What the Lake of Fire Really is, and What Day and Night Torment Means

[cgaviria]

I read about 5 seconds and had enough. The OT text does not use the word Hades and only a greek influenced translation like the Septuagint would. Using a OT version that uses the word Hades instead of Sheol is highly irresponsible when you're claiming they are the same place and says a lot about your character. Just because you can find a version of the bible that says Hades instead of Sheol does not make them the same place. I can call Moses Jesus but doing so doesn't make it true even if I can find a version of the bible to support this, so you will have to try harder than that.

Regardless even if you choose to use Hades in the OT the "OT Hades" is still not equal to the NT Hades and they are shown as different places based on revealed design. There still remains the point that Sheol in the OT is an inescapable place of the dead where NT Hades is an undesired place where it is reveal we can be saved from.

Where are your scriptures? I have demonstrated mine. And I am indeed right and you are wrong. But for the sake of discussion, let's see your scriptures buddy. Unless you have none.

 

[Uncle Mikey]

Thanks, I thought I was the only one who thought it sounded a "tad" off.

Do you always take someone's word without them proving it?

Where are the verses?

Kind of gullible aren't you?

What I have posted *IS* accurate.

Study 'passing through the fire'.

Who do they pass to?

 

[Uncle Mikey]

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"

How can one be 'twice born of Hell' if they weren't first born there to begin with?

Where did we come from?

Psalm 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

Lowest Parts of the Earth = Hell.

That is where we originated from!

How did we end up there?

 

[DamianWarS]

Where are your scriptures? I have demonstrated mine. And I am indeed right and you are wrong. But for the sake of discussion, let's see your scriptures buddy. Unless you have none.

You're scriptures make us of an obscure version to help your position, there are in fact only 10 "Hades" in the Bible (this does not include the OT), I'll start with the first one:

Mat 11:23 “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.

This shows a contrast between heaven and hades showing them as separate places, one reserved with the wicked and one reserved for the redeemed.

 

[cgaviria]

You're scriptures make us of an obscure version to help your position, there are in fact only 10 "Hades" in the Bible (this does not include the OT), I'll start with the first one:

Mat 11:23 “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.

This shows a contrast between heaven and hades showing them as separate places, one reserved with the wicked and one reserved for the redeemed.

Alright, you speak rightly that these two places are separate places. However, how can Hades be a place reserved for the wicked if Jesus Christ not being wicked, was also there after he died?

For you shall not abandon my soul in Hades, nor shall you give your sacred one to see corruption. (Psalms 16:10 [ABP])

And we know this prophecy pertains to Jesus Christ because of this mention of this prophecy,

God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said, "'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.' So it is also stated elsewhere: "'You will not let your holy one see decay.' (Acts 13:34-35 [NIV])

So therefore, Hades isn't a place for the wicked, it is a place for the dead.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Do you always take someone's word without them proving it?

Where are the verses?

Kind of gullible aren't you?

What I have posted *IS* accurate.

Study 'passing through the fire'.

Who do they pass to?

I saw what you put together verse wise I am not seeing it so anyone not written in the book of life gets tossed into a bird?

 

[Chriliman]

Alright, you speak rightly that these two places are separate places. However, how can Hades be a place reserved for the wicked if Jesus Christ not being wicked, was also there after he died?

1 Peter 3:18-21
"18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water,21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear consciencetoward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

When Christ died on the cross he was made alive in the spirit and preached to the imprisoned spirits in hades, proclaiming victory over death and freed the captives in paradise on the other side of the chasm and took them up to heaven with him. This is why Jesus said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" because at that time paradise was not yet in heaven.

 

[YHWH's Lion]

He didn't, hence,
He spoke ambiguously not identifying who this scripture was referring to. I am telling you who it was referring to, fallen angels, as they are indeed gods, and even Satan is a god, as it is said,

What are you talking about,
"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken"

If he (Jesus) called them (the Jews) gods, unto whom (the Jews) the word of God came.

You are contradicting what the Son of God said and what the scripture says.

 

[Fireinfolding]

They were saying Jesus was blaspheming because he said "I am the SON of God" while in their own law it was written, "I said, Ye are gods..." which is sorta funny, but even that equated with "children of the most high" behind it.

 

[cgaviria]

What are you talking about,
"34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken"

If he (Jesus) called them (the Jews) gods, unto whom (the Jews) the word of God came.

You are contradicting what the Son of God said and what the scripture says.

It clearly isn't talking about Jews as Jews are already men,

I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” (Psalm 82:7 [ESC])

So whoever these gods are, they are not men. They are fallen angels, as I told you already. Angels are all sons of God.

 

[YHWH's Lion]

It clearly isn't talking about Jews as Jews are already men,


So whoever these gods are, they are not men. They are fallen angels, as I told you already. Angels are all sons of God.

Angels are never called Sons of God, you are making an assumption and i believe i have pointed this out to you in another forum.

And clearly you are saying that Jesus made a mistake when he Quoted that Psalm and called the Jews gods.

 

[cgaviria]

Angels are never called Sons of God, you are making an assumption and i believe i have pointed this out to you in another forum.

And clearly you are saying that Jesus made a mistake when he Quoted that Psalm and called the Jews gods.

Angels are certainly called sons of God,

the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. (Genesis 6:2 [NIV])

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6 [ESV])

And not only they, but anyone born of God is also called a son of God,

for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. (Galatians 3:26 [ESV])

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Angels are certainly called sons of God,
And not only they, but anyone born of God is also called a son of God,

Those verses never say that Angels are Sons of God, you are adding your own interpretation to them.
Who the Sons of God in Genesis are has been a subject of debate for centuries, as for the Sons of God in Job it is again a matter of opinion, because the bible does not say "Angels are Sons of God"
But don't change the subject, the subject is you saying that Jesus made a mistake when he Quoted that Psalm and called the Jews gods.

 

[timewerx]

Where did we come from?

Psalm 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

Lowest Parts of the Earth = Hell.

The lowest parts of the Earth is made of Iron.....Get mastery from geology....

It only means to say that Christ is made of "iron", He is "Iron Man"


Revelations 2:27
that one 'will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery' --just as I have received authority from my Father.

 

[timewerx]

Lowest Parts of the Earth = Hell.

That is where we originated from!

The lowest parts of the Earth is made of iron.

The life essence of the body is the blood....

Guess what's in the blood? Iron!

 

[DamianWarS]

Alright, you speak rightly that these two places are separate places. However, how can Hades be a place reserved for the wicked if Jesus Christ not being wicked, was also there after he died?

And we know this prophecy pertains to Jesus Christ because of this mention of this prophecy,

So therefore, Hades isn't a place for the wicked, it is a place for the dead.

Hades is greek mythology and it doesn't actually exist. The bible uses hades contextually to represent a place of afterlife but it does not carry the Greek characteristics with it and we must carefully read it in context to understand what it means rather than superimposing Classical Greek definitions or OT word substitutions.

Acts is quoting Psalms not the other way around so in context we know the original scripture that is being referenced and the word use for an afterlife inherits not other NT passages, not greek definitions, but rather it's source text which in this case is Sheol.

Other references of Hades makes clear contrasts and shows that we can be saved from hades but have no seeded references back to Sheol as the Acts reference does. We need to look at these as exactly how the bible is revealing them to be. They are contextual references to a place of afterlife, Acts is referring to the primitive concept of Sheol but the other references (8 remaining ones) appear to show Hades as a place we can be saved from.

 

[cgaviria]

Those verses never say that Angels are Sons of God, you are adding your own interpretation to them.
Who the Sons of God in Genesis are has been a subject of debate for centuries, as for the Sons of God in Job it is again a matter of opinion, because the bible does not say "Angels are Sons of God"
But don't change the subject, the subject is you saying that Jesus made a mistake when he Quoted that Psalm and called the Jews gods.

Who are they then, in your own interpretation? It is obvious they are angels, but I'll go ahead and let you give me your own spiel about it.

Next, no mistake was made by Jesus, except your own mistake to think that by him saying "to whom the word of God came" he means the Jews. That phrase literally means, "to whom this declaration corresponds to", and even to think that this declaration pertained to Jews is absolutely nonsensical, because Jews are not "gods", and they are already men, so the declaration "you will die like men" does not describe them. Read and learn.

 

[cgaviria]

Hades is greek mythology and it doesn't actually exist. The bible uses hades contextually to represent a place of afterlife but it does not carry the Greek characteristics with it and we must carefully read it in context to understand what it means rather than superimposing Classical Greek definitions or OT word substitutions.

Acts is quoting Psalms not the other way around so in context we know the original scripture that is being referenced and the word use for an afterlife inherits not other NT passages, not greek definitions, but rather it's source text which in this case is Sheol.

Other references of Hades makes clear contrasts and shows that we can be saved from hades but have no seeded references back to Sheol as the Acts reference does. We need to look at these as exactly how the bible is revealing them to be. They are contextual references to a place of afterlife, Acts is referring to the primitive concept of Sheol but the other references (8 remaining ones) appear to show Hades as a place we can be saved from.

Do you guys not realize that Hades is just a word that describe a true place? Call it Hades, call it Sheol, it does not matter, the place is real, and it is the place where the souls of the dead are collected.

 

[cgaviria]

1 Peter 3:18-21
"18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.In it only a few people, eight in all,were saved through water,21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear consciencetoward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

When Christ died on the cross he was made alive in the spirit and preached to the imprisoned spirits in hades, proclaiming victory over death and freed the captives in paradise on the other side of the chasm and took them up to heaven with him. This is why Jesus said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" because at that time paradise was not yet in heaven.

This is an absolutely ridiculous doctrine. Jesus did not come to life till the third day, hello?

that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 15:4 [ESV])

It was after the third day, that he then preached to the fallen angels in prison. Also, the thief is not in paradise, because the resurrection of the dead has not occurred yet. When Jesus said, "today you will be with me in paradise", he meant "today, you will be with me in paradise", or rather "as of today, you will be with me in paradise". And we know this to be true because the thief was not in paradise on that day when Jesus Christ died. Read and learn.

 

[Uncle Mikey]

so anyone not written in the book of life gets tossed into a bird?

Do you honestly not know what a Phoenix is and what it represents or are you being flippant?

The Lake of Fire is Gehenna, or as the KJV calls it... "The Valley of the Son of Hinnom".

It's where the Phonecians (Phoenix) lived.

Phoenix = Rebirth/Reincarnation

Guess what the Phonecians did there in Gehenna?

Jeremiah32:35
"And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin"

The Phoenix People passed their children through the Lake of Fire...

Yes through, not "in"...

TO MOLECH.

In other words, the Lake of Fire is not the 'end of the story' like the False Teachers would have us believe.

One has to keep following the bread crumbs.

Molech is the Firery 'Cow God'.

Why the Cow?

Understand?

Yes, the Golden Calf, Molech, etc. represents the Female Reproductive System.

Thus 'passing the seed'....

Leviticus18:21
"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD"

In order to "pass their seed" to Molech, the Seed must go through the Lake of Fire first...

Sorry if I'm being vulgar here, but it is what it is.

God says we come from Hell which is the Womb!

the "Fire" is the Passion and Lust of conception...

James 1:15
"Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death"

Twofold the Child of Hell (i.e. Born Again)...

Psalm 51:5
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me"

And don't even get me started on "The Worm that Dieth Not" (i.e. DNA)...

LOL!

You folks need to seriously meditate on all of this.

Time is short.