When did dinosaurs turn into birds?

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Worth to duplicate this from a Youtube comment to here:

"1) Why don't you take me step by step how did the dinosaur became a bird . Please include all the fossil evidence"

I refer this to the answers to questions #2, 3, 4 and 5, but since you wanted fossils, here are a few:

Incusvasaurus, caudotheryx, Avimimus, Microvenator, Chirostenotes, Anzu, Protoaechaeopthery, Similicaudipteryx, Caudipteryx, Oviraptor, Citipati, Wulatelong, Khaan, Conchoraptor, Ajanciengenia, Heyuannia, Talos, Sinorhithoides, Gobinvenator, Troodon, Zanabazar, Mei, Byronosaurus, Confuschis, Microraptor, Epidexipteryx, Scansorioptery, Yi, Wellnhoferia, Jeholornis, Sapeornis, Confucisurnis, Yanoris, Balaur, Microraptor, Velociraptor, Buitenraptor, Sinornithosaurus, Protachera, Anchiorni, Jinfengopteryx, Sinovenator, Archaeopteryx, Paracoracias.

To mention a few I know of, but there are several hundreds, if not thousands, of them if you want more....

"2) How many physiological changes it needs to go through to turn into a bird?"


I am not an expert, but I would say 3.

But it depends on what you prefer to call a bird or bird like, most bird features are already present in Eumanorpatoria (including flight), so lose of teeth and tail and fusing the finger digits is all that is needed to be classified as a true bird, all the other bird characteristics was already present in dinosaurs since at least theropods, if not earlier.

If you saw a Oviraptorosaur today such as Avimimus you would confuse it and its behavior with a bird, but it isn't a bird far from. If you saw a Troodontid such as Anchiornis or Dromaeosaur such as Microraptor, you would swear it was a bird, but it isn't. Birds does not have three fingers, tails, teeth and four wings.

Oviraptorsaurs, Troodontids and Dromaeosaurs are not birds, even thou they look like birds to us, they are variation of feathered dinosaurs. Just like birds is another variation of feathered dinosaurs.

"3) How many changes in behavioral traits needs to developed to turn into a bird."


Nothing. They was already present in dinosaurs.

"4) How these changes were seamlessly administered without guidance?"


Not sure what you are asking about, but based on fossil evidence, it seams to be no plan at all, but every possible wired combination you can think of seams to have been tested out by evolution and it just so happen that the present form of feathered dinosaurs (dinosaurs with no teeth and tail, and fused fused finger digits) are the one that remains. I would not call the evolution of birds "guided" but more like a coincident ,that what we today call, birds happens to be the one group of all wired combination that survived.

"5) How many years did each step to be completed?"


They were already present in dinosaurs so they did not had to take any timer to be "completed" in birds since they already was there. You seams to think the step from dinosaurs to bird is a big jump of some sort, but it isn't, it was very gradual and smooth. A bird is a dinosaurs and what you call "bird features" and wonder how they evolved is actually dinosaur features. Birds are dinosaurs, because they have dinosaurs traits, birds never evolved from dinosaurs into bird - they have always been dinosaurs and still are, they are just a variation of dinosaurs (avian dinosaurs - compare this with avian mammals such as bats; you don't ask when bats evolved from mammals to bats do you, because you know they ARE mammals, don't you?). When you look at a bird today, that is pretty much how dinosaurs looked like back then as well (just like a bat looks like AND IS a mammal). Therefore "bird" traits never had to evolve in birds, just as bats never had to evolve mammal traits, because the traits was already present for hundred of millions of years before birds even existed.

What you like to call a "bird" is not an absolute things, but a matter of subjective definition. I refer this back to my answer of question #3.
 
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PsychoSarah

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They didn't.
You are going to need a lot more than that for your post to actually matter. Anyone can make a claim against or for something, but in order for it to function in a debate, you need evidence to back it. The OP already presented some of theirs, so you're going to have to refute it at a bare minimum, or present evidence stronger than that presented, in order to win.
 
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Dinosaurs turned into birds? Wow. Never heard that before. I did hear that birds are the most 'similar' animals to dinosaurs, but that they both developed independently.

...I don't believe it.
 
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Hieronymus

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You are going to need a lot more than that for your post to actually matter. Anyone can make a claim against or for something, but in order for it to function in a debate, you need evidence to back it. The OP already presented some of theirs, so you're going to have to refute it at a bare minimum, or present evidence stronger than that presented, in order to win.
Feather are highly specialised things for flight.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Feather are highly specialised things for flight.
-_- and? You do realize that evolution can explain highly specialized body structures, right?
Also, feathers do have many secondary functions, such as mate attraction and warmth.
 
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Hieronymus

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-_- I can give you the explanation sometime tomorrow or the day after, because I really need to get to sleep, and I have a lot of college work to do.
I'll be off for some weeks later today, but specialized structures need specialized code.
Code doesn't write itself.
 
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joshua 1 9

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"2) How many physiological changes it needs to go through to turn into a bird?" I am not an expert, but I would say 3.
Only three changes to go from a dinosaur to a bird? Are you a Fundy in disguise because I though only FSTDT. This clearly should be on the top 100 list of agnosticis say the darnest things.
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joshua 1 9

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I'll be off for some weeks later today, but specialized structures need specialized code.
Code doesn't write itself.
According to they theory of evolution code writes itself.
Chuck+Norris+writes+code+that+optimizes+itself.jpg
 
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Dinosaurs, birds, and man were all on the Ark at the same time.

I think dinosaurs were well extinct by the time of the Ark!!!
 
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Ophiolite

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Only three changes to go from a dinosaur to a bird? Are you a Fundy in disguise because I though only FSTDT. This clearly should be on the top 100 list of agnosticis say the darnest things.
You were not paying attention, were you. Most of the features that the casual student of biology/palaeontology might associate with birds were already present in the dinosaurs. Therefore, argues insitu, very few changes were necessary to make the transition.

Now, let's imagine I disagree with insitu's number and think that twenty eight changes were required. Does this indicate that evolutionary theory is in crisis? Does this mean that the relationship between birds and dinosaurs is refuted? Not at all. The division between dinosaur and bird is an artificial one, introduced for the convenience of classification. (Man is strongly disposed to classify.) Wherever we place that divide makes no difference to the continuity of evolution from dinosaur to bird.

I don't expect you to properly consider, understand and accept that reasoning, but then I've given up writing for you and have turned my attention to the interested reader who might be tempted by your empty rhetoric.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Yet the theory can't account for how...
Theistic Evolution says that DNA is the "Language of God".

"In the very moment of that flash in which the universe was created, an unimaginable burst of energy, God also had the plan of how that would coalesce into stars and galaxies, planets, and how life would arrive on a small planet near the outer rim of a spiral galaxy. And ultimately, over hundreds of millions of years, give rise to creatures with intelligence and in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil. And all of that happened in his mind in the blink of an eye. While it may seem to us that this whole process has the risk of randomness and, therefore, an unpredictable outcome, that was not the case for God." (Francis Collins)

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Scien...tific-Adventures.aspx?p=2#VHQahbz9W5GW1El0.99
 
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