What's your idea of a/the "perfect" world, or society?

[Neogaia777]

In today's America, almost everyone has mental issues. Just look at a couple current threads right here in the non-denom forum to see how many have a myriad of issues. Look at "pill time" in the public schools.

Giving people a free pass for their "issues" serves no one's best interests. Every mass shooter in the last few years has had a history of mental illness and everyone just patted them on the head and said, "there's nothing you can do about it". Well, they found something to do about it!

We need to stop coddling people. Those who can be made to pull themselves up and get moving should, and those who are incapable need serious help--not just some unsupervised meds, but real institutional help.

Don't judge him to harshly, you guys, I can understand his point, I think he's trying to say that in order to have a perfect world, we need a way to sort out the fakers, scammers, or those who are just plain (please excuse me for this) just plain lazy... They do exist... and in a perfect society, we need to sort out those who have true, proven, real illnesses and are "not able" (to work) because of it, from those who are "able-bodied" (able to work)

Now I will tell you that I have social anxiety issues, Depression, at times severe PTSD, am a paranoid scitzophrenic, and hear voices (have audio and visual hallucinations) and because of this I have my good days, and my bad days, and am unable to work, but I am not going to use this as excuse for bad or evil and wicked behavior (committing crimes) saying the voices or something told me to do it, everyday it takes hard work (very strenuous effort) on my part to combat these problems and try to overcome these issues, everyday is a great struggle and challenge for me just to function somewhat normally, and someday's I am fine (on a good day) but on a bad day, when I am having symptoms, it's all I can do to just hold myself together and keep from freaking out...

That being said a mentally disabled person, like myself, who goes out and commits a horendous crime, still has to be prosecuted, but I think It takes professionals to sort it out to as the level of sentence the person should receive, I would say it takes a professional Certified Psychologist to verify the nature of the persons disability, then a professional investigator to sift out whether or not a person is lying or not to as whether or not their disorder is real, or whether it was responsible for the persons committing the crime, (and perhaps a lie detector test) and then, a judge who then decides whether or not based on the other two professionals evaluations, whether or not the person is a danger or threat to society, and where they should go based upon the evidence presented, either to a mental institution, or a care home, or prison and for how long, based upon the evidence/evaluations.

If the Psychologist and the investigators evaluations are in conflict or seem to contradict each other, then the Judge is going to have a hard time deciding, but if it is in agreement that yes, this person does have a mental disorder that led to their crime, then it depends upon the crime, obviously if they killed or almost killed someone out of an act of brutality, or killed multiple people, then even if it is deemed that mental disorders were responsible, that person is still a danger and a threat to society, and we have to, prosecute them for the crime, they should go to either a lock down mental institution, for how long is up to the judge, and may be based on future psychological evaluations in the mental institution.

Now if, a person let's say robbed a house while nobody was home, but is known to be harmless and gentle, (maybe they were living on the streets and just desperate) and the investigator, and lie detector tests, and Psychologist are in agreement that mental disorders were responsible, then maybe that Judge would send them to a care home or something like that, until such a time that future psychological evaluations, were in agreement that the person could be rehabilitated and join normal society again...

It all depends on the circumstances and conclusions of the experts, and the Judge will have to ultimately decide, now if the person claims to having a mental disorder that led them to do it, but the psychologist and investigator believe he is lying, then he should be prosecuted like any other able-bodied, mentally able/capable person would be, which might mean a prison sentence, how long a prison sentence depends on the judge , the circumstances, and the nature of the crime...

We need skilled judges and professionals to sort out all the circumstances of these issue, before a decision can be made...

Anyways, just my opinion, in Jesus name,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

That's the problem. There are those who no longer can and there are those who no longer will.

If I have $100 to give away and I give to someone with a good story who is scamming me, then what do I give to the mentally or physically disabled, homeless, or elderly or orphaned children and women who have been brutally mistreated/abused when they come for help?

Long ago, perhaps a half century or more, people would find ways to get by on their own. Today, they search for ways to get by with someone else paying the bills.

There is a middle ground between letting orphans and widows starve and subsidizing the laziness of many of modern America's "poor". Neither extreme is a good place to be because the former is cruel and unnecessary and the latter is non-sustainable because people see others working the system and find a way to pile on the wagon. Pretty soon, you have everyone in the wagon and no one pulling anymore.

I agree that we need a better way to sort out those who no longer "can" and no longer "will"

But, using myself as an example, I was on the fence for about a year as to whether or not I personally no longer could, or no longer will, my pride for about a year while I was having all kinds of symtoms, kept me from admitting that I no longer "could"... I did not want to labeled as a crazy person who saw and heard things that caused severe PTSD and social anxiety and panic and paranoia disorders, For about a year, I just tried to push through it, ignore it and try to rise above it, but then as it only got worse, and then I was hospitalized, I finally had to admit I had a severe problem...

You gotta understand, I was one of those people who really, really liked working, especially the Jobs/field I chose, which was working with the mentally disabled, I had a passion for my work, and it was very personally fulfilling, as I felt like I was getting paid to serve a higher purpose, a job I would have gladly done even if I wasn't getting paid for it...

But when my problems (symptoms) started (the audio and visual hallucinations) the professionals call them, that gave me severe PTSD, and new social anxiety and panic and paranoia problems that made me want to isolate from society (people) At first, (for about a year of fighting it) I tried to shrug it off, but this only made things worse, eventually I was hospitalized, and at that time I was so scarred of everybody and everything, that I jumped at any (every) little noise (PTSD) and my heart would skip a beat, I couldn't even look anyone in the eye, I was too scared, the voices were happening all the time at that time, and I was afraid of them...

Now, Things are only somewhat controlled through medication, but when I have my bad days, which is on average every couple of days, I Isolate until the symptoms pass, I go to bed, and pray that God will let me start the next day anew, afresh, and that he would take away the voices and quell my fears, and I try to start the next day on a good note, and try to have a good day (I pray for it)

But it took a whole year of me struggling to finally admit I had a major problem, I once trained, worked with, and cared for the mentally disabled, so my pride for a whole year wouldn't allow me to admit that I had become one, I never wanted to give up working, I really do wish I could work, I greatly miss it, but unfortunetley, I had to finally admit that I can't do it anymore, and this was a very difficult admission for me (I had to swallow my pride), but the good news is that now instead of constantly trying to fight against and reject my disability, I am now trying a different approach, I have chosen to try and "embrace" it, I hope this approach works out for me, if I am successful, perhaps I can even return to working again someday, but for right now, I am still in the beginning stages of this new approach, so I don't know how effective it will be...

Well, just thought I'd share,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I kinda really relate to this character "Tam Elbrun" in this Star Trek episode "Tin Man" when I'm having an off day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ercF_ffaCG0&list=WL&index=114

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPihhiRumcI&list=WL&index=115

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snqO3742E_o&list=WL&index=116

Sorry I couldn't find it in one complete video, so it's split into three parts...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Sorry all, for making this about myself, I guess I should be discussing this with my counselor, but I needed someone to understand me, so I felt like full disclosure and being honest with you all, was the best bet, I will stop talking about me and my problems/difficulties now, and go back to the discussion at hand.

Thank you to those who chose to take the precious time out of their day to try and listen, thank you!

In Jesus name, God Bless

 

[seeingeyes]

Sorry all, for making this about myself, I guess I should be discussing this with my counselor, but I needed someone to understand me, so I felt like full disclosure and being honest with you all, was the best bet, I will stop talking about me and my problems/difficulties now, and go back to the discussion at hand.

Thank you to those who chose to take the precious time out of their day to try and listen, thank you!

In Jesus name, God Bless

I think you're wonderful, brother.

 

[1watchman]

One can imagine all kinds of things, and that may be kind of fun, but the reality according to the Bible is as I described here already, and real Bible students can attest to that. The only paradise and perfection will be in the reign of Christ, and it will be forthcoming for those who know and trust the Lord Jesus ---a wonderful and blessed time --even more than I described.

Thank you, Neogaia, for sharing your experience and insights too!

 

[Lollerskates]

Now, think very hard about this for a minute...? Is a "Utopia" even possible...?

I have trouble imagining the "perfect world" (practically and realistically), especially one that doesn't sacrifice freedom, and allows for the nature of the current "human condition", in the process...?

As it stands, I can't imagine (seem to see) the world or at least current western society going any other way than it already is...? Sure, there are some "changes" I'd like to see happen, but implementing those changes, and still allowing for freedom, and for the mistakes and errors that the (current) human condition seems to make, is the problem?

What's you idea of the "ideal", Utopian society...? How would like to see the world "change"? (practically and realistically) Or, if you were given the option to remake it, how would you? (practically and realistically)?

Is a "Utopian society" even possible, (practically and realistically) or is it just a dream? (Remember that you still have to allow for freedom, and, the current nature of the errors and mistakes that the (current) human condition seems to make.)

What are your ideas? Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

What's your "vision"?

God Bless!

The only way there could be a utopia is if the leader is perfect. That is it. Ideology matters not if the operator is even marginally corrupt. There is no such thing as a utopia when humans rule. Someone will always be left out in exchange for gain on the leadership side - whether that gain is tangible or abstract.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Sorry all, for making this about myself, I guess I should be discussing this with my counselor, but I needed someone to understand me, so I felt like full disclosure and being honest with you all, was the best bet, I will stop talking about me and my problems/difficulties now, and go back to the discussion at hand.

Thank you to those who chose to take the precious time out of their day to try and listen, thank you!

In Jesus name, God Bless

I appreciate your honesty. We are all God's work in progress.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I wouldn't mind more than two major political parties in the U.S. and maybe some campaign financing reform that levels the political playing field.

If we only have two choices and they both are corrupt, then ......

 

[Neogaia777]

I wouldn't mind more than two major political parties in the U.S. and maybe some campaign financing reform that levels the political playing field.

If we only have two choices and they both are corrupt, then ......

Good point, yes, I agree we definetly need that, right now it is like "bi-polar" nation, and coorupt...

But it seems like the whole west or the most forward thinking, (most advanced countries) way of thinking is split along these two lines: Conservative (holds onto the past, never embracing demanded by the people, future change) and liberal (always thinking of the future and disregarding heeding the lessons of the past.)

The saving money and cutting back and less spending but downsizing of many needed government programs (smaller government role, and less regulation/interference with businesses)vs, the more spending towards investing and expanding much needed government programs (larger government role and more regulation/interference with say, large global businesses)

And other things like these that our nation or some of the worlds most advanced countries seem to split 50/50 almost, right down the middle on, bi-polar nations or world I call it...

In your opinion, what would these "new parties" be, and what Ideals might they center themselves around? In order to rise up and compete (appeal to the people) with these two bi-polar parties?

Where would this third, or new party find it's niche, especially considering it is not just America but the whole world that is becoming split down these two party lines, as the west embraces liberalism (the future and cry and ideals of a younger generation) more and more, the east and the north are more strongly embracing (holding onto conservativeism)(the ideals of older "dinosaur" some would call it generation)

And I'm not even gonna mention the Muslim nations, (they are so, so far behind us in time that they never should have had access to modern technology, in my opinion) but they are ancient and ultra-radical conservative, to the point of being archaic, (again, just my opinion)... The future seems to be liberal democracy, but it's falling apart at the seams right now...

So, just "where" would this "new party" find it's niche?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

What about a "liberal republican" party?

I know, sounds like a contradiction in terms right, but check out these links, and let me know what you think:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...IS9zIY0zfiUxjDXdg&sig2=bMyHS7Ms-SFPM4v2fgiQtQ

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...zMjtYwmFlTQPxzr3A&sig2=cNM-LLkccwbH_0yQHNH2oQ

How would this party define itself?, I believe if you check out the links, I don't necessarily think it "has to be" a "contradiction" in terms...

Anyone else have any other ideas? (I know, we seemed to have moved onto a subject that probably belongs in the politics forum, but that's OK, right?)

God Bless!

 

[Autumnleaf]

The Democrat party and the Republican party are one and the same when it comes to their roots which are corporate money from near and far. Its like the bank bailout. The big banks contributed to the campaigns of both sides and when they wanted a tax payer bailout the banks won and the tax payers lost big. If you pay for both sides then whoever wins will owe you. Simple concept. The Supreme Court has said paying bribes in elections is free speech so its all nice and legal like.

So start a new political party called purple monkey dishwasher and if it gets off the ground see who ends up buying their loyalty.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

The Democrat party and the Republican party are one and the same when it comes to their roots which are corporate money from near and far. Its like the bank bailout. The big banks contributed to the campaigns of both sides and when they wanted a tax payer bailout the banks won and the tax payers lost big. If you pay for both sides then whoever wins will owe you. Simple concept. The Supreme Court has said paying bribes in elections is free speech so its all nice and legal like.

So start a new political party called purple monkey dishwasher and if it gets off the ground see who ends up buying their loyalty.

I mean candidates rather than political parties. Like 8 choices for president and other elections too.

I mentioned campaign finance reform which I think would be the top 8 getting an amount from the government to run. Only spending that amount and all 8 candidates getting the same thing.

 

[Omena]

Originally Posted by BryanW92

In today's America, almost everyone has mental issues. Just look at a couple current threads right here in the non-denom forum to see how many have a myriad of issues. Look at "pill time" in the public schools.

Giving people a free pass for their "issues" serves no one's best interests. Every mass shooter in the last few years has had a history of mental illness and everyone just patted them on the head and said, "there's nothing you can do about it". Well, they found something to do about it!

We need to stop coddling people. Those who can be made to pull themselves up and get moving should, and those who are incapable need serious help--not just some unsupervised meds, but real institutional help.
​

Don't know much about you, but I know enuf. :o Your disgusting. Please don't populate the planet.

I'm not really sure what Bryan has said here to get you so upset. He has a point, which is that throwing medication at people who have serious issues is not a good answer to the problem. I have experience a similar problem with the "poor" in different countries around the world. People who, for example, throw their free bread in the trash and just eat the meat that the church has given them for free. It may seem crazy to refer to a homeless person as greedy, but the reality is that greed permeates all social classes.

To me, a utopia (like the one touched on by 1watchman) is a world that exists WITHOUT greed. Where people help each other simply because they need to be helped, and not because they are expecting anything in return. Imagine a world where everybody was living for their neighbor, and not for themselves. I think that's what the Kingdom of Heaven is.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Democrat party and the Republican party are one and the same when it comes to their roots which are corporate money from near and far. Its like the bank bailout. The big banks contributed to the campaigns of both sides and when they wanted a tax payer bailout the banks won and the tax payers lost big. If you pay for both sides then whoever wins will owe you. Simple concept. The Supreme Court has said paying bribes in elections is free speech so its all nice and legal like.

So start a new political party called purple monkey dishwasher and if it gets off the ground see who ends up buying their loyalty.

(OK, Mr.Doom and Gloom) (Just kidding, a joke, please don't take it personally)

But really "hope" is hard to find, so I understand your point-of-view... I found this discussion currently going on in the American Politics forum, for a solution to the funding (money) issues...

Please check it out and get back to me about what you think...

Here's the link: http://www.christianforums.com/t7826270/

God Bless!

 

[1watchman]

I know that imagination is a fun thing to let go in our minds, but the reality of life is what is needed today, and one would do better to understand the things that are, and see clearly what God tells us WILL be, so we can get ready or not:

This world is on a downhill slide since the time of the Cross (and much faster today I see), and WILL end in terrible judgment with the Tribulation time ---first the sudden absence of the restraining power of the blessed Holy Spirit, when the Lord Jesus calls up His Bride to Himself, which will unleash the full natural and self-centered flesh of men for much harm; then followed by the reign of the political Beast a few years for deceit and then enslavement of men, with super-natural help from the religious Beast told in Revelation; followed by the wrath of God in the seals, trumpets, and vials poured out on mankind, as shown in Revelation; and then the return of the Lord Jesus with His Bride - the Church, and the heavenly host to conquer His enemies and reign supreme a thousand years ---paradise on earth for a millennium. All this before the Great White Throne judgment and purging by fire of the earth for the eternal state.

Some details are not included here, but this is essentially the real future, and should occupy our thoughts now to be prepared and safe in Christ. We ought to leave utopia ideas for the fun of those who need something to ease their mind now.

 

[Lollerskates]

I know that imagination is a fun thing to let go in our minds, but the reality of life is what is needed today, and one would do better to understand the things that are, and see clearly what God tells us WILL be, so we can get ready or not:

This world is on a downhill slide since the time of the Cross (and much faster today I see), and WILL end in terrible judgment with the Tribulation time ---first the sudden absence of the restraining power of the blessed Holy Spirit, when the Lord Jesus calls up His Bride to Himself, which will unleash the full natural and self-centered flesh of men for much harm; then followed by the reign of the political Beast a few years for deceit and then enslavement of men, with super-natural help from the religious Beast told in Revelation; followed by the wrath of God in the seals, trumpets, and vials poured out on mankind, as shown in Revelation; and then the return of the Lord Jesus with His Bride - the Church, and the heavenly host to conquer His enemies and reign supreme a thousand years ---paradise on earth for a millennium. All this before the Great White Throne judgment and purging by fire of the earth for the eternal state.

Some details are not included here, but this is essentially the real future, and should occupy our thoughts now to be prepared and safe in Christ. We ought to leave utopia ideas for the fun of those who need something to ease their mind now.

First paragraph: great summary of where minds should be in general.

Second paragraph: the problem is few "churches" teach this message. It is considered doom and gloom, and is usually replaced with feel good messages that mask what we need to know - the nitty gritty. Even though the war has been won, we are still in the "fog of war," and we still have spiritual skirmishes to fight. That means we need real debriefings on the Enemy, and real reconnaisance on what is going on - no matter how bad it may sound.

Third paragraph: I personally would deny utopia in entertained though, simply because it will never be Truth until Christ comes back. But, that is just me. It would be insultingly cliche of me to say, "let Christ be our ease of mind," indeed, I agree thoughts of utopia should be sparring. I feel governments and leaders have exploited Romans 13 for the sake of "no-questions-asked" rule. To expect any king/queen to be more than corrupt may be dangerous. Even David tried to have someone killed so that he could have his wife. And, he was a man after God's own heart - the one who slew the warrior champion Goliath.

Ride government piety, justice, and prosperity while it lasts, because if humans are involved, the lusts of the flesh will eventually consume and expire any further growth of those good qualities - and IT will trickle downhill to the people. This is cyclic.

 

[Omena]

This world is on a downhill slide since the time of the Cross (and much faster today I see), and WILL end in terrible judgment with the Tribulation time ---first the sudden absence of the restraining power of the blessed Holy Spirit, when the Lord Jesus calls up His Bride to Himself, which will unleash the full natural and self-centered flesh of men for much harm; then followed by the reign of the political Beast a few years for deceit and then enslavement of men, with super-natural help from the religious Beast told in Revelation; followed by the wrath of God in the seals, trumpets, and vials poured out on mankind, as shown in Revelation; and then the return of the Lord Jesus with His Bride - the Church, and the heavenly host to conquer His enemies and reign supreme a thousand years ---paradise on earth for a millennium. All this before the Great White Throne judgment and purging by fire of the earth for the eternal state.

Hi watchman,

I'm a bit confused because you say that first, the Christians will be taken up into heaven (i.e. the rapture), and then the trumpets etc will come. However I've read in 1 Corinthians 15 that the rapture comes at the last trumpet, so there's a discrepancy there. Can you explain?

 

[com7fy8]

What about a "liberal republican" party?

You need people with character . . . not just a theoretical principle thing. In the United States, I suspect we have leaders who have a character problem, but so do plenty of the voters. Candidates might cater to what they think voters want. And this maybe is happening, too, in certain TV ministering . . . how ones are being told how to get what God can do for them, instead of first seeking all they can be and do for God while caring as much about others as they care about themselves and their love idols > "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46).

Selfish and favoritistic loving, by the way, helps to keep us from being in and growing in the character of God's almighty and all-loving love. And so we stay weak enough so we can not do what is good, politically, plus our weakness keeps us available to personality trouble.

In politics and voting, we need loving others as ourselves. And this can be needed also for foreign relations . . . and for praying . . . to care about other nations as much as we care about our own country . . . whichever country each of us is in.

We in Jesus already are in His one "holy nation" (1 Peter 2:9) of all eternity and not only of this earth. And what works is we help each other. Each one is needed, not competing; because every member of Jesus is essential to the whole body and nation. "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15) So, only our Father ruling us can know what to do with each of us!! so that each of us is doing His good for all of us

So, this theocracy of being ruled by God's own peace is already working And it is not limited to one country or one "best" political way.

Jesus is our way and He is our King with absolute say and sway

Otherwise, we are in danger of being our own dictators > "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23) But so many do not have the nature to do this. And so, no ideology or legal power can truly help humans who do not obey Jesus.

And, by this, I mean we already can be in the utopia of God's kingdom, simply by obeying how He in us rules us (Luke 17:21) in His peace (Romans 14:17). And help others who are doing this, while we reach to any and all others Love "hopes all things", we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7. So, have this hope for ourselves and anybody and everybody

Neogaia, I see my paranoia and other problems as being problems of "self". As I grow in love, I become stronger against any and all negative and nasty and degrading and scary and dominating and dictatorial emotions and feelings and imagined people messing with me. When evil stuff comes to mess with me in myself, I deal with it as if it is in real life > I do best by trusting God to defeat it, and I resist however it would effect me, while offering myself for however God pleases to take me along. And mostly He corrects me to love whoever in my imagination is messing with me, and even pray blessing to that person. And I claim that Satan is defeated, already, by Jesus.

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

So, if I am being unforgiving, for example, this I call sin. I do not only concern myself with if I might do the outward evil of committing murder. But in me I am concerned about if I am being forgiving and caring and blessing And if not, I deal with this as a sin problem . . . if it is an anti-love thing.

I think it is very special and good, how we now can admit that certain things are wrong, instead of being in denial And only God's grace can do what we need and all that is good . . . of loving . . . having us become stronger in loving. God is trusting us to love each and every person; whoever we are with or are thinking about, God is trusting us to love this person; so we are in the utopia of being trusted by our Father and Jesus

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I know a place where it is perfect, and its very easy to get to.

Heaven