When did liberal become such a dirty word?

tadoflamb

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oh I am so sorry that anyone would ever yell at you, you are always such an honest and gentle soul :(

And I was their spiritual advisor! :preach:

It's OK. We're still all friends. They were mostly worried about money, of which we had plenty. There's a whole Vincentian spirituality that goes along with that as well.

should we separate the political Conservative from the theological conservative?
I have said before, in this thread or maybe the one Michie made in OBOB (or maybe both) that using political terms for theological views adds to the confusion
I do not blame you for using this terminology, it is part of the popular conversation on this issue
but I also think we have to distance ourselves from it a bit

like the conversation is on "Liberal Catholics" and "Conservative Catholics"
so we have to use these terms if we are going to have meaningful dialogue with people
we have to understand these terms if we want to have any impact with the dialogue

but at the same time, I think we also need to understand that these terms are both misrepresentations of the faith and are poor analogies because they were made to describe political things instead of theological things

it is like comparing a Nation to a kindergarten classroom
sure some analogies can be made, but if you go into any depth the analogy becomes more convoluted

I think the problem continues to be trying to fit that square peg into a round hole. Like in StVdeP, I can't reconcile politically conservative attitudes towards money and the poor with the teachings of the Church. There's other issues, immigration would be a big one around here. Again, here's where I trend to be more in union with my local priests, the Benedictine sisters, my bishop, and the pope more than I do with political conservatives.

What's interesting, at least at my parish, political conservative doesn't necessarily add up to theologically conservative. Theologically meaning, as Colin said, to 'conserve' that which has been handed down. In that way, I'm more conservative than the political conservatives. They call me Pope Tad.:priest:
 
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Davidnic

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I can't reconcile politically conservative attitudes towards money and the poor with the teachings of the Church.

Because they can't be.
 
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Martinius

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So I am a conservative , progressive Catholic or a progressive , conservative Catholic . Take your pick . It doesn't matter either way .

Conserve "the deposit of faith" .

Reform when and where "the deposit of faith" needs to be presented in a way meaningful to the people of our time .
THIS post may be the best post I have ever read on any CF forum. I feel essentially the same way but I love the way you describe your position. I get weary of people asking how one can be Catholic if they are progressive (usually using the liberal label). I say I cannot fathom being Catholic and not being progressive.

Thanks, Colin, for your wonderful post. This is the kind of rational discussion I like to find when I come here.
 
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Martinius

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What's interesting, at least at my parish, political conservative doesn't necessarily add up to theologically conservative. Theologically meaning, as Colin said, to 'conserve' that which has been handed down. In that way, I'm more conservative than the political conservatives. They call me Pope Tad.:priest:
I was thinking the same thing about our parish. It is located smack dab in the midst of Republican country, and many of our members are politically conservative. Yet our parish is very progressive, with many ministries and programs that point to a more "liberal" orientation. At the same time, there is nothing unorthodox about worship, liturgy or devotions. In fact, I would call it all fairly traditional. And you know, I really feel at home there. It's a great combination.
 
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Martinius

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One more thought. I am into American History, especially from the post-Civil War on. At one time in the past century, a "liberal" designation was good. It meant to be open minded and willing to consider new ideas. It did not have a primarily political association. Liberal Arts colleges were the big thing in the mid-20th century, as students wanted a broad education, rather than to just enter a profession or learn one skill. Over time, the political meaning of liberal took over and has been carried over to other areas. Which is why when people hear the term "liberal Catholic" or "Liberal Christian" they think of someone who is confused and who opposes Christian teaching. Not so.

Perhaps a word like "progressive", as Colin used it, would be a better description of Catholics who are similar to Pope Francis in their approach to our faith. Because that is how I see what being a liberal Catholic really is.
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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I think this sub-forum provides a safe haven for those of us who may have "controversial" views on Catholicism.
There's no point me going to another sub-forum and being ridiculed for stating what I think. And then feeling guilty for having those thoughts. And further doubting myself. Some of us need a refuge where we won't be attacked and a chance to think through things carefully. Also there is no point in me debating a topic with someone who has a completely different mindset. We just end up at a stalemate with neither of us learning anything new. That's where I stand at the moment. things might change as my faith grows and develops.
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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It's become clear to me that people really did need this forum for it's stated purpose. I'm glad it's turning into what it is.

I wholeheartedly agree with you there, Tad. I am glad to see this forum thriving too.
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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I think this sub-forum provides a safe haven for those of us who may have "controversial" views on Catholicism.
There's no point me going to another sub-forum and being ridiculed for stating what I think. And then feeling guilty for having those thoughts. And further doubting myself. Some of us need a refuge where we won't be attacked and a chance to think through things carefully. Also there is no point in me debating a topic with someone who has a completely different mindset. We just end up at a stalemate with neither of us learning anything new. That's where I stand at the moment. things might change as my faith grows and develops.

Agreed. Well said.
 
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Rhamiel

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I think this sub-forum provides a safe haven for those of us who may have "controversial" views on Catholicism.
There's no point me going to another sub-forum and being ridiculed for stating what I think. And then feeling guilty for having those thoughts. And further doubting myself. Some of us need a refuge where we won't be attacked and a chance to think through things carefully. Also there is no point in me debating a topic with someone who has a completely different mindset. We just end up at a stalemate with neither of us learning anything new. That's where I stand at the moment. things might change as my faith grows and develops.
a safe haven for controversial views?
how can they be "controversial" if they are protected and we can not converse on them?

also this is a Liberal Catholic forum, to be liberal is to be open to new ideas, to avoid engaging with someone just because they have a different mindset does not sound very liberal

I am kind of confused by this forum but I like some of the conversations that happen here
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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we can not converse on them?
You seem to be conversing on threads here quite often. Rhamiel :)
And are welcome to visit here as much as you like.
No bad vibes, my friend.
Don't see the point in debating though, to be honest.
 
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tadoflamb

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I've only been a participant in this forum for a short while but it's my opinion that everyone suffers, as I do, from a Holy Longing. Each of us has a desire for a deeper relationship with God, and it seems there's a lot of individuals here who have an interest in Catholicism but at some point have been, offended or insulted or in other ways hurt by the Church.

As a convert, I experience it, but somehow got over it. The end result is that I haven't had very much meaningful to say on Catholic internet forums due to fear of committing error or falling into schism.

It's my feeling that these people who struggle and who have questions or objections aren't to be met with our derision, but so many times that seems to be the case, and hence, the need for this forum. I found it to be a good time to reflect on my own behavior. Have I chased anyone away from the faith? I'm afraid I have.

I find it interesting that the word liberal has such negative connotations, that it's possible to find refuge behind it. I knew I used to not to want to have anything to do with 'liberal' Catholics and as such ignored this forum. Now that I'm here I've discovered it's not the hot bed of heresy or the deposit of dissent I thought it was but merely a group of people, much like myself, trying to work out their salvation with 'fear and trembling'.
 
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Colin

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I've only been a participant in this forum for a short while but it's my opinion that everyone suffers, as I do, from a Holy Longing.

Tad , when I got my computer the reason for my joining Christian forums was with the hope of having what you call a "Holy Longing" satisfied .

I wanted to find a source which would help quench my thirst and nourish my spirituality .

I did find some of that , but mostly I found arguments about frivolous , trivial matters . The problem was I got sucked into the arguments , because I don't find it easy to leave unchallenged matters which I know to be wrong . But that's not good for me ....... endless negative arguing which ends up making me into a person I would rather not be .
 
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Landon Caeli

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I've always thought of the terms "Conservative" and "Liberal" as economic words dealing with monetary things or physical objects.

"Progressive" and "Traditional", to me, seem to describe attitudes of people.
 
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Davidnic

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I think the internet gives us the opportunity to see that Catholicism is bigger than our parish. And that is needed. What some may call a liberal Catholic in one country would be not that at all in another...and they would even be astonished at the label.

What is good about this area at the moment is it has honest fellowship...searching for answers and people willing to give each other a break. That is a good thing when you are looking for answers or just fellowship.
 
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