what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences

[dentonz]

You mean that God commands men "Thou shalt not kill" and then commands men to kill?

The Gospel don't teaches us this second part of the Old Testament who commands kill people ... And that second part is totally against what Jesus Christ commands, and Jecucristo is God.

If someone is killed to defend a life, or is executed by law; it is justice and the rule of law that commits the 'killing'.
Men are the hands of Justice and law. If an 'innocent' person goes and plays with a lion cub, and the lioness tears the person to shreds; who is at fault for the death of the person? Their blood is on their hands, not the lions. If a person is attacking my wife, myself, child, or anyone else with perceived intent to kill or otherwise induce severe bodily harm and I kill them, I am not responsible for their death; they are. The laws of God, man, and nature throughout the history of the world, give every living thing the right to protect itself from any and all harm, including killing anything that would bring such harm.

 

[Porque77]

Deuteronomy 22
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death.

That is monstrous, and unrelated to what the Gospel commands.

All the commandments of the Gospel are merciful. And the Gospel contains the true law of God.

The precepts of the Old Testament which command kill people, are just precepts of men.

Jesus abolished from the Old Testament all the precepts of men.

 

[miamited]

Hi porque,

Ok.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Radagast]

But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.

Not really. Romans 13:4 endorses executions by the government ("... he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.").

 

[Porque77]

......But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.

Not really. Romans 13:4 endorses executions by the government ("... he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.").

That's what tell us the difficult points of Paul's letters that were distorted by the unlearned, but Jesus says some thing different:

"But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave; even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)

Jesus Christ did not command us to preach the letters attributed to Paul. Jesus Christ commanded to preach the Gospel.

Paul himself tells us that we mustn't believe in different gospels, which aren't the Gospel that Jesus Christ preached us, as well says:

"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed". (Galatians 1:6-9)

This teaches us that the difficult points of the letters attributed to Paul should be reviewed in the light of the Gospel always remembering these words of Paul: "there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed"

 

[Porque77]

Hi porque,

Ok.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

God bless you, Ted.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Addressing the title question: The gospel (good news) of the death sentence is that everyone who dies is set free from sin. (Romans 6:7) That's the only good news passage I recall written about dying.

Addressing the OP question: The death penalty is kind of a primitive way of dealing with things, it admits that they are beyond all hope of prayer or God convicting their hearts to change in cases where it is justified. However, as it is written in 1st John that a murderer has no eternal life within him when drawing an induction toward hatred, it is a valid question ... if the person was not guilty of the death worthy offense ... who then would be responsible for the blood of the innocent?

(EDIT) So then since I do not deem the state as a competent judge to be 100% correct in these matters ... and do not wish to be responsible for murder .. I'd vote no to the death penatly.

 

[Porque77]

So then since I do not deem the state as a competent judge to be 100% correct in these matters ... and do not wish to be responsible for murder .. I'd vote no to the death penatly.

It is good that you vote no to the death penalty, because God is above the governments of all states ... and God's law tells states: "YOU SHALL NOT KILL"

 

[Porque77]

..... but merely to show that the Scriptures do make the claim that God himself spoke unto the Israelites and commanded that certain offenses be punishable by death. He says that they are to show no pity for those who have committed such offenses.

If you want to know the commandments God gave men in the time of Moses must know the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ ... because Jesus Christ is God and'Jesucristo is the one who gave the law to Moses ... Jesus Christ abolished these commandments old testament that commands men to kill people. And he abolished because those commandments were not of God.

Jesus Christ came to restore the true law of God. And the Gospel don't commands those atrocities.

It seems painfully obvious that every time Jesus mentioned the 'Scriptures', he was not referring to the four gospels as they hadn't been written yet.

Every time Jesus speaks, the Gospel was being taught.

 

[Porque77]

If someone is killed to defend a life, or is executed by law; it is justice and the rule of law that commits the 'killing'.
Men are the hands of Justice and law.....

What you say is not what the Jesus teaches us, because Jesús commands: "Thou shalt not kill". And this commandment is for all men.

If a person is attacking my wife, myself, child, or anyone else with perceived intent to kill or otherwise induce severe bodily harm and I kill them, I am not responsible for their death; they are.....

That's not what the Gospel teaches, because the Gospel teaches that Jesus did not kill the men who came to hurt Him. And the Gospel teaches that the apostle Peter, to defend Jesus, he wounded one of the men who came to arrest Jesus to be crucified and Jesus healed the wounded man and corrected Peter telling him to put his sword in its place.

So what you teach is not what the Gospel teaches.

 

[dentonz]

What you say is not what the Jesus teaches us, because Jesús commands: "Thou shalt not kill". And this commandment is for all men.


That's not what the Gospel teaches, because the Gospel teaches that Jesus did not kill the men who came to hurt Him. And the Gospel teaches that the apostle Peter, to defend Jesus, he wounded one of the men who came to arrest Jesus to be crucified and Jesus healed the wounded man and corrected Peter telling him to put his sword in its place.

So what you teach is not what the Gospel teaches.

Jesus was quoting the law which has been understood throughout history to be what we know in English to be murder. After the law was written by the hand of God and given to Moses; Joshua, Gideon, Samson, David, and others all carried out justice under the anointing of God in the way of "killing" tens of thousands of people. When David killed Goliath, was he breaking the law?

To your second point...What the gospel teaches is actually that Jesus was "killed" to pay the just punishment of man's sin. All are guilty by the law of God and worthy of death, so Jesus paid the law's price for us; therefore he was willing to go quietly to his death to fulfill the just punishment of God. Why was Peter carrying a sword in the first place? You do know that a sword's only purpose is to "kill" humans. Swords have never been used by any culture as hunting weapons, they are only used as offensive or defensive weapons against other people. So the only reason Peter would have even been carrying a sword is to be able to defend himself and others against evil men.

God has never ordered anyone to give up the right to defend yourself, your belongings, your family, or others. Which do you think would be more right in your eyes: defending your family and killing an attacker, or allowing the attacker to murder you, and rape your wife and children?

 

[Porque77]

Jesus was quoting the law which has been understood throughout history to be what we know in English to be murder. After the law was written by the hand of God and given to Moses....

What Jesus Christ, Who is God who became man, taught really is: "YOU SHALL NOT KILL". And He taught that you should not kill in any case, because he said that who is without sin be the first to throw a stone against the sinner, and this means that no one has and no one had ever, authority to kill others, because all men are sinners.

To your second point...What the gospel teaches is actually that Jesus was "killed" to pay the just punishment of man's sin. All are guilty by the law of God and worthy of death, so Jesus paid the law's price for us; therefore he was willing to go quietly to his death to fulfill the just punishment of God.

The Gospel does not teach what you say. What the Gospel teaches is that Jesus is God who became man and revealed us the commandments that He truly had given Moses.

And Jesus went to die to give us his example, teaching us that even in the worst times of persecution and threat, He did not kill anyone, and prevented others defend him with the sword. By His Example, Jesus taught us that He did not want men kill others men, because His Law never gave orders to kill people. His Law, for ever and ever, is love, mercy and forgiveness.

Why was Peter carrying a sword in the first place?

Because Jesus would teach to Peter and all apostles, not to use the sword to kill. And Jesus gave His example to teach us not to harm or kill, even in the worst times of persecution and threats against our lives. That was the sense that Peter had a sword at that time.

God has never ordered anyone to give up the right to defend yourself, your belongings, your family, or others......

Jesus said: "Thou shalt not kill", and all His commandments teach not to hurt or kill. Therefore, men should not kill. In times of persecution, Jesus said:

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come". (Matthew 10:23)

 

[Porque77]

miamited said: ↑
..... After all, as a child of the one true and living God, I know that there will be justice. It may not come in my lifetime, but it will come. I'm perfectly satisfied to wait upon the Lord. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. I have no authority on my own whatsoever in any circumstance to take another person's life. As I understand it, that's the law of God. I don't have the authority to take another life in anger. I don't have the authority to take another person's life because I may be mentally unbalanced at the time. I have no individual authority from God to take another person's life, period.

What if a doctor gave a child drugs that effected his thinking? Would it be his fault or the drugs? In all those school shooting incidents the shooter was taking psychiatric drugs. Before these drugs became available, I didn't hear about any school shootings which means they probably wouldn't have done it if they weren't taking the drugs which they may have been given against their will. Is it just to hold them responsible when the drugs were the reason they killed all those people?

Hi Samir. Here we are not talking about cases where people do not have good mental faculties, but of people who their mind is working and they know what is "You shall not kill". Therefore, anyone who knows what it is to kill, should not do it, because God commanded, "Thou shalt not kill" and is a commandment for everyone.

Nobody have authority to take another person's life. Only God have that authority. About that's what we're talking about.

 

[Porque77]

Hi Samir. Here we are not talking about cases where people do not have good mental faculties, but of people who their mind is working and they know what is "You shall not kill". Therefore, anyone who knows what it is to kill, should not do it, because God commanded, "Thou shalt not kill" and is a commandment for everyone.

Nobody have authority to take another person's life. Only God have that authority. About that's what we're talking about.

Samir, did you understand me?

 

[samir]

Samir, did you understand me?

Yes, I understood you. I agree Christians don't have the right to take another person's life but I'm not so sure about the government. Is there anything in scripture that says the death penalty is wrong?

 

[Porque77]

Yes, I understood you. I agree Christians don't have the right to take another person's life but I'm not so sure about the government.

Are you not sure? ... Then you must remember what Jesus said when He preached the Gospel?:

"Jesus called them together and said," You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant, and whoever wants to be first, be servant of all, in the same manner as the son of man is not come to be served but to serve and give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20: 25-28)

The emperors of Rome never wanted the commandments of the Gospel. So, in the fourth century, they abandoned the commandments of the Gospel and reimposed Old Testament laws to enslave the nations.

Is there anything in scripture that says the death penalty is wrong?

Yes. In Matthew 19:18, Jesus Christ said: "You shall not kill" (Matthew 19: 16-22). And when the Jews brought a woman accused of adultery to kill her with stones, Jesus said:

"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:3-11)

With these words, Jesus taught us that no man has the authority to kill people, because all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who was the only sinless, He neither did condemn the woman, and He said to her:

"Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again." (John 8:3-11)

Jesus is God who became man, gave us his example for us to understand that God does not want men kill to people.

 

[samir]

Are you not sure? ... Then you must remember what Jesus said when He preached the Gospel?:

"Jesus called them together and said," You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant, and whoever wants to be first, be servant of all, in the same manner as the son of man is not come to be served but to serve and give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20: 25-28)

That says the leaders in the church are to be humble and not lord their power over the lay Christians like worldly rulers sometimes rule with an iron fist over their subjects. What does that have to do with the death penalty?

The emperors of Rome never wanted the commandments of the Gospel. So, in the fourth century, they abandoned the commandments of the Gospel and reimposed Old Testament laws to enslave the nations.

What are you talking about? I never heard of the Roman empire accepting Old Testament laws.

Yes. In Matthew 19:18, Jesus Christ said: "You shall not kill" (Matthew 19: 16-22).

Of course believers and the church are not to kill other people but what does that have to do with the government executing people? You're going beyond what is written.

And when the Jews brought a woman accused of adultery to kill her with stones, Jesus said:

"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:3-11)

With these words, Jesus taught us that no man has the authority to kill people, because all men are sinners.



And Jesus, who was the only sinless, He neither did condemn the woman, and He said to her:

"Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again." (John 8:3-11)

Jesus is God who became man, gave us his example for us to understand that God does not want men kill to people.

Interesting interpretation. I interpret it differently. How do you know Jesus really said those words in John 8? My NIV translation has a footnote that says, "The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11."

 

[Porque77]

..... you must remember what Jesus said when He preached the Gospel?:

"Jesus called them together and said," You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant, and whoever wants to be first, be servant of all, in the same manner as the son of man is not come to be served but to serve and give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20: 25-28)

That says the leaders in the church are to be humble and not lord their power over the lay Christians like worldly rulers sometimes rule with an iron fist over their subjects. What does that have to do with the death penalty?

Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so...", and Jesus said this because He did not like men dominating over others, neither in the Church, neither in the nations.

And it has much to do with the death penalty because they are the powerful who rule over others who impose death penalty, and if Jesus does not like men to have others as slaves, neither rule over them, much less He likes men kill other men.

Only God has the authority over the lives of people. Men should respect the commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".

What are you talking about? I never heard of the Roman empire accepting Old Testament laws.

Who chose the writings of the Old Testament to compose bibles? You should know it.

The Rome's powerful men of the fourth-century and religion of the empire, were who included in the scriptures the Old Testament commandments that ordered death sentences, wars and slavery that Jesus had abolished. They did not respect Jesus Christ

Of course believers and the church are not to kill other people but what does that have to do with the government executing people? You're going beyond what is written.

The teachings of the Gospel and his commandments are for all Christians, FOR ALL PEOPLE, because Jesus said:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but whoever does not believe will be. condemned". (Mark 16:15-16).

 

[samir]

Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so...", and Jesus said this because He did not like men dominating over others, neither in the Church, neither in the nations.

And it has much to do with the death penalty because they are the powerful who rule over others who impose death penalty, and if Jesus does not like men to have others as slaves, neither rule over them, much less He likes men kill other men.

You are going well beyond what is written. The verse only addresses the leaders in the church, not the civil authority. It says absolutely nothing about how the rulers of nations should treat their subjects. Therefore, it says absolutely nothing regarding the death penalty.

Only God has the authority over the lives of people. Men should respect the commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".

The commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" which means kill unlawfully. The same law that included that commandments required the civil authority to kill so you are twisting scripture when you quote that verse to oppose the death penalty.

Who chose the writings of the Old Testament to compose bibles? You should know it.

The catholic and orthodox churches (the only ones that existed) chose which Old Testament books to accept. The Roman Empire had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The Rome's powerful men of the fourth-century and religion of the empire, were who included in the scriptures the Old Testament commandments that ordered death sentences, wars and slavery that Jesus had abolished. They did not respect Jesus Christ

Are you saying including the Old Testament in the bible is a rejection of Jesus Christ? Did you remove the OT from your bible?

The teachings of the Gospel and his commandments are for all Christians, FOR ALL PEOPLE, because Jesus said:

"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but whoever does not believe will be. condemned". (Mark 16:15-16).

What does that have to do with the government executing people? Are you saying the government should preach the gospel too?

 

[Porque77]

Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so...", and Jesus said this because He did not like men dominating over others, neither in the Church, neither in the nations.

And it has much to do with the death penalty because they are the powerful who rule over others who impose death penalty, and if Jesus does not like men to have others as slaves, neither rule over them, much less He likes men kill other men.

Only God has the authority over the lives of people. Men should respect the commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".

You are going well beyond what is written. The verse only addresses the leaders in the church, not the civil authority. It says absolutely nothing about how the rulers of nations should treat their subjects. Therefore, it says absolutely nothing regarding the death penalty.

The teaching of Jesus on that quote, clearly indicates that Jesus does not like that the men tyrannize the nations, nor oppress with their power. That's why Jesus said the apostles: "Among you there must not be so"

And Jesus also taught that no one should kill in any case, because He said that he who is without sin be the first to throw a stone against the sinner, and this means that no one has, and no one had, authority to kill others because all men are sinners

The commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" which means kill unlawfully.

You're forgetting that Jesus taught that no one should kill in any case, because He said that he who is without sin, be the first to throw a stone against the sinner, and this means that no one has, and no one had in any moment, authority to kill others because all men are sinners.