what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences

Porque77

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Many religions and many religious, for different reasons, preach that Christians can kill the men who commit certain serious offenses. They justify death sentences in many cases ... These religious who accepted penalties death as if were God's law , are justified in many old testament laws ... But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.
 

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The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,'
This is Jesus quoting the Old Testament so the meaning must remain the same. The Old Testament prohibition was against murder, not killing which is permissible in war and in carrying out the law. So this verse cannot pertain to the death penalty.

'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.
This cannot be taken as a commandment from Jesus or a revocation of the authority to carry out the death penalty because this would be changing the law. Jesus was calling them out for their hypocrisy because they were zealous to carry out the punishment on somebody else when they were likely guilty of the same sin.

The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 17:7)

The people that Jesus was speaking to would fall into the category of what I highlighted in red. Jesus called them out and their conscious convicted them because they wanted to hand out the same punishment that they themselves deserved.
 
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Greg J.

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I'm not sure when it happened (probably in part through Hollywood), but Americans frequently have more sympathy for someone who commits a crime and less sympathy for the victim. It depends on how the crime is presented (or spun). Thought experiment: Don't ask "what is the right punishment for this crime," but rather "what punishment has this man earned for himself."

It is incorrect to view the Old Testament as no longer applying to us. That's oversimplistic. It is not a bad place to be, but it is only partway along the path. It shows us God's nature extremely well, what he approves of, and what he does not. To fulfill the first and greatest commandment (Matthew 22:37-8), we must know God as well as possible.

So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. (2 Corinthians 5:9, 1984 NIV)

God is ultimately responsible for the fact that we are alive. It is he that sustains our life until such time as he decides otherwise. No one on earth has the right to murder another person—but it is still done. A murderer must violate someone’s God-given right to life to kill them.

But the murderer does not become a murderer when his victim dies. He becomes a murderer when his thought to murder turns into an intention. God knows when a thought turns into an intention, but we cannot. Our governmental laws reflect our inability to see a person’s intentions. The laws examine only the verifiable physical world facts—primarily what a person’s actions were.

Accommodating that limitation means that at the moment a person points a gun at another with the intention or possible intention to murder, he yields his right to life. Both God’s justice and our laws allow that the offender can be killed if it will stop the crime from being committed. A police officer who kills the gun pointer has done a good thing—not the taking of the life which is always sad—but of preventing someone from destroying the only life the potential victim has.

The issue of capital punishment is regularly brought into the light of public debate. Often the focus is its deterrent effect, which is an important aspect of what a just sentence is, because crimes affect a whole community, through the friends and relatives of the criminal and the victim, and even of those who simply read about the crime.

However, the primary focus should be on what a just punishment is. Our own fear of death gives many of us queasiness about capital punishment. None of us wants to experience capital punishment, and we project our fear onto the criminal and say it should not be done to him, either.

Just punishment has its foundation in believing in and knowing a God of justice. Our increasingly secular society has no choice but to look to other sources such as its deterrent effect and what “seems right.” That capital punishment leaves no room for remediation of the criminal is seen as an argument against capital punishment. The misunderstanding in that is punishment is often seen as a mode of correction. While they both have their place, just punishment need not be corrective.

The death penalty is a more severe form of punishment than decades in prison, but it is not cruel or unusual punishment, and allowing a criminal to live can sometimes be the greatest injustice of all.

That the victim doesn't have to die for murderer to be guilty of murder, see Matthew 5:21-22. When the government executes a justly convicted murderer, it is not "murder," it is just punishment—see Romans 13:3-4 among others. Someone who commits a crime cannot be seen as someone who, by his crime, earned the right to food, clothing, and shelter (in prison) paid for by the government (through taxes). The people, through the government, extends this grace because it is good for the community. If someone doesn't care to respect another's life, he is speaking more loudly than with his voice that it is OK to kill someone against their will. A crime of passion is not exempt—he has proved that he is has a violent nature without enough control over it. Here's a different kind of crime (i.e., someone who framed another for the crime).

If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime, the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time.The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother, then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 19:16-19, 1984 NIV)

We won't be seeing Deuteronomy 21:18-21 anytime soon. It is harsh, but then, so is rejecting any God-instituted authority, more than it seems to us who grew up in a culture where being rebellious is "cool."

Portions of this post are reprinted with permission from Through God-Colored Glasses.
 
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Porque77

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This is Jesus quoting the Old Testament so the meaning must remain the same. The Old Testament prohibition was against murder, not killing which is permissible in war and in carrying out the law......
THOU SHALL NOT KILL? ... OR THOU SHALL NOT MURDER? ... WHAT DID JESUS COMMAND? ...

The words mistranslated in some Judaizing Bibles that say, "You shall not murder" can not change the entire context of the Gospel that tells us: "NO KILL" ... because Jesus told us: "NO KILL" and also told us forgive seventy times seven the faults of men, also he said "I want mercy and not sacrifice" and when men kill a person commit unspeakable human sacrifice ... and Jesus also command us to love our enemies, and also told us we must be peacemakers, that when somebody hit aur cheek, turn the other also, and he who is without sin cast the first stone against the sinner.

All men are sinners, no one is free of sin. So no one should take away the lives of others.

Did Jesus Christ condemn to death those who crucified him? ... Or did ask forgiveness for them? ...

The Christian tradition of always tells us: "NO KILL" but now many Judaizing groups have appeared, who with one word: "You shall not murder", want to change all the merciful teaching of the Gospel... These Judaizing abandoned the commandments of Jesus Christ and they turned back to the old Jewish laws that Jesus Christ abolished with his blood.

And so, those Jewish, friends of the terrible punishments and death sentences that God had not commanded, killed Jesus...

God is owns all life, and He knows who should live and who should die. Therefore, Jesus Christ, who is God, commanded the men in all the context of the Gospel, the true Law of God..., Law that commands to men: "YOU WILL NOT KILL".
 
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mikedsjr

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So Greg, let me suspend my stance on the death penalty. What should a murderer get? Just let him walk the streets because the Bible says love your enemies? Maybe but him a loaded gun? Or if he shoots a person's spouse, should the person turn the other cheek and let him shoot their kids too? Is that loving? Maybe all the enemy wants to do is just slap the crap out of you? Should you just turn that cheek sideways and let him keep slapping away?
 
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Porque77

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So Greg, let me suspend my stance on the death penalty.
OKEY...................

What should a murderer get?..........
A GOOD CORRECTION... AS THE GOSPEL TEACHES.

Just let him walk the streets because the Bible says love your enemies?
Every person who do hurt must be corrected... but must be corrected as the Gospel teaches.

The Gospel teaches forgiveness and mercy...
 
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mikedsjr

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You didn't answer the questions. Not surprising. I don't expect agreement. You must be willing to take your stance all the way through to its extreme.

OKEY...................


A GOOD CORRECTION... AS THE GOSPEL TEACHES.


Every person who do hurt must be corrected... but must be corrected as the Gospel teaches.

The Gospel teaches forgiveness and mercy...

Hurt? Murder is worse than just hurting someone. How do you correct murder? Do you still let them walk the streets? Isn't jailing an act of hate, by your literal interpretation, since your suppressing their rights to move around?
 
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miamited

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Many religions and many religious, for different reasons, preach that Christians can kill the men who commit certain serious offenses. They justify death sentences in many cases ... These religious who accepted penalties death as if were God's law , are justified in many old testament laws ... But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.

Hi porque,

I believe that your question isn't quite right in what it's saying. Christians have no authority to kill anyone as an individual believer. However, the Scriptures seem clear to me that the government does have God's authority to bear the sword. Yes, government personnel are often comprised of Christians. However, I believe that God expects us to be able to separate the authority that He has given unto governments, which the Scriptures tell us were all instituted by Him, and the authority that an individual has. Even in the death sentences under the old covenant, it wasn't for a single man to inflict judgment on someone for breaking the law. The entire community was to come together and participate. That is exactly what our justice system tries to reflect. Although it isn't really the 'entire' community, the jury system is designed to be representative of the values of the community in which the case is being handled. Our justice system does seek justice based on what is believed to be the majority will of the people at large.

The respective government under which a person is brought to give testimony and bring forth witnesses does have the authority to set the standard of law for that community over which it exists. I believe that this is well within the parameters of God's command and design for the social living of mankind.

So, my answer to your question is that, no, Christians do not have the authority to take upon themselves individually to hand down a death sentence for another's actions and thus kill that person by their own hand. Governments, which may be made up of Christians, do. It is not for nothing that they bear the sword. What exactly do you believe the Scriptures mean in phrasing that response as it does? That 'it is not for nothing'.

This is what Paul wrote to the Roman believers.

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

He seems to clearly explain that governments are God's servants. Agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. He also clearly says that it is for your good that they are there. Why would this be? Because it relieves you of the personal responsibility and the possibility of making a wrong judgment against someone else and thereby bringing God's wrath down upon your own head.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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dentonz

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THOU SHALL NOT KILL? ... OR THOU SHALL NOT MURDER? ... WHAT DID JESUS COMMAND? ...

The words mistranslated in some Judaizing Bibles that say, "You shall not murder" can not change the entire context of the Gospel that tells us: "NO KILL" ... because Jesus told us: "NO KILL" and also told us forgive seventy times seven the faults of men, also he said "I want mercy and not sacrifice" and when men kill a person commit unspeakable human sacrifice ... and Jesus also command us to love our enemies, and also told us we must be peacemakers, that when somebody hit aur cheek, turn the other also, and he who is without sin cast the first stone against the sinner.

All men are sinners, no one is free of sin. So no one should take away the lives of others.

Did Jesus Christ condemn to death those who crucified him? ... Or did ask forgiveness for them? ...

The Christian tradition of always tells us: "NO KILL" but now many Judaizing groups have appeared, who with one word: "You shall not murder", want to change all the merciful teaching of the Gospel... These Judaizing abandoned the commandments of Jesus Christ and they turned back to the old Jewish laws that Jesus Christ abolished with his blood.

And so, those Jewish, friends of the terrible punishments and death sentences that God had not commanded, killed Jesus...

God is owns all life, and He knows who should live and who should die. Therefore, Jesus Christ, who is God, commanded the men in all the context of the Gospel, the true Law of God..., Law that commands to men: "YOU WILL NOT KILL".

Even if you interpret the scriptures to say kill instead of murder, when someone is executed for a capital offense or is killed in the commission of a capital offense, who actually is killing the offender? If someone is attacking my wife with imminent/deadly force, whatever I do to them is on their hands. That person would not die if they didn't commit the offense. If someone draws a gun with intent to shoot me, and I happen to shoot first, who did the killing? Not I, but justice and the rule of natural law. If you taunt a lion cub and the mother kills you, who is at fault for your death?
 
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Greg J.

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So Greg, let me suspend my stance on the death penalty. What should a murderer get? Just let him walk the streets because the Bible says love your enemies? Maybe but him a loaded gun? Or if he shoots a person's spouse, should the person turn the other cheek and let him shoot their kids too? Is that loving? Maybe all the enemy wants to do is just slap the crap out of you? Should you just turn that cheek sideways and let him keep slapping away?

God is not only concerned about individual rights, but also highly concerned with what will happen to communities, including down the generations.

The Law given to Moses is a revelation of God's nature, so there is a lot of information useful for gaining perspective on what is right vs. wrong—that includes what appropriate punishments are for individuals for those concerned about the future Godliness of the community. We see a lot of severity from God in the OT, because so many narratives are of people living in ways that would pass rampant evil down to the next generation, not because God is inordinately severe. The One who knows what God is really like best describes him in Exodus 34:6-7. By the way, the punishment down the generations mentioned are the natural consequences of sin (God's punishment from an eternal viewpoint, but not temporal), not God punishing people for things they didn't do. (Ezekiel 18:19-20)

The consequences of sin still always happen, whether someone is forgiven or not. (Romans 5:13) So it is God's mercy for future and neighboring people to try to stop the spread of sin and evil.

Consider how bad it was before the flood: The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. (bold mine, Genesis 6:5, 1984 NIV) Killing almost everyone on earth sounds pretty awful, but then, can anyone even imagine how horrific that world was like?

Most importantly, God's forgiveness doesn't mean we are somehow not accountable to our community for our actions. Scripture testifies that we are even still accountable to God, though we are forgiven.

It is a misunderstanding to think that turning the other cheek somehow lessens the need for justice. If you want the character of God (and be obedient to his commands), individuals will choose to turn the cheek and be forgiving in nature as part of the path to becoming more like God. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't turn a dangerous person into the police. It also doesn't mean you should let someone kill you if you can stop him. This pure patient and forgiving nature is what God's nature is, but he still decides when enough is enough.
 
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Hoghead1

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God is not only concerned about individual rights, but also highly concerned with what will happen to communities, including down the generations.

The Law given to Moses is a revelation of God's nature, so there is a lot of information useful for gaining perspective on what is right vs. wrong—that includes what appropriate punishments are for individuals for those concerned about the future Godliness of the community. We see a lot of severity from God in the OT, because so many narratives are of people living in ways that would pass rampant evil down to the next generation, not because God is inordinately severe. The One who knows what God is really like best describes him in Exodus 34:6-7. By the way, the punishment down the generations mentioned are the natural consequences of sin (God's punishment from an eternal viewpoint, but not temporal), not God punishing people for things they didn't do. (Ezekiel 18:19-20)

The consequences of sin still always happen, whether someone is forgiven or not. (Romans 5:13) So it is God's mercy for future and neighboring people to try to stop the spread of sin and evil.

Consider how bad it was before the flood: The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. (bold mine, Genesis 6:5, 1984 NIV) Killing almost everyone on earth sounds pretty awful, but then, can anyone even imagine how horrific that world was like?

Most importantly, God's forgiveness doesn't mean we are somehow not accountable to our community for our actions. Scripture testifies that we are even still accountable to God, though we are forgiven.

It is a misunderstanding to think that turning the other cheek somehow lessens the need for justice. If you want the character of God (and be obedient to his commands), individuals will choose to turn the cheek and be forgiving in nature as part of the path to becoming more like God. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't turn a dangerous person into the police. It also doesn't mean you should let someone kill you if you can stop him. This pure patient and forgiving nature is what God's nature is, but he still decides when enough is enough.

I beg top disagree. I find the OT God can be merciless and quite sadistic. The OT God is definitely not a God of love.
 
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Porque77

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Hurt? Murder is worse than just hurting someone. How do you correct murder? Do you still let them walk the streets? ........
Jesus says it all in the Gospel. You must examine His example when they chased Him and killed Him. I can not go beyond what the Gospel says.
 
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Porque77

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Hi porque,
.....However, the Scriptures seem clear to me that the government does have God's authority to bear the sword........
Jesus does not agree with you, because Jesus Christ did not send Christians to use the sword to kill, because his command was: "NO KILL".

Moreover, Jesus taught so:

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. Not so shall it be among you: but whosoever would become great among you shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first
among you shall be your servant: even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many". (Matth 20:25-28)
 
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mikedsjr

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Jesus says it all in the Gospel. You must examine His example when they chased Him and killed Him. I can not go beyond what the Gospel says.

The Gospels, if your stuck in the 4 books only, never says one is not to become a police officer, jailer, judge, juror, or politician. The gospels do not say a person can not decide within the scope of their law whether a person is guilty of a crime and sentence them appropriately. The Gospels do not say a criminal can not be given the death penalty and sentenced to death by his peers for his crime. That is a civil matter. What is clear is a person, in anger can not take a life. That's not what occurs in a judicial system.

Where the Scripture is silent, I can decide how I view a law. It is not unloving to sentence a man to death for murder. It is unloving to be a coward.
 
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miamited

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Jesus does not agree with you, because Jesus Christ did not send Christians to use the sword to kill, because his command was: "NO KILL".

Moreover, Jesus taught so:

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. Not so shall it be among you: but whosoever would become great among you shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first
among you shall be your servant: even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many". (Matth 20:25-28)

Hi porque,

That's right! Jesus did not send Christians to kill. His Father created governments for that. Individually, as a born again believer in the Lord Jesus, we are not to murder or kill another. However, governments, as the earthly rulers over men, do have that authority. Glad I was able to clear that up.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Many religions and many religious, for different reasons, preach that Christians can kill the men who commit certain serious offenses. They justify death sentences in many cases ... These religious who accepted penalties death as if were God's law , are justified in many old testament laws ... But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.

You are confusing personal behavior with that of the state. Following your logic, if I slap a cop in the face he should turn the other cheek. . .

The state bears the sword, and that sword is given to the state by God as a way to impart justice and to protect people.

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. (Romans 13:1-5)
An example of the different actions of state and individual would be: If your spouse were killed in a car crash caused by a drunk driver, you can, and should, forgive the driver, but the authorities must punish this crime severely. They cannot forgive this, and we are glad that they don't.
 
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Porque77

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Hi porque,
That's right! Jesus did not send Christians to kill.
Very well said...

His Father created governments for that.
Did God create governments to kill?

Individually, as a born again believer in the Lord Jesus, we are not to murder or kill another.
Very well said...

However, governments, as the earthly rulers over men, do have that authority. Glad I was able to clear that up.
The rulers (those who govern the Christian peoples) have authority to correct the culprits.

But Jesus also commanded the rulers: "YOU NOT SHALL KILL" because this commandment is for all people.
 
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mikedsjr

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Very well said...


Did God create governments to kill?


Very well said...


The rulers (those who govern the Christian peoples) have authority to correct the culprits.

But Jesus also commanded the rulers: "YOU NOT SHALL KILL" because this commandment is for all people.

Where does it say in your 4 book long Bible does it say Jesus said rulers should not kill? We need a direct quote, since you're so literal.
 
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Many religions and many religious, for different reasons, preach that Christians can kill the men who commit certain serious offenses. They justify death sentences in many cases ... These religious who accepted penalties death as if were God's law , are justified in many old testament laws ... But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.
You are confusing personal behavior with that of the state. Following your logic, if I slap a cop in the face he should turn the other cheek. . .
Christians should respect all authority.

The state bears the sword, and that sword is given to the state by God as a way to impart justice and to protect people.
The Christian rulers have authority to correct the culprits.

But they should not use weapons to kill, because Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT KILL".

Jesus also said that we should forgive people seventy times seven. A state that does not forgive, is not a Christian state. Those who do not forgive, can kill innocent people, like the Jews rulers commanded to kill Jesus. Like the Roman gobernanates tortured and killed Jesus.


Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.
The authorities that God established from the beginning, have God's commandment that says, "YOU SHALL NOT KILL" ... Those authorities who kill, do not comply the commandment of God.

The authorities who kill can be Jewish or Judaizing. But the Christian authorities have the command of Jesus Christ. And the commandment of Christ says, "You shall not kill".

Jesus abolished all death sentences.


The authorities that exist have been established by God
If they kill, they aren't established by God, because God comnand: "YOU SHALL NOT KILL".

The persons can be corrected, but the Christians musn't kill.


3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.
You mean the Nazi rulers, Communists and dictators were there to do what God commands?
 
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