WHATS THE DEAL ABOUT MRS ELLEN G WHITE??

BobRyan

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There are many prophets in both OT and NT that wrote and spoke but did not "Write new holy scripture" as I am sure we all know by now.

Again - is this "bait and switch" -- you did not ask me "if she wrote new holy scripture" in your question above.

Not according to the actual Bible. In the Bible a number of prophets and even some of the letters of Paul do not make it into "holy scripture -- as we all know.

Name some, please.


I just did - Paul --

And also Anna, Agabus and Stephen's daughters.. the " EACH ONE" in 1Cor 14.

Alphabetical list including prophets that wrote a book of the Bible.


B

D

E

G

H

I

J

L

M

N

O

P

S

T

U

Z

Secondary list

 
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Albion

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Ellen White predicted a total turn-around in America from the strong division between Protestant America and Catholic Roman. For this she was ridiculed - and then .... Sept 2015 comes along. Presto!

Ellen White predicted a number of things regarding what is and is not healthy - and then .... one of her Medical Centers becomes one of the FIVE "blue zones" on planet Earth - Loma Linda California.

Ellen White predicted that America would be THE leading world super power when at the time - England was far more of a world Super power than the U.S..... and then .... welcome to the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Ellen White's views on health were so effective that the upper class in America - including the President of the United States sought out her "Sanitariums" for the best health cure.

Ellen White was shown vivid descriptions of the 2nd coming, the resurrection of Christ, the war in heaven, other planets, the fall of Adam, the crucifixion...
It wouldn't take much for any ordinary person to make all of the above predictions, some of which don't appear to be predictions exactly and others of which are unfulfilled.
 
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BobRyan

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Ellen White predicted a total turn-around in America from the strong division between Protestant America and Catholic Roman. For this she was ridiculed - and then .... Sept 2015 comes along. Presto!

Ellen White predicted a number of things regarding what is and is not healthy - and then .... one of her Medical Centers becomes one of the FIVE "blue zones" on planet Earth - Loma Linda California.

Ellen White predicted that America would be THE leading world super power when at the time - England was far more of a world Super power than the U.S..... and then .... welcome to the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Ellen White's views on health were so effective that the upper class in America - including the President of the United States sought out her "Sanitariums" for the best health cure.

Ellen White was shown vivid descriptions of the 2nd coming, the resurrection of Christ, the war in heaven, other planets, the fall of Adam, the crucifixion...

And of course she claimed to have the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy that Peter speaks of in 2Peter 1.

from http://press.adventist.org/en/
  • Ellen G. White is a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church who helped shape the mission and vision of the church.
  • Adventists do not regard her as a saint, nor do they view her writings as an addition to the Bible. Her prophetic claims are tested and proven by the Bible.
  • She is the most translated American author.
  • Her total literary output is approximately 100,000 pages. More than 100 books have been published from her writings.
  • She wrote books on numerous topics, including spirituality, parenting, social issues, health, and financial counsel. All of her works point the reader to God and the Bible.
  • Her most translated book, Steps to Christ, a how-to guide on being a Christian, has been translated into more than 165 languages.
  • Smithsonian Magazine named her one of the 100 Most Significant Americans of All Time. (2014)

It wouldn't take much for any ordinary person to make all of the above predictions,

Then you should provide a great number of Christian authors in the 1800's who also started such health programs that all result in producing one of the 5 "blue zones" of long-lived communities on planet earth.

The truth is - it is much easier to post a factless claim such as you have just made with nothing at all in support of it - than to have the actual historic facts supporting the claims made about Ellen White.

Have at it -

Try a few simple things - how many well-published Christian authors in the 1800's "predicted" that the U.S. and the RCC would be great friends in the near future?

How many of the Christian authors of the 1800's were stating that fresh air was the cure for TB prior to Ellen White saying it?

how many of the Christian authors of the 1800's were starting health institutions so superior to the healthcare in the U.S. that even the President of the United states would prefer the Ellen White sanitarium to a hospital not run by Seventh-day Adventists?
 
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Albion

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Then you should provide a great number of Christian authors in the 1800's who also started such health programs that all result in producing one of the 5 "blue zones" of long-lived communities on planet earth.
Advances in health care can be attributed to many people, and science isn't prophesy. Saying that America would emerge as a world leader was a well-known and well-documented idea held by many Americans in the 19th century and not without reason. The end times of course have not occurred yet, so there's nothing to her claims there. And the division between Protestants and Catholics has not disappeared.
 
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BobRyan

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Advances in health care can be attributed to many people, and science isn't prophesy.

You're not paying attention to the details - Loma Linda university is a teaching hospital - AND they themselves will tell you that the health information God gave to Ellen White is what makes that group one of the 5 "blue zones" on planet earth. That study was not done by SDAs - you are simply ignoring the actual documented facts -- in favor of speaking in the air, hand waving etc.

Better to have a grasp on the documented facts first.

Saying that America would emerge as a world leader was a well-known and well-documented idea held by many Americans in the 19th century and not without reason.

Name one person in the 19th century that declared that America would be the single dominate super power for all the world.

Recall that all we had done in the 1800's of significance was 'fight ourselves' --


And the division between Protestants and Catholics has not disappeared.

Again - you need to "quote something".

Ellen White did not claim there would be no protestants. But America was certainly declared to be "Protestant" in the 1800's - and anti-catholicism in America was at peek performance.

Immigration
Anti-Catholicism reached a peak in the mid nineteenth century when Protestant leaders became alarmed by the heavy influx of Catholic immigrants from Ireland and Germany. Some believed that the Catholic Church was the harlot of Babylon in the Book of Revelation.[15]

In his best-selling book of fiction, A Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court (1889), author Mark Twain indicates his hostility to the Catholic Church.[16] He admitted that he had "...been educated to enmity toward everything that is Catholic."[17]

Predicting peace and cooperation between the Vatican and Protestant America - in the 1800's was considered less than likely.
 
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Albion

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You're not paying attention to the details - Loma Linda university is a teaching hospital - AND they themselves will tell you that the health information God gave to Ellen White is what makes that group one of the 5 "blue zones" on planet earth.
Yeh, I caught the fawning endorsement stuff. We might just as well consider the Shriners--of Shriners' hospitals fame --to be "God's messengers," too, if that's your standard of what counts as prophesy.:rolleyes:
 
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BobRyan

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Yeh, I caught the fawning endorsement stuff.

still no "actual details" that you are willing to "read"??

You have free will- you can choose that road if you wish. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me on details.

But then why engage in the thread if your whole argument is that you wont read??

In Numbers 12:6 and 2Peter 1:19-21 we see how inspired writing - and inspiration of prophets works -- are you also not "willing to read" that as well?

Is your argument that God is "not allowed" to speak to Ellen White on health topics like He did in Leviticus 11?

He is not "allowed" to speak to Ellen White about the action of nations -- like He did to Daniel in Dan 2, 7, 8, 9 ???

Turns out... details matter.
 
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Albion

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still no "actual details" that you are willing to "read"??
I think I covered it pretty well, Bob. Sorry to have you feel let down that I didn't agree with everything you wrote, but you don't have much of a case there.
 
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BobRyan

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Yeh, I caught the fawning endorsement stuff. We might just as well consider the Shriners--of Shriners' hospitals fame --to be "God's messengers," too, if that's your standard of what counts as prophesy.:rolleyes:

Is it your claim that the "shriners" have some health teaching that has proven so effective that they have a 'shriners community' that is one of the 5 documented blue zones on planet earth - or is that simply an extreme case of gross equivocation you are trying out "as if" we simply "wont notice"??

I think I covered it pretty well, Bob. Sorry to have you feel let down that I didn't agree

Yes you did very well - thanks.

I should not have been expecting more.
 
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CaptainToad

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Brush the dust off your feet Bob... scoffers cannot be reasoned with because they have no desire to heed the Spirit.

ECR! Why being so rude?

What are scoffers to you anyway? People who dont share your opinion?

Let me put something straight:

Arent we all believers in Jesus Christ? Isnt He our saviour? No matter what kind of packages of belief we accept?

Do you really think that everyone who isnt a fervent follower of egw's guideline and insights is against you? Have you ever considered that there might be people out there who have a different view of things and therefore try to 'enlighten' you as much as you try to enlighten everyone who doesnt believe in egws prophecies?

Is it Jesus who saves us? Or is it the package surrounding Jesus that decides if we are saved or not?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Whether you accept present truth or not is on you... God has a message for this time and a people to give the message. To debate endlessly with people who have no desire to understand what we clearly show from the Bible is not what we are to be spending our time on... time is so short, if you would have eyes to see, you would not be playing these games of coming into our forum and trying to pick apart what we believe... what the Bible clearly says. And yes, to deny that God has provided a prophet or messenger for this critical time in earths history, is to deny the scriptures. These things were foretold and you would be well advised to heed them. Are you waiting for another prophet? if God says that He will send one, then when? Considering that the papacy is now actively coordinating the implementation of the sunday law, I'd say that time for a messenger from God is past.

I hear people say all the time... we all believe in Jesus, lets just agree on that and forget our differences. Guess what? Satan and his fallen angels believe in Jesus and the Father as well... better than we do. That is not the criteria... loving obedience to what He has commanded us is.
 
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BobRyan

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Arent we all believers in Jesus Christ? Isnt He our saviour? No matter what kind of packages of belief we accept?

That is true - there are saints within all denominations. But are those saints all attacking the work of the Holy Spirit??

some may be ignoring it - in the case of ignoring the SDA church and what the Holy Spirit did in that case - but are they really attacking the work of the Holy Spirit? If so - then maybe they will reconsider.
 
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BobRyan

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Some very quick and short examples of inspired writing in harmony with the 1Cor 12 and 1cor 14:1 Bible doctrine on inspiration.

1. Christ and the post resurrection sequence of events. -- Apr 5, 2015 #1
2. Christ's crucifixion - Apr 3, 2015 #1
3. Christ in Gethsemane - Mar 31, 2015 #1
4. The Resurrection of Christ - Apr 1, 2015 #1
5. Events at the Birth of Christ - Thursday at 12:58 PM #1
6. Compare different examples on the life of Christ - the Pope, and also "Desire of Ages" Thursday at 12:43 PM #130
7. Eye witness account of the still-future second coming event.
Friday at 9:40 PM #73
 
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BobRyan

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Interesting reading I must say. I happened on a Seventh Day Adventist cable show the other day and their network, at least I presume it so, 3ABN =Three Angels Broadcasting Network?
Fascinating stuff. I guess my question is, with all the controversy surrounding Ms.White, is this a valid denomination to adhere to as a member of the body of Christ?

Ever the seeker, I appreciate your indulgence.

When looking for "popular prophets" in the bible - the list is large for false ones -- and tiny for true ones. If the measure is "Does the world like that prophet" to determine if the prophet is really from God - then the answer would have been "Wrong" all throughout Bible times.

3ABN is a private individual's business but he has some good programs on it. Airing GYC is definitely a plus for him.
 
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BobRyan

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You should probably add that some of her predictions failed, and that some of her 'medical theories' seem a little bit ridiculous nowadays.

In her day the medical science of her institutions was so far advanced above the rest of the nation that leading figures in America selected her healthcare facilities over the nation's hospitals. The rule back then was 'Go to the hospital if you want to die - go to the Adventist hospital in Battle Creek - or an affiliate facility -- if you want to live".

As a result of those health doctrines - the SDA community in Loma Linda is recognized world wide as one of the 5 "Blue Zones" on planet Earth.
 
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JojotheBeloved

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Interesting reading I must say. I happened on a Seventh Day Adventist cable show the other day and their network, at least I presume it so, 3ABN =Three Angels Broadcasting Network?
Fascinating stuff. I guess my question is, with all the controversy surrounding Ms.White, is this a valid denomination to adhere to as a member of the body of Christ?

Ever the seeker, I appreciate your indulgence.

Seventh-day Adventists are first and foremost followers of Christ. We are a Christian denomination. We adhere to Christian doctrines that are completely supportable using the Bible alone. That being said, we have a different perspective on doctrine based on our understanding of Bible interpretation. Mrs. White is held in high esteem by most Adventists, but she does NOT in any way overrule the Bible. Also, many Adventists hold a variety of personal beliefs which may come into conflict with other Adventists on a broad range of topics, but we still voluntarily associate as a church family. I believe the ability to discuss differing opinions within the context of a church family is actually a strength of the Adventist Church. One does not have to believe Mrs. White was a prophet in order to be an Adventist.

Factually speaking, Ellen G. White (born as Ellen Harmon) was a protestant Christian in the United States during a time of religious re-awakening. Ellen and others were encouraged to study the Bible for themselves, and the group was especially excited about end-time prophecies speaking about the return of Jesus. As a group (and this group was made up of all different protestant denominations at the time), lead by William Miller, they expected Jesus to come back October 22, 1844. Jesus did not come back October 22, 1844. The group was devastated, but some were further compelled to study the Bible even more carefully. The important point for this group was that they believed Jesus would actually come back to Earth to deliver His people from this sinful world. They believed in His promise in the NT that He would return. Some other Christian teachings at the time were drifting away from belief in that promise. Another important thing to note is that this group of people, Ellen White included, were very strong in their belief that the Bible could be studied and correctly interpreted by any person able to read it for themselves. These are the two core belief structures that the Adventist Church was founded on and continues in today. Lead by Ellen White, her husband and others, this group of Christians eventually separated from their previous churches and organized into a new church family, calling themselves Seventh-day Adventists - Seventh-day because they believed the Bible description of Sabbath on the seventh day of the week was still applicable to their lives and within God's will for humanity, and Adventists because their primary objective was looking toward Christ and His second Advent/Coming.

Ellen White did describe herself as God's messenger for her time. She also shared with her church family visionary experiences she claimed were given to her by God. However, she never once claimed to be an official interpreter of Scripture nor did she ever wish to replace or even be equal to Scripture. She had only a few visions, which were primarily for the purpose of encouraging herself and her church family to look to Christ and continue to study the Bible for further revelation. The Adventist Church sees Ellen White's visions and writings as an example of how God continues to use all spiritual gifts described in Paul's letters to the Corinthians in our modern world, just as He did in Bible times, to uplift and grow the Church. Ellen White is an extensively published writer of devotional material. One of the most popular of her books among Adventists is called The Great Controversy. Mrs. White was a self-taught student of Christian history and Bible interpretation and it is obvious that she used every resource available to her when compiling that knowledge along with her devotional insights in The Great Controversy. It's a very interesting read, if you've got some time to look into it.

When speaking of prophecy, we need to be careful we understand what we're talking about. Most often, when I've heard people in our modern world talk about prophecy they mean eschatology, end-time events, or fortune-telling. The Bible does include certain prophecies that function in this way, and history has given evidence that those prophecies are true and applicable. However, the Bible also speaks of prophecy in a completely different context and that's where a lot of people get confused. The Bible also speaks of the gift of prophecy as that of public speaking which proclaims Jesus Christ until He returns. Paul spoke very highly of this kind of prophecy, saying that in his mind if there were a superior gift among all spiritual gifts it would be the gift of prophecy - proclaiming Jesus to the world. In this way, every preacher who preaches Jesus publicly has the gift of prophecy. There is also a third biblical way of understanding prophecy. A prophet in the Old Testament was often called to challenge the systems of society that were doing wrong or were oppressive to God's people. A prophet was often called to challenge the corruption of a nation or the corrupt leadership of a king. This was a dangerous and difficult task. In this way, anyone who stands up for what is right on behalf of God or God's people in a corrupt world is functioning as a prophet.

By the latter two definitions of prophecy, I would personally conclude that Ellen G. White did function as a prophet for her lifetime. When speaking of end-time events or fortune-telling... I would hesitate to name anyone a prophet in that way until the prophecies spoken were fulfilled. The only way to test that kind of prophecy is to wait and see in retrospect. Another way the Bible says to test a prophet is by their fruits. The fruits of Ellen White are great. She lead a major church organization through a very difficult time in US History (the Civil War). She focused and refocused that church organization on Jesus and salvation by faith in His Grace. It is because of her and her contemporaries that there are good quality Christ-centered Adventist schools across the United States and other parts of the world. She also encouraged good health practices that resulted in good quality medical care at Adventist hospitals across the USA. Say what you will about the fortune-telling aspect of prophecy... but she was a really strong leader, and the fruits of her efforts are still being seen today.
 
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BobRyan

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There is also a third biblical way of understanding prophecy. A prophet in the Old Testament was often called to challenge the systems of society that were doing wrong or were oppressive to God's people. A prophet was often called to challenge the corruption of a nation or the corrupt leadership of a king. This was a dangerous and difficult task. In this way, anyone who stands up for what is right on behalf of God or God's people in a corrupt world is functioning as a prophet.

By the latter two definitions of prophecy, I would personally conclude that Ellen G. White

According to the Bible - there is only one kind of prophet.

Numbers 12:6 "IF there is a prophet among you I WILL make Myself known to him/her by a vision or a dream"

There are different message "contents" -- but the mechanism for getting the message is always the same. You have talked about the different kinds of messages that a prophet may get from God - as if it is a different way to be a prophet. The mechanism is always the same according to the Bible. And it is for that reason "alone" that perfect doctrine is always the test of the message of a prophet - else they are a false prophet.
========================

Some very quick and short examples of inspired writing in harmony with the 1Cor 12 and 1cor 14:1 Bible doctrine on inspiration.

1. Christ's crucifixion - Apr 3, 2015 #1
2. Christ in Gethsemane - Mar 31, 2015 #1
3. The Resurrection of Christ - Apr 1, 2015 #1
4. Events at the Birth of Christ - Thursday at 12:58 PM #1
5. Events at the Birth of Christ - Thursday at 12:58 PM #1
6. Compare different examples on the life of Christ - the Pope, and also "Desire of Ages" Thursday at 12:43 PM #130


End Time events – Last things:
1. Eye witness account of the still-future second coming event. Friday at 9:40 PM#73
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc40.html
2. What about infants – at the resurrection? 2 minutes ago#13
3. Lake of Fire events 8 minutes ago #1572
4 minutes ago #1573
1 minute ago #1574


ORIGINS
1. The Creation , Adam and Eve in Eden- 23 minutes ago #1404
2. Satan and his angel after their fall 20 minutes ago #1405
3. Demons plot the fall of man 19 minutes ago #1407
4. Temptation and fall 15 minutes ago #1408
5. Eve becomes Tempter 14 minutes ago #1409
6. Adam is shown Gospel future 7 minutes ago #1410



THE FLOOD
1. Warning mankind and Building the ark 3 minutes ago #1412
2. The flood – the Storm Breaks - 4 minutes ago #1413
 
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BobRyan

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She had only a few visions, which were primarily for the purpose of encouraging herself and her church family to look to Christ and continue to study the Bible for further revelation.

I keep forgetting is it 30,000 pages of manuscripts from those dreams and visions - or 50,000?

"The Ellen G. White Estate today owns approximately 8,300 typed documents from Ellen White comprising about 50,000 pages of letters and manuscripts dating from 1845 to 1915. Many of these documents were used by her in publications during her lifetime. Others were private and family letters. Of the 50,000 pages approximately 30,000 were left to the Trustees named by Ellen White in her Last Will and Testament and their successors, for use in preparing compilations as well as for other future needs as they arose in the church. The other 20,000 pages consist of personal family letters"
 
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JojotheBeloved

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According to the Bible - there is only one kind of prophet.

Numbers 12:6 "IF there is a prophet among you I WILL make Myself known to him/her by a vision or a dream"

There are different message "contents" -- but the mechanism for getting the message is always the same. You have talked about the different kinds of messages that a prophet may get from God - as if it is a different way to be a prophet. The mechanism is always the same according to the Bible. And it is for that reason "alone" that perfect doctrine is always the test of the message of a prophet - else they are a false prophet.

I kind of get where you're coming from and in one thing I agree - the message is always from God; and in that way there is only one way to be a prophet - if a person is called to be a prophet by God.

I disagree with Mr. BobRyan's Bible interpretation on the other points he made though. But that's okay. I respect Mr. BobRyan's right to voice his view and thank him for sharing. I stand by everything I posted previously on this subject, as I have studied this subject extensively and believe my view is biblical. For any true seekers who would like sources where they can study for themselves, I would be happy to provide them via private message. However, I get the feeling from Mr. BobRyan that he merely wants to pick a fight, and I am not interested in debating this issue at this time. I hope you all sincerely have a good day.
 
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