What's the most positive way to explain this?

[Gnarwhal]

If you had to explain to somebody why, as an Orthodox Christian you cannot/will not go to a Protestant (or Catholic) Church without somehow invalidating their faith from their point-of-view, what would you tell them? Let's assume that this person was expecting you to "straddle the fence", and by that I mean they don't see a problem with you attending the Divine Liturgy and any other services in conjunction with the services their Protestant/Catholic church puts on.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think I would need more information and context to make an intelligent comment, brother.

If you had to explain to somebody why, as an Orthodox Christian you cannot/will not go to a Protestant (or Catholic) Church without somehow invalidating their faith from their point-of-view, what would you tell them? Let's assume that this person was expecting you to "straddle the fence", and by that I mean they don't see a problem with you attending the Divine Liturgy and any other services in conjunction with the services their Protestant/Catholic church puts on.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, it would depend on what your priest would say. when I converted in college, a bunch of us were allowed to go to the former groups we hung out with in college for their services after Vespers, and eventually some of them started coming to Orthodoxy (not because of me I can assure you). in fact, through our deacon, the two who led the services at the Pentecostal group I hung out with actually I think are leaning Orthodox. so you never know.

the most effective way, at least what I saw, was not to go in there and try to disprove or invalidate anyone else's faith, but rather to be patient, and when they ask what you are, explain and explain why we Orthodox view things a certain way.

hope this helps/answers your question.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think I would need more information and context to make an intelligent comment, brother.

Fair enough...

Well, uh, my wife and I had—yet another—argument about church. I ended up getting Wednesdays off which will permit me to go to the Divine Liturgy, something my wife isn't necessarily against. The problem is she doesn't see anything wrong with me just perpetually visiting the Orthodox parish (and never really becoming a catechumen or subsequently baptized) for the DL now but then coming to church with her to whichever flavor-of-the-month Protestant church she's going to at the time if I have a Sunday off. I tried to tell her that I couldn't do both, but the argument just rapidly deteriorated from there.

I couldn't think of a way to explain to her that, as I understand it, when a person is baptized or chrismated into the Orthodox Church they're in communion with the Orthodox Church, and thus to go somewhere else would be to break that communion, and would need to confess the schism to your priest before receiving the Eucharist again.

If I'm wrong about that I'd gladly welcome a correction, if I'm right about it how do I explain that to my wife in a way that she wouldn't play the "cult", "legalistic" or "man-made religion" card? She's quick on the trigger with those, because she was raised by (what I call) Christian gypsies.

Sorry if this all sounds a bit out of sorts, I'm a little upset still since the argument just took place about two hours ago.

P.S. - I love the Stephen avatar.

well, it would depend on what your priest would say. when I converted in college, a bunch of us were allowed to go to the former groups we hung out with in college for their services after Vespers, and eventually some of them started coming to Orthodoxy (not because of me I can assure you). in fact, through our deacon, the two who led the services at the Pentecostal group I hung out with actually I think are leaning Orthodox. so you never know.

the most effective way, at least what I saw, was not to go in there and try to disprove or invalidate anyone else's faith, but rather to be patient, and when they ask what you are, explain and explain why we Orthodox view things a certain way.

hope this helps/answers your question.

Thanks bro.

I do intend to speak with my priest about this and see what his thoughts are, he's already been apprised about some of the issues that my wife and I are having and how the church issue is part of it.

The problem is my wife's expecting me to be flexible and go to the Orthodox Church and a protestant church, but she's not willing to reciprocate. Her justification is that we both grew up going to protestant churches so it wouldn't be strange for me to keep going to one with her, whereas for her it's completely foreign to go to an Orthodox Church and thus she doesn't want to go.

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[Dorothea]

I think you answered her well. I guess just to add or help in my feeble way, I'd say that you are joined to a community/family, and you cannot be part of two communities that have different beliefs or tenets. And Matt and GL are right. Talking to your priest would be best.

 

[choirfiend]

Also--just attending another place of worship isn't a schism. Communing there is. And depending on what your priest says, it's somewhat common that people be given a blessing to sometimes attend with their non-Orthodox family as an act of love towards them. It certainly isn't the ideal, and you shouldn't be missing out on any chance of attending the Liturgy in order to always go somewhere else, but it might be assigned to you as an act of sacrificial love towards your wife, especially given the current tenor when it comes to religious things for you two.

 

[Dorothea]

I guess I'm kinda on BF's side. I think if he goes and attends at her church to be respectful and compassionate, she should do the same. Then, I see how that would be better for them, but it seems one-sided, but of course, what do I know. It's none of my business, and I don't know BF's wife or their relationship really.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks bro.

I do intend to speak with my priest about this and see what his thoughts are, he's already been apprised about some of the issues that my wife and I are having and how the church issue is part of it.

The problem is my wife's expecting me to be flexible and go to the Orthodox Church and a protestant church, but she's not willing to reciprocate. Her justification is that we both grew up going to protestant churches so it wouldn't be strange for me to keep going to one with her, whereas for her it's completely foreign to go to an Orthodox Church and thus she doesn't want to go.

well, yeah, I would for starters talk to your priest. and then if he gives you the blessing, as choirfiend said, going there for your wife does not break your communion with the Orthodox Church.

 

[desertfathersincense]

If you had to explain to somebody why, as an Orthodox Christian you cannot/will not go to a Protestant (or Catholic) Church without somehow invalidating their faith from their point-of-view, what would you tell them? Let's assume that this person was expecting you to "straddle the fence", and by that I mean they don't see a problem with you attending the Divine Liturgy and any other services in conjunction with the services their Protestant/Catholic church puts on.

\

I'm probably going to get a beating for this but I don't really care: there is no canon that forbids what you are describing. The canons only discuss receiving communion from outside the canonical church. There is no canon that says an Orthodox person cannot attend a Protestant service.

And I have on occasion, gotten my gospel fix at a local African American Methodist church. So, shoot me. I loved it.

 

[Gnarwhal]

If my priest were to sign off on such a thing, I would be okay with it. I think my main concern is that my wife would then assume that "it's only a matter of time before [he] comes around" and relent to essentially being a full-time Protestant and "giving up this whole Orthodox thing".

I don't have any intention of living the rest of my life as a Protestant, I guess that's what I want her to be clear on (and sadly that's the point that's causing the most contention). I want to be honest and up front with her and not just put on a happy face and fall into line with her expectations of a "good little husband" like her mom and sister are accustomed to having.

 

[MKJ]

I have observed that most Orthodox priests are pretty understanding and indeed careful about preserving the marital relationship. I am not sure, BF, if I am getting the feeling that is something you have experienced yet. I had a friend on another forum who attended an Orthodox Church quite seriously for some time, but because her marriage was in trouble and her husband was not at all interested in Orthodoxy, her priest told her to wait to be chrismated. He said it would be much better for them to come together rather than for her to alienate him by entering without him. I do not remember if she also attended services at his Protestant Church, but I think you can see the principle - he was not going to have religion get in the way of healing the marriage, even if it meant delaying her entry into the Orthodox Church. Eventually her husband ran off, and she and her kids entered the OC the next week.

I would not make any assumptions about what you will have to do as far as attending church with your wife.

 

[MKJ]

If my priest were to sign off on such a thing, I would be okay with it. I think my main concern is that my wife would then assume that "it's only a matter of time before [he] comes around" and relent to essentially being a full-time Protestant and "giving up this whole Orthodox thing".

I don't have any intention of living the rest of my life as a Protestant, I guess that's what I want her to be clear on (and sadly that's the point that's causing the most contention). I want to be honest and up front with her and not just put on a happy face and fall into line with her expectations of a "good little husband" like her mom and sister are accustomed to having.

You know, a quiet steadiness of purpose will accomplish that without making a big deal of it. It is not very nice to be feeling like you need to be a good little husband (any more than a good little wife) but I think it is very easy for that to become a matter of ego as much as anything else. A spouse who without fanfare sticks to his plan over a long period of time can be a very effective witness - St Monica is a good example of that.

 

[choirfiend]

Tell her you're attending because you love her and want to show it. Remember the counsel when she was very upset with you going at all? She's willing to let you go on Wed now. Love her, pray, and let God's time happen. God doesn't will that His Church become a wedge between you if it is possible to not become one.

and also consider not discussing the problems or passing any opinions in public like this---talk with your priest and counselor, talk with her, talk with close friends for the purpose of getting help, but try not to put negativity in print. Marriage is private.