alcoholism.

I would really like to go to counselling just for myself. I'm beyond believing it can help the marriage, but I would sure like to sort out my own head.

That sounds very sensible.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is most kind of you. Thank you.
:thumbsup:

I think for me the deal breaker would be empathy. You say lack of; does this mean none whatever, or sometimes a bit? If there is none whatever, then the chances are she is towards the unhealthy side, I am sorry to say.

I can't say for sure there is a total lack of empathy, but I am hard pressed to think of an example where there was genuine empathy.
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
I can't say for sure there is a total lack of empathy, but I am hard pressed to think of an example where there was genuine empathy.

What about the vague feeling of unreality or confusion when something that was true five minutes ago seems not to be true any more? Is that familiar? Like a reality shift, or like looking at a holographic picture; one way it looks like one thing, and then suddenly that is gone and something else is there instead. Have you experienced that? A feeling of walking on sand, rather than solid ground.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What about the vague feeling of unreality or confusion when something that was true five minutes ago seems not to be true any more? Is that familiar? Like a reality shift, or like looking at a holographic picture; one way it looks like one thing, and then suddenly that is gone and something else is there instead. Have you experienced that? A feeling of walking on sand, rather than solid ground.

Not really. More like a changing of the mind, as in "it's a woman's perogative to change her mind" type thing. Or saying or promising something and not following through and getting called a "nag" or her being defensive if I try to remind her. It used to be really bad, but has changed a little for the better recently.

Mostly it's the absence of a noticeable amount empathy and unwillingness to admit mistakes and be held accountable. And certainly a turning away from her relationship with Christ has been difficult as well.

Nothing like Jane's husband where lying and denial of any problem is a constant occurance.
 
Upvote 0

dallasapple

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2006
9,845
1,169
✟13,920.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think for me the deal breaker would be empathy. You say lack of; does this mean none whatever, or sometimes a bit? If there is none whatever, then the chances are she is towards the unhealthy side, I am sorry to say.

Catherine is it possible for a N to have empathy for many people but not for one person?(namely thier spouse as in thier spouse has hurt them so deeply they really stopped feeling for their pain?).

Dallas
 
  • Like
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I started to suspect my wife had some narcissistic tendoncies when I read this article:

Living | Know a narcissist? When they only have eyes for themselves, that's a clue | Seattle Times Newspaper

In it, it lists the 9 traits of narcissists as identified by the American Psychological Association. 5 of these traits need to be present for a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) diagnosis:

• Feels grandiose and self-important for reasons not supported by reality
• Obsesses with fantasies about unlimited success, fame, power or omnipotence
• Believes he/she is unique and special and can be understood by and associate with only other unique or high-status people
• Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation
• Feels a sense of entitlement
• Exploits others without guilt or remorse
• Is devoid of empathy
• Tends to be envious of others or believes others are envious of him/her
• Displays arrogant and haughty behavior

In my situation, I could only pinpoint the "devoid of empathy" trait as applicable.

However, the article quotes an author of a book on narcissistism that lack of empathy is the biggest red flag. This author gives 7 more reasons to run:

• Is controlling and manipulative
• Is obsessed with his/her image
• Avoids intimacy and sex
• Can't describe love
• Finds no joy in giving
• Acts as if you do not exist
• Escapes or disappears

At times, but with a fair amount of regularity and consistancy, my wife exhibits most, if not all, of these to varying degrees.

I am hoping and praying that it's just my perception and that my perception is wrong.

I don't know if that helps any of the others on here, but it opened my eyes a few years ago. Catherineanne's comments just seem to confirm my suspicions.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I hope you're wrong BigD, and instead are just seeing someone with healthy coping skills that's pulled away---detached. That may look the same as someone with Ns tendencies. The fact that your wife has been going to counseling by herself makes me think she is not a Ns (that, and hope).

To me......the one thing that's common in all Ns is this tendency (although it's not always clear to others what someone's intentions are):

"Narcissists only enter into a relationship to stroke their ego. They disconnected from themselves a long time ago in order to avoid feeling, so they need the outside world to validate their image."

Like the title of the book mentioned in the article...a "relationship" becomes all about the Ns and their needs. It's not a two-way or mutual relationship.

Oh.....and the statement that they don't find joy in giving. I disagree with that, as an overall identifier.......I think a lot *do* find some joy in giving---although it's not really joy, but instead more that it feeds their ego---supports their "reality" that they are such a wonderful person---self-sacrificial.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dallasapple

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2006
9,845
1,169
✟13,920.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
See thats the thing any person at certain times can exibit some of these behaviors or seeminglyattitudes but they are not full blown narcissist..I woudl think a "real' narcisssit woudl have to have soem of these triats more than one actually that dont "appear and reapear" or that are only towards specific peope adn not everyone..My undesrtanding a narcisssit doesn turly "love' anyone ..not even their own children..thier childre are simply another "source" to feed thier own self image..Everyone exist to feed their false beleifs that they are superior..

Dallas
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I hope you're wrong BigD, and instead are just seeing someone with healthy coping skills that's pulled away---detached. That may look the same as someone with Ns tendencies. The fact that your wife has been going to counseling by herself makes me think she is not a Ns (that, and hope).

I hope I am too, mk. The lack of empathy really gnaws at me though, and she hasn't shown a lot of healthy coping skills in the past and is on her 6th counselor since we met. Things have improved a little bit, but I've been through this cycle before.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I hope I am too, mk. The lack of empathy really gnaws at me though, and she hasn't shown a lot of healthy coping skills in the past and is on her 6th counselor since we met. Things have improved a little bit, but I've been through this cycle before.
How is she with others? Does she have close friends (as far as you know---I realize it's difficult to know the depth of other's relationships). I guess the main identifier is, how does she (overall) handle conflict with others? Does she resort to lying to manipulate the situation (like Jane's husband has done)......or actually seek a resolution that benefits both people?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How is she with others? Does she have close friends (as far as you know---I realize it's difficult to know the depth of other's relationships).

She's not comfortable around many other people in social situations. She communicates with most of her friends mainly through facebook and has had difficulty forming relationships, although she has seemed to be doing better recently.

I guess the main identifier is, how does she (overall) handle conflict with others? Does she resort to lying to manipulate the situation (like Jane's husband has done)......or actually seek a resolution that benefits both people?

She is a conflict avoider. "Let's talk about it later" means I don't want to talk about it and will later only if you bring it up again. Does not lie to manipulate the situation, unless you count making a promise to do something and then not following up to do it. Nothing like Jane is going through. Nor does she actively seek a resolution that would benefit both people if the conflict is too great or overwhelming.

I don't think she's an N in the clinical sense. I just think she has some unhealthy N tendancies that she is unwilling to deal with. To what degree of unhealthy, I don't know.
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
I don't know if that helps any of the others on here, but it opened my eyes a few years ago. Catherineanne's comments just seem to confirm my suspicions.

I do not get the same feeling in relation to your wife as to others described here. It sounds to me (and I am not a doctor, remember, just someone on the internet) as if she might be on the autistic spectrum, rather than the narcissistic one.

It might be worth checking that one out, to see how it fits. It is a matter of patterns; what fits together with other things.

The last thing I would want to do is have everyone concluding that their spouse is pathologically narcissistic, and that there is nowhere for the marriage to go. With an NPD that would be true, but not with all narcissists, and it would not be true of someone on the autistic spectrum.

AS people will tend to find social interaction difficult, and prefer online communication. They may well be avoidant of conflict, because it overwhelms their capacity to process information, and causes huge anxiety. It is not that they put off discussing issues, they are physically incapable of doing so without great suffering. I think that is the right word. Certainly they would want to resolve conflict, but they can't cope with too much information to deal with at once, and conflict involves that. You could think of them like a computer that you ask to run ten different programmes at once; it will crash. You have to reboot and start again, and there will never be a time when your computer will be ready to process so much at once; it simply will always crash. Other people can multitask in this way, and discuss several things at once, deal with the very complex body language involved and stand their ground. AS people will disintegrate in terms of processing capability.

With such a person, if they cannot deal with conflict face to face, it might be worth suggesting that it is done in writing, from a distance (ie not in the same room), and within agreed perameters. Replicate the online experience, where they can cope. Then each person say one thing, the other respond, and stick to that one issue; no sidelines into 'and another thing, and another thing'.

Within such agreed perameters, someone on the spectrum will be able to communicate, offer suggestions, express some affection, accept compromise and ultimately reach agreement. The reason is, they can focus on the issue being discussed, and not also have to try to work out what is going on with all the other input they are getting; reading people does not come easily, they have to work hard to do it. They can't have a row at the same time. This would be better for the other person as well, because as things stand she has no way of communicating what it is that she needs.

Just something to consider, that's all.
 
Upvote 0

BeOfGoodCheer

Romans 8:38-39
Oct 2, 2011
107
8
United States
✟7,777.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have been supporting a friend through her discoveries about her husband keeping things from her, and telling lies to hide these things. I think these causes below are common in a lot of lying behavior:


There are three common denominators: fear, arrogance, and selfishness.

Fear says, I will lie because I'm afraid of the consequence of telling the truth.
Arrogance says, I will lie because I should not have to deal with the consequence of telling the truth. Selfishness says, I will lie because the consequence of telling the truth may get in the way of what I want to do.

These are from an article on Husbands who lie: http://www.deepwaters.info/cheerupyourwife/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=58

It's was a very clear article and helped my friend put a lot of her feelings into words.
Forgiveness and rebuilding trust isn't easy, Good luck!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0
R

Romanseight2005

Guest
I have been supporting a friend through her discoveries about her husband keeping things from her, and telling lies to hide these things. I think these causes below are common in a lot of lying behavior:


There are three common denominators: fear, arrogance, and selfishness.

Fear says, I will lie because I'm afraid of the consequence of telling the truth.
Arrogance says, I will lie because I should not have to deal with the consequence of telling the truth. Selfishness says, I will lie because the consequence of telling the truth may get in the way of what I want to do.

These are from an article on Husbands who lie: http://www.deepwaters.info/cheerupyourwife/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=58

It's was a very clear article and helped my friend put a lot of her feelings into words.
Forgiveness and rebuilding trust isn't easy, Good luck!


There is a lot of wisdom in this!:thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
From the article:

In scripture, very strong language is used to describe how God feels about lying: it is described as an abomination and detestable. What does that mean in plain language? It means that God hates lying; He regards it with horror; He finds it utterly and completely repulsive and disgusting. If God feels that way about lying, shouldn't we?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JaneFW

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
8,058
752
61
IRL
✟11,369.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yeah, I guess that our kids have it down pat. The middle boy was supposed to go for driving practice last night, but my husband was asleep on the sofa. So ds called the school, and when they said there would be a $25 charge for canceling so close to the practice, he lied to them about why he couldn't come. I asked him not to do that again. He said he thought he was saving us $25. I said I would rather pay the $25 than lie - and I realized that it was true. I hate lying so much now, that give me the $25 fee any time.
 
Upvote 0

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
Yeah, I guess that our kids have it down pat. The middle boy was supposed to go for driving practice last night, but my husband was asleep on the sofa. So ds called the school, and when they said there would be a $25 charge for canceling so close to the practice, he lied to them about why he couldn't come. I asked him not to do that again. He said he thought he was saving us $25. I said I would rather pay the $25 than lie - and I realized that it was true. I hate lying so much now, that give me the $25 fee any time.

I understand that one completely. The problem with someone who lies so easily is that you can never, ever trust them to be telling the truth. Most of us tell the occasional little white lie, but tell the truth for the vast majority of the time.

The Bible says of satan that he is a liar, the father of all lies, and the truth is not in him. That is the problem; if we have a liar to deal with, far too often the truth is not anywhere to be found in them; everything is a lie. They are not occasional, once in a blue moon liars, but habitual ones. And they even lie to themselves.
 
Upvote 0

dallasapple

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2006
9,845
1,169
✟13,920.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I understand that one completely. The problem with someone who lies so easily is that you can never, ever trust them to be telling the truth. Most of us tell the occasional little white lie, but tell the truth for the vast majority of the time.

The Bible says of satan that he is a liar, the father of all lies, and the truth is not in him. That is the problem; if we have a liar to deal with, far too often the truth is not anywhere to be found in them; everything is a lie. They are not occasional, once in a blue moon liars, but habitual ones. And they even lie to themselves.

I agree...and one thing I've noticed about habitual liars is even something they have acknowledged as the truth in the past..over time they will "re-write" history to the point in their minds I think ..the oppostie of whats the truth is what really happened...and specifically if its something in the past that they were at fault over..Like wait a minute..I changed my mind..I didnt really do that...here is what actually happenned..

I was actually shocked (again ..Im surprised I can still be thrown for loop) at my husbands (24 years later remember) NOW reason I call it for why he wanted to marry me is completely different than his reasons at the time and how he acted act the time ..If I wait long enough his reason will change to something else..He did the same thing with his cheating..at the time his reason he gave me...later (like 10 years later) his reason had magically completely changed..

Even though what they had in common both put the blame on me..(in the usual IWM way)..and the reason he married me made him out to be some sort of martyre..(when at the time he begged me ..I did NOT want to get married I finally did under an ultimatum(marry me now or Im leaving you )..Now its replayed in his mind as some sort of sacrifice to right some wrongs he had committed against me..to 'do the right thing"..Whats really funny..is that actually is a LOT closer to one of the primary reasons I married HIM(not that Im a martyre though..but to "make up to him" for something I had done wrong and "prove" I loved him....and we had a son ..and it would be "best case scenerio(right thing) for us to marry....Which is making me think right now of Designer Moms husband (not the specifics) but what they said about her husband trying to "absorb HER personality since he doesnt know what his is or "doesnt have one"....

Hmmm...

Dallas
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Catherineanne

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2004
22,924
4,645
Europe
✟76,860.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Widowed
I just dug this thread up, because I needed it as a reference for a friend. Catherineanne......I vote that you write a blog or something. You have explained this all so well.

I have been away for a while, sorry.

I have a blog, but I find it very difficult to write about anything personal on it, because I have a dissociative disorder.

iconismus.wordpress.com
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.