When did liberal become such a dirty word?

tatteredsoul

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2016
1,941
1,034
New York/Int'l
✟14,624.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I was waiting for your thread :)
I honestly don't really know. Perhaps because liberalism became one of the most important tendencies in the westernized world and that it seems impossible to totally combine an established dogma and liberalism. The ones choosing the dogma are then hostile to the ones who did not. Liberalism if often seen as a kind of threat. I don't know if this is really one or not. People often make the confusion between a kind of extreme liberalism (which is an excess to me) and a moderate liberalism.

This post is sort of blind beyond page 1, but I really like this answer and others.

I would say perhaps liberalism is threatening because it implies change - and some people may not have the foundation to stay rigid even in a medium of change. So, they attack the thoughtform. The fact that it is an abstraction makes it even more threatening: you can't physically beat, molest, rape, abuse, kill, torture, exile, nuke, go to war with, starve, imprison, or capture liberalism (same with the opposite end of spectrum.) So it becomes a sort of ethereal offense - one step from being a haunting of mean old Nana visiting you in the middle of the night.

I am personally spiritually conservative and politically independent. Liberals don't bother me even if/when I disagree with them.

I will say this: there is a fringe group of liberals that are downright militants (same with the rest of the respective spectrum.) And, from experience, some of these liberals are downright scary in terms of what they are capable and want to do when people do not align to their collective thought. So, maybe the people who use use liberal(ism) as a derogatory term are talking about those fringe liberals.
 
Upvote 0

One Voice Among Many1

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2015
2,328
2,151
✟20,953.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Green
And may I add, I don't want people to feel a sense of political correctness. Just thoughtfulness. Some of us are like wounded birds who need to learn to fly again. :)

Very true, Paul.

*Bumping this discussion up*
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,039
13,063
✟1,077,460.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I think that in uncertain times some people desperately need certainty. They need structure--whether the structure is right or wrong or whether it allows them to grow as human beings or not.

They get angry at people who are willing to swim in uncharted waters because those people are upsetting all their assumptions and structures and striking away at their desperation.

Where I live now, finding fellow liberals is like finding pearls of great price!
 
Upvote 0

tadoflamb

no identificado
Feb 20, 2007
16,415
7,531
Diocese of Tucson
✟74,331.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It's not dirty in Vancouver. It's normal. I haven't lived in Toronto that long but I don't think it's dirty here either.

You're from Vancouver? :bow:

What a beautiful city.

My wife and I were there for the women's World Cup in 2015.

069.JPG
 
Upvote 0

Shiloh Raven

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2016
12,509
11,495
Texas
✟228,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have no idea when liberal became a bad word, but it irritates me when I read comments that degrade and judge liberal Catholics and other liberal Christians.

After all the fuss and complaints against liberals I have seen lately, I feel like wearing the label of liberal like a badge of honor. And I dare say that I am proud to be called a 'bleeding heart liberal' if that describes me caring for my fellow man and not wanting anyone, regardless of who they are, to face discrimination and prejudice.

So, to quote John F. Kennedy, who we all know was Catholic.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

And I still feel exactly the same way as I did then.
 
Upvote 0

Tallguy88

We shall see the King when he comes!
Supporter
Jan 13, 2009
32,459
7,737
Parts Unknown
✟240,396.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

Martinius

Catholic disciple of Jesus
Jul 2, 2010
3,573
2,915
The woods and lakes of the Great North
✟60,225.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Historically among Christianity? Probably when people claiming to be liberals sent nuns to the guillotine, shot priests, blew up cathedrals, banned public displays of religion, and various other atrocities continuing into the modern day in some places and being advocated among extremist liberals even in the West.
"Claiming to be" may be the operative term here, or perhaps "labeled" liberals works, too. From what I know of history, it seems that more nuns (and priests and bishops) have been killed by those on the right than on by those on the left. And many churches and cathedrals have been damaged or destroyed by wars, which were usually started and led by those on the right. The Church and its members have been victimized much more by the reactionary right than by liberals.
 
Upvote 0

Tallguy88

We shall see the King when he comes!
Supporter
Jan 13, 2009
32,459
7,737
Parts Unknown
✟240,396.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
"Claiming to be" may be the operative term here, or perhaps "labeled" liberals works, too. From what I know of history, it seems that more nuns (and priests and bishops) have been killed by those on the right than on by those on the left. And many churches and cathedrals have been damaged or destroyed by wars, which were usually started and led by those on the right. The Church and its members have been victimized much more by the reactionary right than by liberals.
I mean, can we really say that French and Spanish Republicanism or Bolshevism or Maoism were not liberal ideologies? Not mainstream these days, but they certainly did their damage enough to make Christians wary of Leftist ideologies. Which could be a contributing factor in the current day with "liberal" seeming to be a bad word.

And I'm not sure I would agree with your premis. While conservative dicttatorships certainly have killed priests and harmed the Church, it wasn't so often due to ideology, but more often because the Church was opposing them (such as Nazi Germany or Ecquador). But it wasn't a concerted effort to wipe out religion or to make it heel completely because they considered religion to be the enemy. More just a "shut up and don't interfere with us" mentality.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,039
13,063
✟1,077,460.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
In my experience, the people who do violence are the ones with the guns, and in the United States that's the conservatives and the red staters and, most especially, the ones who tell us (as Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa does) that she keeps her gun "in case the government oversteps its bounds."

Then, of course, there's the militia types, like the ones in the Oklahoma hills whose daughter I taught piano to for two years. I was just an innocent northeastern babe in the woods, so how in the world was I to know that by hanging out my shingle I might bring bombing conspirators into my home :( ?

The liberals are the idealists--people in the U.S. have nothing to fear from them.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Shiloh Raven
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,262
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
You're from Vancouver? :bow:

What a beautiful city.

My wife and I were there for the women's World Cup in 2015.

View attachment 183099

It's not where I was born but we lived there for a few years! It's SO BEAUTIFUL. We live in Toronto now. I miss Vancouver. That's a great picture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tadoflamb
Upvote 0

Tallguy88

We shall see the King when he comes!
Supporter
Jan 13, 2009
32,459
7,737
Parts Unknown
✟240,396.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
In my experience, the people who do violence are the ones with the guns, and in the United States that's the conservatives and the red staters and, most especially, the ones who tell us (as Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa does) that she keeps her gun "in case the government oversteps its bounds."

Then, of course, there's the militia types, like the ones in the Oklahoma hills whose daughter I taught piano to for two years. I was just an innocent northeastern babe in the woods, so how in the world was I to know that by hanging out my shingle I might bring bombing conspirators into my home :( ?

The liberals are the idealists--people in the U.S. have nothing to fear from them.
Concealed carriers are statistically among the most law abiding group in the entire country, even more than police officers.
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,039
13,063
✟1,077,460.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I have posted statistics before on how homes with guns place all of their occupants in much greater danger than occupants of gun-free homes, so much so that in 2000 the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended that homes with children remove all guns from the home.

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2012/12/health-risk-having-gun-home

So yes, people are safer with liberals. I feel much more relaxed in liberal groups. I feel safer in NY (where 5% of people own guns) than in my own state, where 56% of people do.

Of course, I do feel that America is in greater danger from conservatives than from liberals--in the past I would have said it was only because of their poisonous politics. But it's the guns, too.
 
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,262
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
I definitely feel safer not being around guns. There's not as much of a gun culture where I live now. Thank God. I saw a man get shot when I was little in Chicago (a super nice area of it that's way lower in crime, btw). He carried a gun to my sister's school bc he was wanting to confront the mom of his son during pick up. The police shot him dead in front of us. I don't have stress about that anymore bc people can't carry guns like that here.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shiloh Raven

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2016
12,509
11,495
Texas
✟228,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In my experience, the people who do violence are the ones with the guns, and in the United States that's the conservatives and the red staters and, most especially, the ones who tell us (as Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa does) that she keeps her gun "in case the government oversteps its bounds."

Then, of course, there's the militia types, like the ones in the Oklahoma hills whose daughter I taught piano to for two years. I was just an innocent northeastern babe in the woods, so how in the world was I to know that by hanging out my shingle I might bring bombing conspirators into my home :( ?

The liberals are the idealists--people in the U.S. have nothing to fear from them.

There is something seriously wrong with America's values when owning a gun is a right, but having accurate healthcare and an education is a privilege.
 
Upvote 0

tatteredsoul

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2016
1,941
1,034
New York/Int'l
✟14,624.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I have no idea when liberal became a bad word, but it irritates me when I read comments that degrade and judge liberal Catholics and other liberal Christians.

After all the fuss and complaints against liberals I have seen lately, I feel like wearing the label of liberal like a badge of honor. And I dare say that I am proud to be called a 'bleeding heart liberal' if that describes me caring for my fellow man and not wanting anyone, regardless of who they are, to face discrimination and prejudice.

So, to quote John F. Kennedy, who we all know was Catholic.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”


A very similar situation is how "social justice warrior" has become a disgusting phrase.

Since when is it disgusting to fight for the social JUSTICE of people?

But alas, we are in a time when up is down, bad is good, and classy is Kardashian.
 
Upvote 0

Shiloh Raven

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2016
12,509
11,495
Texas
✟228,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A very similar situation is how "social justice warrior" has become a disgusting phrase.

Since when is it disgusting to fight for the social JUSTICE of people?

But alas, we are in a time when up is down, bad is good, and classy is Kardashian.

Well, I am a social justice warrior, and if that is degraded and mocked among conservatives as the term liberal is, then so be it. If showing compassion for my fellow man and speaking out against their mistreatment is wrong, I would rather be wrong then be a part of the Right. I am not ashamed or afraid to stand up against social injustice or fight for civil rights and equality for people of color and LGBT who are still being oppressed and discriminated against in America today. I have been involved in political activism for many years and I will continue to be involved in fighting for social justice, despite any opposition and mockery from any conservative, even from among the religious right.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.” - John F. Kennedy
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tatteredsoul

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2016
1,941
1,034
New York/Int'l
✟14,624.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Well, I am a social justice warrior, and if that is degraded and mocked among conservatives as the term liberal is, then so be it. If showing compassion for my fellow man and speaking out against their mistreatment is wrong, I would rather be wrong then be a part of the Right. I am not ashamed or afraid to stand up against social injustice or fight for civil rights and equality for people of color and LGBT who are still being oppressed and discriminated against in America today. I have been involved in political activism for many years and I will continue to be involved in fighting for social justice, despite any opposition and mockery from any conservative, even from among the religious right.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.” - John F. Kennedy

I wonder how "liberal" people would see Christ - you know, hanging out with other politicians who may not be from your political party, letting alleged harlots and thieves eat with Him, healing undesirables, and so on.

Makes me think it will be even easier for people to fall for this sham of a "Christ" to come. In reality as Christ said, indeed there have already been and already are antichrist.

Anyway, keep it up. Better to be reviled for doing what is right than be extolled for doing the dispicable.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Shiloh Raven
Upvote 0