What the Lake of Fire Really is, and What Day and Night Torment Means

[Uncle Mikey]

Christ is made of "iron", He is "Iron Man"

Revelations 2:27
that one 'will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery' --just as I have received authority from my Father.

Not bad!

You know what Iron represents in Scripture?

Electromagnetism!

That's why Jesus has an Iron Rod...

We are in the beginning stages of the Iron Kingdom.

We drive Iron Chariots.

The Iron Kingdom rises out of the Magnetic Iron Core of Earths interior... i.e. Hell.

 

[Fireinfolding]

This is the old unorthodox section isnt it? Just with a new name to it.

If so its definately in the correct section is all I will pretty much say.

It doesn't make any more sense to me in your handling of it, but I appreciate your efforts
(and the pictures)

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Who are they then, in your own interpretation? It is obvious they are angels, but I'll go ahead and let you give me your own spiel about it.

Listen cgaviria, I'm not here to give my own personal interpretation. Somethings the scripture is not clear on however people still take it upon them selves to create an interpretation. There are many things in scripture that I do not have a definite stance on and therefore i am not afraid to change my mind on certain beliefs if God brings new light to me.
From viewing your threads I can see you have dug your heals in pretty hard into certain beliefs you have and I am telling you, you are doing yourself a disfavor. You seem like a bright person, someone that is really interested in scripture, but do yourself an favor and dont be so completely stubborn about everything you believe. (Im not saying that somethings which are foundational beliefs you should budge on, because even i have these.) But stuff that isn't 100% clear, at least recognize that and take the position "it may mean that" not "100% it means this"

Next, no mistake was made by Jesus, except your own mistake to think that by him saying "to whom the word of God came" he means the Jews. That phrase literally means, "to whom this declaration corresponds to", and even to think that this declaration pertained to Jews is absolutely nonsensical, because Jews are not "gods", and they are already men, so the declaration "you will die like men" does not describe them. Read and learn.

Do you not read the verses in context? It is clear Jesus is speaking to the Jews. Look at other translation:
I guess all of these translators are wrong too and the context is wrong too?
In Psalm 82, they are called Elohim and as you probably know can have many meanings, besides the only thing that matters is that Jesus clearly, in context does apply this to the JEWS.
As why Psalm 82 says "ye will die like men" is again a matter of interpretation (and here your idea of nonsensical come to play) when we try to add to a text we end up putting our own interpretation on it. When in fact the text says what it says and we may not have the reason why it says it the way it does. But when we ignore other texts (like John 10:34) and try to twist them in order to make one text (psalms) say something else, we are not doing a right thing.
Again i could give my view on why Psalms 82 says "ye will die like men" but that again isn't something that can be 100% supported by scripture.

New International Version
If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and Scripture cannot be set aside--
New Living Translation
And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God's message were called 'gods,'
English Standard Version
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
Berean Study Bible
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--
Berean Literal Bible
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture is not able to be broken,
New American Standard Bible
"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
King James Bible
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
If He called those whom the word of God came to 'gods--and the Scripture cannot be broken--
International Standard Version
If he called those to whom a message from God came 'gods' (and the Scripture cannot be disregarded),
NET Bible
If those people to whom the word of God came were called 'gods' (and the scripture cannot be broken),
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“If he called those men gods because The Word of God was with them and the scripture cannot be destroyed”,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The Scriptures cannot be discredited. So if God calls people gods (and they are the people to whom he gave the Scriptures),
New American Standard 1977
“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
Jubilee Bible 2000
If he called them gods unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
King James 2000 Bible
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
American King James Version
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
American Standard Version
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
Douay-Rheims Bible
If he called them gods, to whom to word of God was spoken, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Darby Bible Translation
If he called *them* gods to whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
English Revised Version
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),
Webster's Bible Translation
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Weymouth New Testament
If those to whom God's word was addressed are called gods (and the Scripture cannot be annulled)
World English Bible
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken),
Young's Literal Translation
if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)

 

[timewerx]

Not bad!

You know what Iron represents in Scripture?

Electromagnetism!

That's why Jesus has an Iron Rod...
We are in the beginning stages of the Iron Kingdom.

We drive Iron Chariots.

The Iron Kingdom rises out of the Magnetic Iron Core of Earths interior... i.e. Hell.

Electromagnetism is also at the heart of modern technology, from giant generators to you smartphones.

Our huge antennas and satellites which serves our Internet kinda looks like an iron rod/Iron scepter too....

 

[Chriliman]

This is an absolutely ridiculous doctrine. Jesus did not come to life till the third day, hello?

Sorry, you misunderstood what I was saying. Yes of course Jesus came back to life in His earthly immortal body after three days.

Do you believe the spirit of Jesus was completely inactive for 3 days while his earthly body was dead? I don't think that's true based on what scripture says, nor does it really make sense that the spirit of Jesus could be inactive or dead. He was separated from the Father, but still alive in the spirit when his earthly body was dead.

Luke 23:46
"And Jesus, acrying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last."

Ephesians 4:8–10
Therefore it says,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, (what does this mean to you?)
and he gave gifts to men.
(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

It was after the third day, that he then preached to the fallen angels in prison. Also, the thief is not in paradise, because the resurrection of the dead has not occurred yet. When Jesus said, "today you will be with me in paradise", he meant "today, you will be with me in paradise", or rather "as of today, you will be with me in paradise". And we know this to be true because the thief was not in paradise on that day when Jesus Christ died. Read and learn.

If you have scripture that makes this clear, please present it. Thanks!

If the thief died that day, then his spirit would have been in paradise that day(from his perspective) because when we as believers die we immediately wake up in paradise, even though from an earthly perspective the dead go to sleep, but from the dead's perspective they do not experience the sleep, it's just immediate change.

 

[DamianWarS]

Do you guys not realize that Hades is just a word that describe a true place? Call it Hades, call it Sheol, it does not matter, the place is real, and it is the place where the souls of the dead are collected.

It doesn't appear like you read my post as I said the Greek mythical place of Hades doesn't exist but the bible uses the word Hades contextually to represent a real place of the after life. My main argument with you is not that Hades is a real place, in the biblical use, but that it is separate from Heaven and we can be saved from it. I would have thought you picked up on that by now but you seem to want to digress the conversation rather than comment on the areas that actually disagree with what you are saying.

 

[cgaviria]

It doesn't appear like you read my post as I said the Greek mythical place of Hades doesn't exist but the bible uses the word Hades contextually to represent a real place of the after life. My main argument with you is not that Hades is a real place, in the biblical use, but that it is separate from Heaven and we can be saved from it. I would have thought you picked up on that by now but you seem to want to digress the conversation rather than comment on the areas that actually disagree with what you are saying.

Hades according to Greek mythology may have indeed been described differently according to their own mythology, however, this real place, Hades or Sheol, however you want to call it, is where ALL the dead go, and souls are collected there, and anywhere that goes there is in a sleep state, until resurrection. It doesn't matter what it is called and I'm not here to discuss Greek mythology.

 

[DamianWarS]

Hades according to Greek mythology may have indeed been described differently according to their own mythology, however, this real place, Hades or Sheol, however you want to call it, is where ALL the dead go, and souls are collected there, and anywhere that goes there is in a sleep state, until resurrection. It doesn't matter what it is called and I'm not here to discuss Greek mythology.

You're still digressing stuck on mythology side note which is not even my point. There are clear passages in the scripture that show hades as a place we can be saved from. For example the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Stop making up arguments that aren't there and defend your own position.

 

[cgaviria]

You're still digressing stuck on mythology side note which is not even my point. There are clear passages in the scripture that show hades as a place we can be saved from. For example the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Stop making up arguments that aren't there and defend your own position.

State your point plainly then.... you are the one that mentioned mythology, not I, so why are you then accusing me of digressing into mythology when you were the one that brought it up? Common now, use your brain. State your point plainly about what Hades is and I will tell you if you are right or wrong according to scripture. Very simple.

 

[DamianWarS]

State your point plainly then.... you are the one that mentioned mythology, not I, so why are you then accusing me of digressing into mythology when you were the one that brought it up? Common now, use your brain. State your point plainly about what Hades is and I will tell you if you are right or wrong according to scripture. Very simple.

My statement about mythology was that Hades was rooted in greek mythology and it doesn't actually exist I then said the bible uses the word contextually to represent a place of afterlife (a real place). The post went on to show that we cannot assume classical greek definitions or OT word substitutions and need to take each instance of the word in context. I then showed how the context of the "Hades" in Acts refers back to Sheol, not Sheol to Hades. And the other passages in the NT show Hades as a place we can be saved from, meaning not everyone goes to Hades.

It was a straightforward post but your response only was about the first sentence. You seemed to have found the word mythology and couldn't see anything else. Mythology was not my point at all and if you read the post you would see that but instead chose to take that topic and run with it; this is what digressing is. You continue to digress because I have plainly stated my point but I'm not going to hold your hand to show you how to read or stay on topic. If you're interested in knowing my point then read my posts, actually try and see what my point is and reply to that point.

 

[Job8]

You say that this verse is talking about angels, Jesus said that this verse is referring to men

This thread is simply more false doctrine. Beware of false teachers.

 

[2KnowHim]

Has it occurred to anyone that the "day and night" that is mention, has to do with time, and this earthly realm?
And that it is not some future event, but that it is happening now?

 

[cgaviria]

Has it occurred to anyone that the "day and night" that is mention, has to do with time, and this earthly realm?
And that it is not some future event, but that it is happening now?

It is not, as the judgment of the dead has not yet occurred, hence why there is a great white throne judgment that is in the future, where even death and Hades itself are destroyed.

 

[2KnowHim]

It is not, as the judgment of the dead has not yet occurred, hence why there is a great white throne judgment that is in the future, where even death and Hades itself are destroyed.

I'll let you in on a little secret, Christ has been doing this from His Resurrection, in those that are His.
Do you not know that all of us were born dead in Adam because of sin, and that sin was Judged in Jesus, and nailed to His cross? And that He has been Reigning and will continue to Reign over the enemy which is death until it is completely destroyed in all mankind.

You are so far off my friend I don't even know where to start. All I will say is you are truly missing it when it comes to His Glory here and now.

 

[cgaviria]

I'll let you in on a little secret, Christ has been doing this from His Resurrection, in those that are His.
Do you not know that all of us were born dead in Adam because of sin, and that sin was Judged in Jesus, and nailed to His cross? And that He has been Reigning and will continue to Reign over the enemy which is death until it is completely destroyed in all mankind.

You are so far off my friend I don't even know where to start. All I will say is you are truly missing it when it comes to His Glory here and now.

The resurrection of the dead has not occurred yet, it occurs at the coming of the Christ, hence,

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 [NIV])

You are far off and are spreading false doctrine. Read and learn and perhaps there is hope for you.

 

[2KnowHim]

The resurrection of the dead has not occurred yet, it occurs at the coming of the Christ, hence,

Yeah, that's the same mistake Martha made too.....

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

And if we are still waiting for it then how can this be true...

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, (made alive) who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Shempster]

Is there room for both?
Could it be that when He was raised that the believers through history were raised up into incorruptible and so does any believer who died....but....the wicked dead are not raised until the great white throne?

 

[2KnowHim]

Is there room for both?
Could it be that when He was raised that the believers through history were raised up into incorruptible and so does any believer who died....but....the wicked dead are not raised until the great white throne?

Yes, It very well could be.

 

[ewq1938]

The paradise Jesus Christ is referring to when he spoke to the thief wasn't the paradise in heaven, as Jesus Christ did not ascend to heaven when he died

Of course he did. That's where he went first before going to Hades (and no one is asleep in Hades either)

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


Take note that Christ assured the man that "today" they would both be in Paradise, a reference to Heaven and just prior to dying Christ said His spirit would be in the hands of his Father

Christ isn't just saying something for no reason. This is what occurs when someone dies and it's based on this scripture:


Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



Christ went to Heaven/Paradise to his Father as we all do when we die. From there he went to the "grave" where the unsaved dead were, and then he arose after 3 days and returned to his disciples before his "ascension" to his throne beside his Father. Ascension involves a full body ascending which did not occur when Jesus died as his body remained in the tomb and his Spirit went to God and later to the "hell".


John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

This proves that Jesus did, at least for short time, go to his father when he died.

 

[ewq1938]

Alright, you speak rightly that these two places are separate places. However, how can Hades be a place reserved for the wicked if Jesus Christ not being wicked, was also there after he died?

He was on a mission. He wasn't sent there for the same reason the rest were there.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.