What is the 6th commandment?

[mindlight]

I always thought it was Thou shalt not kill. But i have become aware that other people think it is the fifth which is honour your parents in my understanding.

Why are there 2 numbering schemes and who is right?

 

[ewq1938]

The Ten Commandments

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall not commit adultery.
8. Thou shall not steal††.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

 

[JackRT]

I always thought it was Thou shalt not kill. But i have become aware that other people think it is the fifth which is honour your parents in my understanding.

Why are there 2 numbering schemes and who is right?

There are three versions of the ten commandments in the Bible. Exodus 34 is the oldest version and is the only one self identify as "the ten commandments":

6th commandment

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

 

[ewq1938]

I can only find two appearances of all ten commandments, in Exo. And Due. Where is the third?

 

[JackRT]

I can only find two appearances of all ten commandments, in Exo. And Due. Where is the third?

Exodus 34:1-28 dates to about 950 BC
Exodus 20:1-17 dates to about 850 BC but was later modified around 560 BC
Deuteronomy 5:1-21 dates to about 625 BC

 

[ewq1938]

The ten commandments are not listed in Exo 34.

 

[JackRT]

The ten commandments are not listed in Exo 34.

Really?

Exodus 34 (NIV)

4 So Moses chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones and went up Mount Sinai early in the morning, as the Lord had commanded him; and he carried the two stone tablets in his hands. 5 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord. 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.” 8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 “Lord,” he said, “if I have found favor in your eyes, then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance.” 10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.

1st commandment

12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. 15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

2nd commandment

17 “Do not make any idols .

3rd commandment

18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

4th commandment

19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck.

5th commandment

Redeem all your firstborn sons. No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

6th commandment

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

7th commandment

22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.

8th commandment

25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

9th commandment

26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God .

10th commandment

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

 

[ewq1938]

Those are some commandments (more than 10 in that chapter) but not "the" ten commandments ie: do not kill is not there etc.

 

[JackRT]

Those are some commandments (more than 10 in that chapter) but not "the" ten commandments ie: do not kill is not there etc.

OK, the bible was wrong then when it says in the final sentence "And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."

 

[ewq1938]

How can the bible be wrong? The ten commandments were written on the new tablets but they are a different list of commandments than is found in that chapter. Some are the same, some are not.

So, the ten commandments are listed only twice in the bible. The bible lists other commandments in various places as well.

 

[JackRT]

How can the bible be wrong? The ten commandments were written on the new tablets but they are a different list of commandments than is found in that chapter. Some are the same, some are not.

So, the ten commandments are listed only twice in the bible. The bible lists other commandments in various places as well.

OK. To me that makes it quite clear that the Bible is a human document.

 

[ewq1938]

OK. To me that makes it quite clear that the Bible is a human document.

Not according to the bible.

“All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

[mindlight]

The Ten Commandments

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall not commit adultery.
8. Thou shall not steal††.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

Yes the Exodus 20:2-17 (Deut 5:6-21) version. This is the traditional understanding of the church and the clear view of scripture. So how on earth do people end up thinking "Thou shalt not murder" is the fifth commandment?

 

[mindlight]

There are three versions of the ten commandments in the Bible. Exodus 34 is the oldest version and is the only one self identify as "the ten commandments":

6th commandment

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

Right - whatever, not sure you understand the bible at all. Exodus 34 is a collection of commands that came with the 10 commandments stated elsewhere from a 40 day face to face encounter between Moses and God.

 

[mindlight]

Exodus 34:1-28 dates to about 950 BC
Exodus 20:1-17 dates to about 850 BC but was later modified around 560 BC
Deuteronomy 5:1-21 dates to about 625 BC

Moses wrote down most of the Pentateuch well before that. You should turn your unbelief against something worthy of such reservations like the Quran for instance. The bible is finished with liberals , they gave it their best shot and well its still there.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes the Exodus 20:2-17 (Deut 5:6-21) version. This is the traditional understanding of the church and the clear view of scripture. So how on earth do people end up thinking "Thou shalt not murder" is the fifth commandment?

Not sure, but it is 6th in both lists.

 

[JackRT]

Moses wrote down most of the Pentateuch well before that. You should turn your unbelief against something worthy of such reservations like the Quran for instance. The bible is finished with liberals , they gave it their best shot and well its still there.

You speak of unbelief. That is not my intention. What I seek is truth and finding it not as easy as some think.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Different traditions use variant numbering.

First commandment according to Talmud:
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

This is then combined with the next part by Reformed traditions following Calvin, making the First Commandment:
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Catholics following Augustine then add the next bit as well, making the first Commandment:
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.

The Orthodox and some Protestants, following the LXX then begin the Commandments with:
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

This makes 'Thou shalt not make unto you any graven image', the second commandment for Orthodoxy and Protestantism. But, this is already included in 1 by the Catholics, so 'you shall not take the Lord's name in vain' becomes number two and not three and all the other commandments' numbering is just moved down until the Catholics split 'thou shalt not covet your neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet your neighbour's wife' into two separate commandments, while the rest consider it one.

This makes the 6th commandment: 'thou shalt not kill' -to Orthodoxy and some Protestants, but 5th to Catholics who thus have Adultery as the 6th.

It gets more complicated as Killing is also the 5th to Lutherans as following Luther's numbering and ommision of 'graven image' prohibition from the list, it also moves the numbering down as it makes not taking the Lord's name in vain number two. Lutherans then also split coveting into multiple commandments to keep them ten, like the Catholics.

The Talmud makes 'no other gods' and 'graven image' together as number two and then combines all the coveting together for 10. This makes killing their 6th as well.

 

[JackRT]

It was a terrible oversight of God to have three versions and to omit a numbering scheme.

 

[amadeois]

What? Oversight by Yahweh.

Never.

He wants you to get to know Him by reading, understanding, comprehending and following what He inspired as His word, instructions to us.