When did evolution begin?

[OldWiseGuy]

Bill Nye "The Science Guy" assures us that the particular fossils found in the successive layers of sediments, wherever they are found around the earth, do not appear in the previous or later sediment layers. If this is true none of those particular life forms, unique only to those sediment layers, evolved at all, but were destroyed when that period ended.

So, if evolution did occur to those species it must have occurred during the very brief period between those time frames, for which there is no fossil evidence. And the change would have been quite drastic.

Or, if evolution did occur during the forming of those layers the evolved species within all perished when that period abruptly ended, thus interrupting the whole evolutionary process.

So, if everything perished in the previous layer, what was left to evolve in succeeding layers?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Bill Nye "The Science Guy" assures us that the particular fossils found in the successive layers of sediments, wherever they are found around the earth, do not appear in the previous or later sediment layers.

Where did he assure us of this? He may have said something similar, but as you've presented it, it seems a bit careless.

So, if everything perished in the previous layer

Everything did not perish. Problem solved.

 

[pgp_protector]

When did evolution begin?
When life started reproducing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Where did he assure us of this? He may have said something similar, but as you've presented it, it seems a bit careless.



Everything did not perish. Problem solved.

If organisms are absent from succeeding layers they must have perished.

 

[Armoured]

Bill Nye "The Science Guy" assures us that the particular fossils found in the successive layers of sediments, wherever they are found around the earth, do not appear in the previous or later sediment layers. If this is true none of those particular life forms, unique only to those sediment layers, evolved at all, but were destroyed when that period ended.

So, if evolution did occur to those species it must have occurred during the very brief period between those time frames, for which there is no fossil evidence. And the change would have been quite drastic.

Or, if evolution did occur during the forming of those layers the evolved species within all perished when that period abruptly ended, thus interrupting the whole evolutionary process.

So, if everything perished in the previous layer, what was left to evolve in succeeding layers?

Evolution began the instant the first self replicating chemicals got complex enough that they could have an error in the replication and still be viable.

 

[Armoured]

When did evolution begin?
When life started reproducing.

Before "life". Evolution was present long before in simple self reproducing chemicals.

See also, Spiegelman's Monster.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Evolution began the instant the first self replicating chemicals got complex enough that they could have an error in the replication and still be viable.

Self replicating chemicals? Evidence?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Before "life". Evolution was present long before in simple self reproducing chemicals.

See also, Spiegelman's Monster.

How was evolution present long before in simple self reproducing chemicals, what self reproducing chemicals?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Where did he assure us of this? He may have said something similar, but as you've presented it, it seems a bit careless.



Everything did not perish. Problem solved.

In his debate with Ken Ham. He was quite emphatic that no similiar fossils were found in succeeding sediment layers, either in the Grand Canyon, or anywhere on earth. He went on to challenge anyone to find such fossils.

 

[pgp_protector]

Before "life". Evolution was present long before in simple self reproducing chemicals.

See also, Spiegelman's Monster.

If you're talking about something other than biological evolution then yea, but biological evolution by definition sorta requires life.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Evolution began when God created life.

The only contention a Christian or monotheist needs to have with evolution is that man evolved from animals. Animals evolve. Man evolves.

Easy peasy.

 

[Armoured]

If you're talking about something other than biological evolution then yea, but biological evolution by definition sorta requires life.

I'm talking about the precursor to life. Cellular life, any way. The point at which chemistry becomes "life" is debatable.

 

[Armoured]

In his debate with Ken Ham. He was quite emphatic that no similiar fossils were found in succeeding sediment layers, either in the Grand Canyon, or anywhere on earth. He went on to challenge anyone to find such fossils.

Could you maybe provide a quote? That doesn't sound right to me. There are several species found across multiple geological layers.

 

[Loudmouth]

Self replicating chemicals? Evidence?

Look in a mirror.

The question we are trying to address is where the dividing line is between evolution and abiogenesis. All we are considering are the principles involved.

As for when evolution starts, it starts when you have imperfect replicators competing for limited resources. If those first imperfect replicators came about through supernatural magic, the principle still applies.

 

[Loudmouth]

If organisms are absent from succeeding layers they must have perished.

You do realize that organisms can have offspring before they perish, right? In 200 years, every human on Earth will have perished, yet there will probably still be humans. Do you understand why?

 

[Loudmouth]

In his debate with Ken Ham. He was quite emphatic that no similiar fossils were found in succeeding sediment layers, either in the Grand Canyon, or anywhere on earth. He went on to challenge anyone to find such fossils.

Why would Nye say that when it is the complete opposite of what we would expect from evolution. With evolution, we would expect to see similar species both above and below a species in the geologic record.

There is a transcript of the debate. It would be most helpful if you could directly quote Nye from those transcripts.

http://www.youngearth.org/index.php...m/21-transcript-of-ken-ham-vs-bill-nye-debate

These are the closest Nye quotes I could find:

"You find down low what you might consider as rudimentary sea animals. Up above, you’ll find the famous trilobites; above that you might find some clams or oysters, and above that you'll find some mammals. You never, ever find a higher animal mixed in with the lower one. You never find a lower one trying to swim its way to a higher one."

It seems that Bill Nye did say that there were succession of similar animals, contrary to what you claim.

"In the explanation provided by traditional science of how we came to be, [Slide: cladistics diagram of species, the tree of life], we find, as Mr. Ham alluded to many times in his recent remarks, we find a sequence of animals in what geologists call the fossil record. When we look at the layers, that you find in Kentucky, if you look at them carefully, you find a sequence of animals. A succession."

From skimming and word searching, I can't find anything close to what you claim Nye said.

 

[Ben West]

Evolution began when God created life.

The only contention a Christian or monotheist needs to have with evolution is that man evolved from animals. Animals evolve. Man evolves.

Easy peasy.

God created and brought forth from the water "every living creature that moveth" from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 Science agrees and shows that life First appeared in the water on our Earth some 3.77 Billion years ago.

Adam, the first Human, was "formed" of the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day, long before ANY other living creature. Gen 2:4-7 God's Truth in Genesis shows that Humans are a special Creation destined to have dominion or rule over ALL other living creatures which were made AFTER Humans were made. Gen 1:28

Now, it's your time to tell us HOW Humans could have possibly evolved from creatures who were NOT made until Billions of years after Adam was made. Somebody's interpretation is wrong and it's NOT God. It's the False ToE which is UnTrue Scripturally, Scientifically and Historically. Amen?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

God created and brought forth from the water "every living creature that moveth" from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 Science agrees and shows that life First appeared in the water on our Earth some 3.77 Billion years ago.

Adam, the first Human, was "formed" of the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day, long before ANY other living creature. Gen 2:4-7 God's Truth in Genesis shows that Humans are a special Creation destined to have dominion or rule over ALL other living creatures which were made AFTER Humans were made. Gen 1:28

Now, it's your time to tell us HOW Humans could have possibly evolved from creatures who were NOT made until Billions of years after Adam was made. Somebody's interpretation is wrong and it's NOT God. It's the False ToE which is UnTrue Scripturally, Scientifically and Historically. Amen?

I think maybe you are using a different meaning of the word 'contention' than I meant. I meant contention as a heated disagreement. What I am saying is that Christians get all up in arms over the mere word 'evolution' and its meaning. But the only part of evolution that is disagreeable as a believer in the One Almighty God is that man evolved from animals.

Are we in agreement?

But to address the rest of your quote, man was made last, on Day 6, not Day 3. Animals came before God's man, and the fossil record records this as well.

 

[Loudmouth]

I think maybe you are using a different meaning of the word 'contention' than I meant. I meant contention as a heated disagreement. What I am saying is that Christians get all up in arms over the mere word 'evolution' and its meaning. But the only part of evolution that is disagreeable as a believer in the One Almighty God is that man evolved from animals.

Are we in agreement?

But to address the rest of your quote, man was made last, on Day 6, not Day 3. Animals came before God's man, and the fossil record records this as well.

That could be said about almost all modern species. Chihuahuas came after man appeared in the world, so does that mean the Bible is wrong?

 

[Armoured]

That could be said about almost all modern species. Chihuahuas came after man appeared in the world, so does that mean the Bible is wrong?

"kinds" claim in 3...2...