What the Lake of Fire Really is, and What Day and Night Torment Means

[ewq1938]

This is an absolutely ridiculous doctrine. Jesus did not come to life till the third day, hello?

Correction, the BODY of Jesus wasn't alive until the 3rd day. Jesus' spirit was very much alive as all spirits of dead men are alive after physical death. How do you think Jesus preached the gospel in hades?

 

[cgaviria]

Correction, the BODY of Jesus wasn't alive until the 3rd day. Jesus' spirit was very much alive as all spirits of dead men are alive after physical death. How do you think Jesus preached the gospel in hades?

This is where you are wrong. Jesus Christ spoke to the spirits after he was resurrected. His spirit that he gave to the Father was his breath, as the spirit of a man is synonymous with his breath in the original language, and is not the same kind of spirit that angels have. The soul of Jesus Christ was in Sheol, which fulfilled this scripture,

For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption. (Psalm 16:10 [ESV])

 

[cgaviria]

He was on a mission. He wasn't sent there for the same reason the rest were there.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The spirits he preached to were not spirits in Sheol, they were spirits in Tartarus, which is a completely different place than Sheol,

For if God did not spare the angels having sinned, but having cast them down to Tartarus, in chains of gloomy darkness, delivered them, being kept for judgment; (2 Peter 2:4 [BLB])

And also the dead in 1 Peter 4:6 was referring to all those who were resurrected to whom the gospel was also witnessed to after Jesus' resurrection,

and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus' resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. (Matthew 27:52 [NIV])

 

[DamianWarS]

The spirits he preached to were not spirits in Sheol, they were spirits in Tartarus, which is a completely different place than Sheol

The text makes no reference to Jesus either going to Hades or Tartarus but rather "prison". We can get really caught up in ideas of what we think these places are but scripture really isn't that clear. Suggesting this prison is Hades or Tartarus are interpretations that the text does not reveal.

 

[cgaviria]

The text makes no reference to Jesus either going to Hades or Tartarus but rather "prison". We can get really caught up in ideas of what we think these places are but scripture really isn't that clear. Suggesting this prison is Hades or Tartarus are interpretations that the text does not reveal.

It does actually. That scripture in the Psalms with the soul being in Sheol applies to Jesus Christ, hence why it is quoted in Acts in relation to him,

“For David said about him... Because you did not leave my Soul in Sheol and you did not give your Pure One to see destruction.” (Acts 2:25-27 [ABPE])

So Jesus Christ was indeed in Sheol, for 3 days and 3 nights. And anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching lies contrary to scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

The spirits he preached to were not spirits in Sheol, they were spirits in Tartarus, which is a completely different place than Sheol,

He didn't go to Tartarus. He went to Sheol/Hades.

And also the dead in 1 Peter 4:6 was referring to all those who were resurrected to whom the gospel was also witnessed to after Jesus' resurrection,

The dead is a reference to those in Sheol/Hades.

 

[ewq1938]

The text makes no reference to Jesus either going to Hades or Tartarus but rather "prison".

Scripture does say Hades actually:

Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


Proof Jesus' soul was in Hades the same place Peter spoke of.


Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


Hades is said to exist "downward" implying it's somewhere in the Earth, in a spiritual dimension of course, 2Pe_2:4, Luk_10:15, Eze_31:16, Isa_14:15.

 

[DamianWarS]

Scripture does say Hades actually:

Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.


Proof Jesus' soul was in Hades the same place Peter spoke of.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Hades is said to exist "downward" implying it's somewhere in the Earth, in a spiritual dimension of course, 2Pe_2:4, Luk_10:15, Eze_31:16, Isa_14:15.

There really isn't a lot to go on here and most of it is stitching scripture together and making assumptions of a place that is always a sub point.

The Acts text is a Greek translation of Ps 16:10. The word Hades is used but we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that this is the link between Sheol because that has nothing to do with the text. The context inherits the context of the quoted text and since it makes no additional revelation as to what "Hades" is (in the text) we should see this word as "Sheol" which is the original place described and look at "Hades" as just a Greek translation. This is important because "Sheol" is far more ambiguous than the biblical use of "Hades" and it can reference a place outside of the scope that is revealed for Hades or simply just a euphemism for death which is common in OT use.

The 1 Peter reference doesn't mention any of these buzz words but only "prison" and only for a specific group of people (the lost people of the pre-flood era). This is a far more narrow context than how Hades is described. In biblical use Sheol is an indiscriminate place for the dead, Hades is a place for the lost dead and this "prison" narrows it further to a place for the lost dead in the pre-flood era. Does this suggest different levels to Hades? Perhaps but scripture doesn't tell us this and if the parable of the rich man can show us anything at the very least "Hades" (place for the lost) is not the same place as "Abraham's bosom" (a place for the redeemed).

Saying Hades has levels, is the same as Sheol, is he same as Tartarus, is the same as this "prison" are all connections scripture does not reveal and are based on assumptions. The truth is little is known about the afterlife but we like to push for details that aren't there to satisfy our longing to know. I don't see the value in knowing Hades is a bunch of levels and it lends itself to a lot of folklore and mythology. It makes for good stories but sometimes it's ok just to conclude that there isn't enough information to make these statements.

 

[cgaviria]

There really isn't a lot to go on here and most of it is stitching scripture together and making assumptions of a place that is always a sub point.

The Acts text is a Greek translation of Ps 16:10. The word Hades is used but we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that this is the link between Sheol because that has nothing to do with the text. The context inherits the context of the quoted text and since it makes no additional revelation as to what "Hades" is (in the text) we should see this word as "Sheol" which is the original place described and look at "Hades" as just a Greek translation. This is important because "Sheol" is far more ambiguous than the biblical use of "Hades" and it can reference a place outside of the scope that is revealed for Hades or simply just a euphemism for death which is common in OT use.

The 1 Peter reference doesn't mention any of these buzz words but only "prison" and only for a specific group of people (the lost people of the pre-flood era). This is a far more narrow context than how Hades is described. In biblical use Sheol is an indiscriminate place for the dead, Hades is a place for the lost dead and this "prison" narrows it further to a place for the lost dead in the pre-flood era. Does this suggest different levels to Hades? Perhaps but scripture doesn't tell us this and if the parable of the rich man can show us anything at the very least "Hades" (place for the lost) is not the same place as "Abraham's bosom" (a place for the redeemed).

Saying Hades has levels, is the same as Sheol, is he same as Tartarus, is the same as this "prison" are all connections scripture does not reveal and are based on assumptions. The truth is little is known about the afterlife but we like to push for details that aren't there to satisfy our longing to know. I don't see the value in knowing Hades is a bunch of levels and it lends itself to a lot of folklore and mythology. It makes for good stories but sometimes it's ok just to conclude that there isn't enough information to make these statements.

We know that whoever goes to Sheol "sleeps". This place is also called Hades in the Greek. It is not the same place as Tartarus, because clearly these fallen angels that the Lord preached to that are bound were not sleeping, therefore they are not in Sheol in the Hebrew, the abode of the dead, otherwise also called Hades in the Greek.

 

[ewq1938]

We know that whoever goes to Sheol "sleeps". This place is also called Hades in the Greek. It is not the same place as Tartarus, because clearly these fallen angels that the Lord preached to that are bound were not sleeping, therefore they are not in Sheol in the Hebrew, the abode of the dead, otherwise also called Hades in the Greek.

No one is sleeping in Hades. All souls of the dead are wide awake. Death is sometimes called sleep and that pertains solely to the physical body of the dead, never the soul.

 

[DamianWarS]

We know that whoever goes to Sheol "sleeps". This place is also called Hades in the Greek. It is not the same place as Tartarus, because clearly these fallen angels that the Lord preached to that are bound were not sleeping, therefore they are not in Sheol in the Hebrew, the abode of the dead, otherwise also called Hades in the Greek.

Not sure if your listening. Sheol and Hades are shown biblical as places with different characteristics; Sheol as far more broad and Hades more narrowed. I don't know how many different way I can say this before you begin to compare/contrast biblically revealed characteristics of these places. I'm am looking at how the bible reveals these places not simply the classical definitions or a translation from hebrew to greek. We have to look past any bias we have on these words and see what the text says.

Many references of Sheol are symbolic for an emotional state, others are euphemisms for death. Each reference needs to be taken in context. "Sleep" is also widely used as a euphemism for death and it too needs to be taken in context. We cannot responsible take idiomatic verses like for example Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt" then take the reference "sleep" and start saying people in Sheol are actually sleeping. This is just an irresponsible exegesis.

Again the bible is not clear enough about what the afterlife looks like because that is not the point of the bible and we shouldn't try to fill in the blanks. We cannot definitively know what these place look like except in the afterlife there is punishment for the wicked and reward for the redeemed.

 

[cgaviria]

Not sure if your listening. Sheol and Hades are shown biblical as places with different characteristics; Sheol as far more broad and Hades more narrowed. I don't know how many different way I can say this before you begin to compare/contrast biblically revealed characteristics of these places. I'm am looking at how the bible reveals these places not simply the classical definitions or a translation from hebrew to greek. We have to look past any bias we have on these words and see what the text says.

Many references of Sheol are symbolic for an emotional state, others are euphemisms for death. Each reference needs to be taken in context. "Sleep" is also widely used as a euphemism for death and it too needs to be taken in context. We cannot responsible take idiomatic verses like for example Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt" then take the reference "sleep" and start saying people in Sheol are actually sleeping. This is just an irresponsible exegesis.

Again the bible is not clear enough about what the afterlife looks like because that is not the point of the bible and we shouldn't try to fill in the blanks. We cannot definitively know what these place look like except in the afterlife there is punishment for the wicked and reward for the redeemed.

Sleep spiritually conveys death. Its in the scriptures. You either believe this, or you do not.

 

[DamianWarS]

Sleep spiritually conveys death. Its in the scriptures. You either believe this, or you do not.

Did I not just say that? You really need to spend more time reading the post and less time contradicting yourself. You are the one who said those in Hades are sleeping and I suggested sleep is a euphemistic term well established in the bible but thanks for repeating a trivial point while ignoring the main point.