What is the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's witness?

[he-man]

To start off, I have noticed that you provide only an "IMO" or "in my opinion", never giving firm backing to your position from the Bible, unlike Jesus who said "It is written" to show that what he said was backed by Jehovah God.(Matt 4:4, 7, 10) This provides no credibility. When the Jewish religious leaders confronted Jesus, they either twisted the meaning of the Hebrew Scriptures or they just condemned Jesus outright.(Matt 12:1, 2, 9-14)

The Mormons give only lip service to the Bible, relegating it below the Book of Mormons. In effect, what they are doing is saying that Jehovah God is incapable of producing his word without corruption, that it is faulty. Yet, Jesus, speaking of the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures and quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3, said that "man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah's mouth."(Matt 4:4) It does not say "the mouth of the Lord" (KJV) but Jehovah's mouth.

Jesus cannot be "the Eternal God" and at the same time say that "Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28) That Jesus is subservient to Jehovah God is seen in what Jesus said: "I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him."(John 8:28, 29)

Further, the apostle Matthew quoted from Isaiah 42:1, whereby God prophetically says of Jesus his son: "Look ! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom my soul approved ! I will put my spirit upon him."(Matt 12:18)

Thus, Jesus is called Jehovah's "servant", "my beloved" who has received his Father's approval and his spirit. This alone rules out his being "the Eternal God". He is not equal in power or authority as his Father, for even after he told his apostles that "all authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth" following his resurrection (Matt 28:18), the apostle Paul wrote that "Christ, in turn, belongs to God"(1 Cor 3:23) and "the head of the Christ is God."(1 Cor 11:3)

Jesus furthermore said in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3) There is thus no other God but one, Jehovah, that is Almighty.(Gen 17:1; Rev 15:3)

What Mormon prophet Lorenzo Snow (1814-1901) once said, that "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become", contradicts emphatically the Bible. Jehovah God had no beginning (Ps 90:2), nor was a man, but rather is the "Grand Creator" of all the universe.(Ec 12:1, "Grand Creator", Hebrew Boh·re’ey´kha. The participle of the Hebrew verb “create” is plural to denote grandeur or excellence)

And man will never become "as God now is", for Jehovah God is alone the "one true God."(John 17:3) Samuel told king Saul after his disobeying Jehovah's command concerning the Amalekites, that "the Excellency of Israel....is not an earthling man so as to feel regrets."(1 Sam 15:29)

Of Jesus, the apostle Paul wrote that he is "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."(Col 1:15) Hence, Jesus had a beginning, being Jehovah's firstborn, for Paul also uses the word firstborn concerning Jesus again at Hebrew 1:6, saying: "But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And all of God's angels do obeisance to him."

According to Doctrines and Covenants 130:22, it says that "the Father has a body of flesh, and bones as tangible as man's." This again contradicts Jesus words, that "God is a Spirit."(John 4:23) The apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus resurrection, he became "a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) When there was a discussion of Jehovah God and his angels of how king Ahab could be fooled, the Bible account says that "a spirit came out and stood before Jehovah."(1 Kings 22:21; 2 Chron 18:20)

At Psalms 104:4, it says that Jehovah God is "making his angels spirits." And at 1 Corinthians 15:50, the apostle Paul says that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom neither does corruption inherit incorruption." Thus, within the heavenly realm where God resides, only spirits exist, not flesh and blood.(1 Cor 15:50)

And concerning God's name, at Exodus 3:14, 15, Moses was told by God as to the meaning of his name: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”(Heb., היהא רשא היהא [’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´], God’s own self-designation) And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” Then God said once more to Moses: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name ("name", Hebrew shem) to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."

At Isaiah 42:8, God says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name ("name", Hebrew shem meaning "an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality", Strong's H8034); and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images."

Hence, God's name is not Elohim, for this means "God" or "gods" in Hebrew, being in plural, and when used of our Creator, denotes excellence or majesty and is a title, not his personal name. In fact, Elohim often follows Jehovah in many scriptures, such as twenty times at Genesis 2 and 3 alone.

The divine name, Jehovah, is the name God gave himself and not someone else, is revered by Jehovah's Witnesses just as Jesus revered it, placing the sanctifying or being made holy, first in the Lord's prayer, saying: "Let your name (Greek onoma) be sanctified."(Matt 6:9)

Psalms 148:13 says: "Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name is unreachably high. His dignity is above earth and heaven." True Christians "praise the name of Jehovah" as the Psalmist was inspired to write and as Jesus did.

And your saying that "All scripture has equal weight to the LDS", that how "the Bible" is "not the end to God's word, nor perfect in his word" is saying volumes, in effect your saying that Mormons might elevate the Bible "to the LDS" and not that Mormons see the "LDS" as equal weight to the Bible, putting what Joseph Smith wrote ahead of the Bible and that the Bible is flawed, and needs to corrected by additional books.

At Revelation 22:18, 19, Jesus says that "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll."

The Bible canon was complete with the book of Revelation (written in about 96 C.E.) and the other four books (John, 1 John, 2 John and 3 John) written by the apostle John.(in about 98 C.E.)

Yea, you light up my life!
Is 43:15 I am the LORD GOD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
6 Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and the redeemer, the LORD of hosts; I am the only first, and I am the last; and besides me is no God.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

 

[ldsfaqs]

It's really sad that people who claim to be Christian actually think other Christians are "stupid"....
That we don't know the above scripture, that we can't comprehend what it directly implies, and to then assume, that we must be just BLIND IDIOTS who blah blah blah....

Well, let me clue you all in. There is MORE TRUTH to the issue, more scripture truth.
Fine, if you want to deny it. Sure, deny and ignore all you want.
But, don't use scripture against us that we already believe. We believe the words, but we understand them in a different and bigger context, which shows the actual doctrine.

Anyway, enjoy....

Oh, and before you ask me to give my evidence, been there done that a million times. You all just ignore it anyway, and spend no effort to understand it. Because it actually takes a little effort to understand, and your programing is so complete, your eyes gloss over, and so you ignore it. Literal words are not always literal in scripture, and the Bible itself demonstrates it many times over.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

MOD HAT

Closing thread for a cleanup.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

MOD HAT... Coming off...

OK, here's the deal...

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Mark
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Reopening this thread...

 

[Mordecai Anielewicz]

DUH...! Wineskins ARE "jars" my friend. No difference in meaning, just different terms.

Actually Wine skins and Wine jars are two entirely different things and were used for entirely different purposes.

Wine skins were used in the past during the active phase of fermentation because they could expand to accommodate the CO2 generated by the fermentation process without bursting. The reason "new" wineskins were used with each new batch was because old wineskins had already been stretched to capacity and stood a much higher (almost certain) risk of bursting were they to be used again.

Wine jars or "amphorae" were used for storing and aging wine after the fermentation process had concluded. The narrow necks of amphorae were sealed with plugs covered with wax, pitch, or other resins in order to make them air tight so that the wine would not be contaminated or turn to vinegar.

Wine was not fermented in jars or other solid containers until the invention of fermentation locks or "bubblers" because the rapid expansion caused by the fermentation process would cause them to explode. Leaving the necks of amphorae open during the fermentation process was not an option because the wine would have been contaminated rendering it unfit for drinking.

 

[cupid dave]

Hello

What's the difference? They both canvas doors, stop people on streets and present a new gospel.

So what's the difference?

The similarities are fundamental in that they both deny the Trinity which makes their outlook muslim, not Christian, even Jewish, but absent the Law.

Where these perspectives fail is that they can not and do not define God, the Father, though they are still doors through which secular people can enter the kingdom of the Bible.
The Father is defined once the New testament reader recognizes that Christ is Truth, not love.



9Jesus saith unto him, "Have I, (the personification of Truth: [John 14:6]), been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?"

"He that hath seen me, (the ideal or concept of absolute Truth), hath seen the Father, (all the actually exists or can say "I am");

.... and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

 

[cupid dave]

Is 43:15 I am the LORD GOD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
6 Thus saith the Lord, the King of Israel, and the redeemer, the LORD of hosts; I am the only first, and I am the last; and besides me is no God.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

This is correct.

Truth is a spirit in our rmind.

Truth is a mental model we form in our head in order that our thinking correspond, one-to-one, with Reality, the almighty entity we met at birth.

Through our seven senses, we "image" (gen 1:26) this whole creation and creator of the "place" where we are both trapped and allowed to live.

Truth is the mediator between us and this almighty entity that both threatens and nurtures us.
But we can not distinguish between the model we form mentally, and that entity it reflects, inside our head.
So, this son of the ever unfolding almighty Reality is one and the same, as far as men are concerned.

 

[he-man]

Actually Wine skins and Wine jars are two entirely different things and were used for entirely different purposes.

Wine skins were used in the past during the active phase of fermentation because they could expand to accommodate the CO2 generated by the fermentation process without bursting. The reason "new" wineskins were used with each new batch was because old wineskins had already been stretched to capacity and stood a much higher (almost certain) risk of bursting were they to be used again.

Wine jars or "amphorae" were used for storing and aging wine after the fermentation process had concluded. The narrow necks of amphorae were sealed with plugs covered with wax, pitch, or other resins in order to make them air tight so that the wine would not be contaminated or turn to vinegar.

Wine was not fermented in jars or other solid containers until the invention of fermentation locks or "bubblers" because the rapid expansion caused by the fermentation process would cause them to explode. Leaving the necks of amphorae open during the fermentation process was not an option because the wine would have been contaminated rendering it unfit for drinking.

Very good!
Mr 2:22 And no one puts new' wine into old leather wine bags: if not the wine runs out of the leather wine bags, and the wine and the leather wine bags will be destroyed: but put new wine into new leather wine bags .

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Actually Wine skins and Wine jars are two entirely different things and were used for entirely different purposes.

Wine skins were used in the past during the active phase of fermentation because they could expand to accommodate the CO2 generated by the fermentation process without bursting. The reason "new" wineskins were used with each new batch was because old wineskins had already been stretched to capacity and stood a much higher (almost certain) risk of bursting were they to be used again.

Wine jars or "amphorae" were used for storing and aging wine after the fermentation process had concluded. The narrow necks of amphorae were sealed with plugs covered with wax, pitch, or other resins in order to make them air tight so that the wine would not be contaminated or turn to vinegar.

Wine was not fermented in jars or other solid containers until the invention of fermentation locks or "bubblers" because the rapid expansion caused by the fermentation process would cause them to explode. Leaving the necks of amphorae open during the fermentation process was not an option because the wine would have been contaminated rendering it unfit for drinking.

You are correct! Likewise, even after the fermentation "new wine" still contains dissolved carbon-dioxide, if one were to transport it, the agitation would cause it to ex-gas, and old skins and jars could burst.

 

[fatboys]

No. Why would He be?



No. Are you trying to say that we do things because we think God will reward us? If so, that's pretty poor theology, IMO. I believe that Christians follow Jesus because he is the author and finisher of our faith. The Bible tells us why, "We love him, because he first loved us." That's not self-serving.

Here is my problem with how you view God. Before God created was he complete? Did he want more? For what purpose? If God existed eons of time and was happy why did he create when he did? There has to be more purpose for our existance than what you teach.

Nope! We are not embryonic gods. Never can be and never will be. We are embryonic humans. We descend from the human family originated with Adam and Eve.

Actually that is not correct. We originated from a falling being that was immortal at one time that was created by God perfectly. And I know you don't believe as I do. That is okay.

Best answer? Because He wanted to. He wants his creation to be Holy, to be kind, to be loving, be compassionate, etc. He does NOT want us to take His place because no one can be like Him. Isaiah 43:10 proclaims quite clearly "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

He was speaking to those who believe in idols. God was not formed, that is true.

It sound like you are not happy with God's creation. Why is that? You can try to be like God, if you wish, and that is commendable AND Biblical. BUT, no matter how hard you try you will never be God. You will never have the spiritual and/or physical attributes. It is folly attempt to put yourself in a throne reserved for God.

So God commands us to do something we can not do? And you have a hard time with how we believe Adam fell? And we can become like him but never him. We are to become gods. Little g.

What, may I ask, is wrong with serving God alone?

[fatboys]Is that not self serving?

Again, NO!
I don't how you can call that "self serving" unless you have selfish reasons for obeying God. It is a matter of attitude, IMO. Like the Bible says ... because He first loved us.

Have Happy New Year, Fatboys.


Rufus [/QUOTE][/quote]

Happy New year back at ya as well. Anyway I just believe that there is more to the reason God created than what you believe. To me if God created us to worship him, and before he created no one worshipped him, that tells me that God felt lacking in something. I don't believe he was, but that is how I see the reason you believe is God's reason for creating us.

 

[ldsfaqs]

Actually Wine skins and Wine jars are two entirely different things and were used for entirely different purposes.

Wine skins were used in the past during the active phase of fermentation because they could expand to accommodate the CO2 generated by the fermentation process without bursting. The reason "new" wineskins were used with each new batch was because old wineskins had already been stretched to capacity and stood a much higher (almost certain) risk of bursting were they to be used again.

Wine jars or "amphorae" were used for storing and aging wine after the fermentation process had concluded. The narrow necks of amphorae were sealed with plugs covered with wax, pitch, or other resins in order to make them air tight so that the wine would not be contaminated or turn to vinegar.

Wine was not fermented in jars or other solid containers until the invention of fermentation locks or "bubblers" because the rapid expansion caused by the fermentation process would cause them to explode. Leaving the necks of amphorae open during the fermentation process was not an option because the wine would have been contaminated rendering it unfit for drinking.

That's an nice and interesting lesson on the aspects of skins and jars, but still has nothing to do with my original point and discussion other than, the aspect of the old skin bursting if new wine is put in it. It could be said that similar thing would occur if Christ had tried to put his new Gospel into the old skin, rather than a new skin, the whole thing would have burst and BOTH would be lost before it was even established.

Anyway, my point had nothing to do with the mechanics of skins and jars.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

<snip> It could be said that similar thing would occur if Christ had tried to put his new Gospel into the old skin, rather than a new skin, the whole thing would have burst and BOTH would be lost before it was even established.

Anyway, my point had nothing to do with the mechanics of skins and jars.

You got it! The mechanics were understood by those to whom Christ was speaking, so the analogy He used was important.

Likewise, read verse 16, un-shrunk cloth to repair and old garment.

 

[he-man]

Sigmar
We where created to live forever, to know God personally, to reflect his moral character - his love - through human relationships, and to exercise dominion over the rest of the living creatures on earth. From the biblical teaching on the image of God there is nothing which would warrant the conclusion that men are or ever will be " Gods" or even little gods.

Little gods? How about kings and priests,
10 and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'
Rev 5:10 (YLT)

 

[Conor B]

Beginning with Adam onwards it is obvious that man was created to worship the Creator. Nowhere does it indicate man should aspire to become a "god".

In fact to aspire to become "like God" was the basis for the original sin in the Garden of Eden.

 

[ldsfaqs]

Beginning with Adam onwards it is obvious that man was created to worship the Creator. Nowhere does it indicate man should aspire to become a "god".

In fact to aspire to become "like God" was the basis for the original sin in the Garden of Eden.

Actually, the scriptures are full of references on the matter.
Not only that, but your basis for the original sin example is actually one of them. In other words, it WAS NOT an original sin as you claim. You confuse satan saying something with being the same as everything he says as being a lie. Satan doesn't work that way, he uses some Truth to lie.

Satan's lie was that they would not die.... His truth was that they would be as the Gods. How do we know that? Because God says it a few verses later.

Genesis 3:
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
LIE

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
TRUTH

22 ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
GOD VERIFY'S SATAN'S TRUTH​

In conclusion.... You religions teach you false doctrine contrary to the scripture that one of satan's lies is that we would be as the Gods.

It is TRUTH that we are to be as the Gods. Christ himself also said it, several different ways.

 

[Seeking His Face]

I consider both Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I would probably consider joining either of them if not for all the vain traditions and doctrines of men that stifle the truth they both have.

 

[ldsfaqs]

I consider both Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I would probably consider joining either of them if not for all the vain traditions and doctrines of men that stifle the truth they both have.

If you actually came to know us, you might find that we don't have such problems. Everything we believe comes from scripture.

Like I just showed above..... Conor claimed mormons were believing a "doctrine of satan". I showed him from the scripture itself that our belief was not a doctrine of man, but was a doctrine of God.

 

[Seeking His Face]

If you actually came to know us, you might find that we don't have such problems. Everything we believe comes from scripture.

But that could be said for every single denomination and sect in the world today. The question is, why should I believe any one group's interpretation of the scriptures as being the only proper interpretation? I'm sure you are a Mormon for exactly the same reasons that other people are Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, and Pentecostals. So what exactly is it about Mormons' interpretations of the scriptures that should make me want to be a Mormon? Please understand I am not picking on Mormons in particular, but on every religious group that claims to have the absolute truth and the only correct understanding of the scriptures.

 

[fatboys]

But that could be said for every single denomination and sect in the world today. The question is, why should I believe any one group's interpretation of the scriptures as being the only proper interpretation? I'm sure you are a Mormon for exactly the same reasons that other people are Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, and Pentecostals. So what exactly is it about Mormons' interpretations of the scriptures that should make me want to be a Mormon? Please understand I am not picking on Mormons in particular, but on every religious group that claims to have the absolute truth and the only correct understanding of the scriptures.

If what we are saying is true, then God would give man some way of proving it to themselves that it is true. We teach that the Holy Ghost is the revealer of all truth, that is to ask the author of all truth which is God. He promises to tell us through the Holy Ghost personally to our souls. You don't have to take my word or anyone else's word. You have the right to know for yourself.

 

[Seeking His Face]

If what we are saying is true, then God would give man some way of proving it to themselves that it is true. We teach that the Holy Ghost is the revealer of all truth, that is to ask the author of all truth which is God. He promises to tell us through the Holy Ghost personally to our souls. You don't have to take my word or anyone else's word. You have the right to know for yourself.

Good answer.