What is SOUND DOCTRINE?

[Gregory Thompson]

You don't need that knowledge, if you seek GOD and HIS knowledge, HE will guide you to all HIS TRUTH, at any timeline of this creation this has been truth.

So then .. the key to it is that which surpasses knowledge . God and our relationship with Him . Truth is spoken in Love . Love indwells us . God is Love . Love surpasses Knowledge . But Jesus also illustrated being "The Truth" that so is The Truth .

 

[NatalieJan777]

So then .. the key to it is that which surpasses knowledge . God and our relationship with Him . Truth is spoken in Love . Love indwells us . God is Love . Love surpasses Knowledge . But Jesus also illustrated being "The Truth" that so is The Truth .

We are HIS students, why are we seeking knowledge from man when only GOD can teach us?

HE IS THE TEACHER and we are HIS STUDENTS:

Matthew 10:25 "It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!"

We are called to be LIKE HIM, not greater than HIM or equal to HIM. And it is possible to be like HIM and not equal to HIM, if we do what HE has asked us to do. Which is to follow HIM.

Ephesians 3:16-19 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Christ is to be the one that dwells in our hearts, it is through our faith in HIM that we hunger and thirst for more of HIS SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. It is because HE LOVED us first that we are able to LOVE and HONOR HIM back, and love all around us as well. It is HIS strength and knowledge we draw upon and not our own or what man has made up. IT IS ALL IN HIS WORD!

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

We are His children . He is our Father .

We are His workers . He is the land owner

He is the rabbi . we are the disciples

He is the king . we are co-heirs with Him as it is written . i don't try to understand it . i just read it as is .

I agree we cannot be greater than Him . but i think God is returning everything back to the paradigm where we are hierarchy blind and servant minded and hearted as He is .

 

[NatalieJan777]

but i think God is returning everything back to the paradigm where we are hierarchy blind and servant minded and hearted as He is .

I do not understand what you are saying, can you expound? Preferable with scripture, for I know it to be truth. Also since I am a bit illiterate to certain words/terms can you put it in layman terms? Talk like you would to a homeless person on the street, I know it would help me. Much appreciated, thanks!

 

[seekthelord]

< why then did GOD give us the Holy Spirit?>

To learn not to trust man's doctrine.

eg How many church people do not believe anyone need wash his sins away?
eg How many chuch people did not believe anyone need wash her sins away?

It is scripture that counts, not man's attempted interpretation that man does not need to do, because of mans logic what the apostles found to be essential.

seekthelord

 

[BethelArsonist]

HE has already told us that it is all too big for us to understand....

The Bible is full of contrasts and some might say contradictions. You have pointed one out here.

Jesus says the Holy Spirit would teach us "all things," but most Christians choose to believe what you have said here instead, which is also somewhat scriptural. This is just one example of the many contradictions that appear in scripture. But this is what makes the book so dynamic in application. This is why it can speak to man and to men no matter where they are and what their needs are. I choose to believe "all things" are to be known by man some day, through the Holy Spirit, and even that "all things" are possible with God. I realize these things are usually pretty unpopular. But this illustrates both of my points. One being that every new generation (of doctrine, that is, not homo Sapien) is created by the freedom that appears only in duress, for people to escape traditional pressures and return to walking with God in a new way.

My second point, is again, just as you have illustrated here, that you chose to side not with the words of Jesus on this topic, but with other scripture instead. This is consistent with the point of my first post, which was that Jesus is not the main leader of Christianity these days, Paul is. The other point, which I have not elaborated is that there is coming a time for this to change again, and that then people will much more quickly choose to side with Jesus again, instead of any other. That is what the time of Timothy (and a rise of a more Davidic doctrine) has to offer in the future.

.

 

[BethelArsonist]

It's as though most do not trust that God can accurately communicate to your average person ; or they're afraid that He actually will !

So most major groups attempt to secure their own particular doctrine or emphasis of Scripture , by telling people which verses to focus on and how to perceive what they are saying .

They offer " Bible Studies " which convey their own denominational distinctiveness . Rather than trusting that God's Spirit can lead and teach those who ask for and seek to know and understand The Truth .

If more individuals would sincerely pray and study Scripture for themself , then The Lord would speak to us and minister to us in a more intimate / individual manner , according to our unique need .

Then when gathered together , each member would have something personally from The Lord to share , and what we knew , we would know within ourself ... not from second hand assertions , or unconfirmed sources .

This is the way to empowerment , and failing this is why so many of us live unempowered ...

What a great quote. These are all the reasons we do not find sound doctrine in the church these days -- because church doctrine is not rooted in the understanding and inspiration of the individual. Instead it is rooted in the certain basics appointed by the hierarchy because they make for good congregation and good business economics.

Consider the time Jesus and his disciples were crossing over the water in a boat and Jesus was scolding them because they had no bread. He was reminding them about all the baskets of bread they had taken up from the multitudes on two occasions.

Then he says there should be nothing they do not already know because of that.

Pretty powerful words, I think.

.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I do not understand what you are saying, can you expound? Preferable with scripture, for I know it to be truth. Also since I am a bit illiterate to certain words/terms can you put it in layman terms? Talk like you would to a homeless person on the street, I know it would help me. Much appreciated, thanks!

In the creation . there was no hierarchy . it was not part of the mentality .

the mentality of God regarding it all was "in harmony it is very pleasing to me"

hierarchy began when Adam blamed the Woman who would later be named Eve and Eve Blamed the snake . Before that Man and Woman shared the same purpose and there was no need for individual names . individualism and the "it's your fault" mentality picked up during the fall was what lead to hierarchy .

Things like the forming of the nations, governments, family task structure, laws on how to treat others, and their property . is a redemptive activity of God speaking to the fallen nature in terms they can understand .

but hierarchy is not part of God's mindset . though technically . He's in charge if someone wants to make an issue of it

but When Jesus died on the cross this speaks back to Genesis . God wanting to say .. this is not about blame . just calm it down you guys . but the issue was so serious that in order to redeem the "infected creation" God needed to demonstrate the lesson later in History by giving the life of His only son . there is no blame . Love keeps no records of wrongs . but quite often .. we do . it is a big part of what Jesus came to save us from .

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

I am not a biblical scholar, but I know enough of the WORD of GOD to know when something is not sound, that which does not bring spiritual growth as GOD has intended.

Some of the references to these words 'Sound Doctrine' are a bit ambiguous and I am finding that a lot of scripture itself is such due to the number of ways one can interpret it.

For instance, if numbers and colors etc... are to be used to decipher biblical meaning, why then did GOD give us the Holy Spirit? Couldn't man then rely on their own ingenuity in deciphering scripture? I question this because I find that what some are calling 'x' cannot be called 'x' in every situation.

What exactly do you, the reader of this post think that Sound Doctrine means?

Below are the references I found to these words 'sound doctrine'.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me..

1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

Proverbs 4:1-2 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding. I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching.

Isaiah 55:10-11 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

I appreciate all input, hopefully discussion that will enlighten all and glorify GOD in the process.

Sound doctrine is a systematic theology which sees the Biblical text in the light in which is was written (poetic portions interpreted poetically, figurative portions interpreted figuratively) and is able to place these into a cohesive system that rightly divides the Scriptures into reconcilable all the way around.

For the "orthodox" (not the Orthodox church) doctrines there must be biblical and right THINKING AND PRACTICE concerning the person and work of Christ (called Christology) rooted in the cross and a sound concept of salvation by faith (called soteriology).

One MUST also distinguish between what is a PRIMARY matter (issues that there can be NO variance upon . . . like the deity of Christ) and what is SECONDARY (issues that do not require a particular view for salvation, but may require agreement in order to build a church) and even TERTIARY (issues that have variance even within a given local church body of believers) matters. There are, to be certian, one truth concerning these (IE either tongues are active or they are not) matters, so that there is a sound doctrine concerning them, but the variance of these matters does not threaten salvation.

 

[BethelArsonist]

Oh, very good. Sounds pretty sound to me.

Then just apply these principles in the national context, and you have the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

In the creation . there was no hierarchy . it was not part of the mentality .

the mentality of God regarding it all was "in harmony it is very pleasing to me"

hierarchy began when Adam blamed the Woman who would later be named Eve and Eve Blamed the snake . Before that Man and Woman shared the same purpose and there was no need for individual names . individualism and the "it's your fault" mentality picked up during the fall was what lead to hierarchy .

Things like the forming of the nations, governments, family task structure, laws on how to treat others, and their property . is a redemptive activity of God speaking to the fallen nature in terms they can understand .

but hierarchy is not part of God's mindset . though technically . He's in charge if someone wants to make an issue of it

but When Jesus died on the cross this speaks back to Genesis . God wanting to say .. this is not about blame . just calm it down you guys . but the issue was so serious that in order to redeem the "infected creation" God needed to demonstrate the lesson later in History by giving the life of His only son . there is no blame . Love keeps no records of wrongs . but quite often .. we do . it is a big part of what Jesus came to save us from .

In the creation . there was no hierarchy . it was not part of the mentality .

Hmm . . . actually there was . . . subdue the earth is a command of hierarchy, meaning that man is over the created order . . . and this is before chapter 2 which seems that you see as LATER than chpt 1.

but hierarchy is not part of God's mindset

Do u not believe in Trinity?

The Father is Father throughout all eternity, as is the Son and the Spirit . . . the "father vs son" concept is one of relationship IN AUTHORITY.

Also read:

1 Cor 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
NASU

Where we see that hierarchy will continue even after the final redemption and all falleness is dealt with and DONE.

 

[readywriter]

I am not a biblical scholar, but I know enough of the WORD of GOD to know when something is not sound, that which does not bring spiritual growth as GOD has intended.

Some of the references to these words 'Sound Doctrine' are a bit ambiguous and I am finding that a lot of scripture itself is such due to the number of ways one can interpret it.

For instance, if numbers and colors etc... are to be used to decipher biblical meaning, why then did GOD give us the Holy Spirit? Couldn't man then rely on their own ingenuity in deciphering scripture? I question this because I find that what some are calling 'x' cannot be called 'x' in every situation.

What exactly do you, the reader of this post think that Sound Doctrine means?

Below are the references I found to these words 'sound doctrine'.

Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me..

1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

Proverbs 4:1-2 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding. I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching.

Isaiah 55:10-11 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

I appreciate all input, hopefully discussion that will enlighten all and glorify GOD in the process.

Hi there Natalie,

I have gone back to your original entry in order to get back to your initial intention in starting this thread.

You have received an in-depth consideration of the words 'A form of sound words' from someone already, to which you responded with affirmation that you had already followed through on that line of study. So let's look at the context of the words themselves now and see what it brings forth.

(2Ti 1:12) For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
(2Ti 1:13) Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(2Ti 1:14) That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

This is the last epistle that Paul wrote. He wrote to Timothy, knowing that the end of his life and witness was coming to an end. Notice that in the verse in question he says, 'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me ... ' So these 'Sound Words' which you have brought forward for consideration, should be searched out in the ministry of Paul specifically.

His ministry is unique isn't it, in that he was separated by God as an apostle to the Gentiles, and it was to him that God entrusted a further deposit of truth which specifically applies to the life and witness of believers today. That witness is recorded in the epistles written from prison, where that further revelation was given him - Eph. Php. Col. 1&2 Tim. Tit. Phil.

This was a deposit of truth that Paul was entrusting to Timothy to guard and minister to those in his ministerial care. As a result of this further truth, many had left Paul, and he was feeling very alone at the time of writing this epistle. Timothy was the one on whom he laid the mantle of responsibility for the protection and furtherance of the ministry that he (Paul) had received from the Lord whilst in that prison cell.

This is the form of sound words being referred to I believe.

Readywriter

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmm . . . actually there was . . . subdue the earth is a command of hierarchy, meaning that man is over the created order . . . and this is before chapter 2 which seems that you see as LATER than chpt 1.

Ah yes . but . the word subdue may not be the best translation . as it is written of the beast in revelation and daniel that it is this thing that devours the earth . so "subdue" may be the beast's interpretation of that verse . but considering the world was unfallen at that time . subdue would seem unnecessary as covetousness did not exist and neither did natural disasters . there was no need to "subdue" anything just perhaps .. explore and admire . and be caretakers or curators of .

Do u not believe in Trinity?

I experience the trinity daily in communion with Him and in relationship with other images and likenesses .

The Father is Father throughout all eternity, as is the Son and the Spirit . . . the "father vs son" concept is one of relationship IN AUTHORITY.

Also read:

1 Cor 15:28
28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
NASU

Where we see that hierarchy will continue even after the final redemption and all falleness is dealt with and DONE.

Hmm so if all this mumbo jah is about subjecting the fallen creation and all its iniquity (or inequality) to God so God may be everything in all things .. then it still points to God meeting us where we are at . and taking us to a paradigm that is His .

What did Jesus say about who would be greatest among us?

so it will be in the restoration of all things .

when you're serving people and think in a framework of serving people out of love and have no covetous desire to be better than anyone else but "esteem others as better than yourselves" then there is no concept of hierarchy . it's just another consequence of the fallen nature . we see things that way so the scripture addresses it . but God is into other stuff . far and way above our thoughts . and that is the direction the scripture points . if your eyes have been enabled to see . and ears enabled to hear .

 

[NatalieJan777]

The Bible is full of contrasts and some might say contradictions. You have pointed one out here.

Jesus says the Holy Spirit would teach us "all things," but most Christians choose to believe what you have said here instead, which is also somewhat scriptural. This is just one example of the many contradictions that appear in scripture. But this is what makes the book so dynamic in application. This is why it can speak to man and to men no matter where they are and what their needs are. I choose to believe "all things" are to be known by man some day, through the Holy Spirit, and even that "all things" are possible with God. I realize these things are usually pretty unpopular. But this illustrates both of my points. One being that every new generation (of doctrine, that is, not homo Sapien) is created by the freedom that appears only in duress, for people to escape traditional pressures and return to walking with God in a new way.

My second point, is again, just as you have illustrated here, that you chose to side not with the words of Jesus on this topic, but with other scripture instead. This is consistent with the point of my first post, which was that Jesus is not the main leader of Christianity these days, Paul is. The other point, which I have not elaborated is that there is coming a time for this to change again, and that then people will much more quickly choose to side with Jesus again, instead of any other. That is what the time of Timothy (and a rise of a more Davidic doctrine) has to offer in the future.

.

My point being we will never have full knowledge as our CREATOR has full knowledge.

Jesus is the WORD of GOD, everything in the BIBLE has to do with HIM and HIS FIRST and/or SECOND COMING. I do not understand what you say when you say 'side with Jesus'. Paul is not Christ Jesus nor will he ever be. And this 'main leader' as you call him would roll over in his grave if he knew what twisting of his words was going on even still today.

2 Peter 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

They don't understand them because they are illiterate to the rest of scripture, if they understood GOD's Purpose which is to draw men closer to HIS light/truth, which Jesus (Word of God) has always been GOD's light/truth of men, they would better understand Paul's writings.

Davidic doctrine? I have done an indepth study of the life of King David. His life if studied by Christians would make it clear of what pleases GOD. But many won't study it, to them the Old Testament expired when Christ rose from the dead.

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

We are talking about a man who ran from Saul a huge portion of his time here on earth. The same man after Sauls death, took in Saul's handicapped son into his dwelling and provided for him. This unconditional love for your neighbor is no different then what Christ Jesus taught. David's life as written in scripture is a remarkable display of what pleases GOD. David did not have his own doctrine, he abided by the doctrine of Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus was his Lord.

Psalm 110:1 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

 

[NatalieJan777]

In the creation . there was no hierarchy . it was not part of the mentality .

the mentality of God regarding it all was "in harmony it is very pleasing to me"

hierarchy began when Adam blamed the Woman who would later be named Eve and Eve Blamed the snake . Before that Man and Woman shared the same purpose and there was no need for individual names . individualism and the "it's your fault" mentality picked up during the fall was what lead to hierarchy .

Things like the forming of the nations, governments, family task structure, laws on how to treat others, and their property . is a redemptive activity of God speaking to the fallen nature in terms they can understand .

but hierarchy is not part of God's mindset . though technically . He's in charge if someone wants to make an issue of it

but When Jesus died on the cross this speaks back to Genesis . God wanting to say .. this is not about blame . just calm it down you guys . but the issue was so serious that in order to redeem the "infected creation" God needed to demonstrate the lesson later in History by giving the life of His only son . there is no blame . Love keeps no records of wrongs . but quite often .. we do . it is a big part of what Jesus came to save us from .

Thank you for expounding, I will weigh these words heavily in the coming week bringing them before GOD and may respond again if the Lord leads me to.

I do not see the 'blame' issue in old testament the way that you do, I see the 'guilt' issue and that is what was taken with Christ. He clears our consciences of guilt as we seek our Heavenly Fathers forgiveness.

Satan was the deciever here by telling man that they would surely not die if they eat of the fruit. Man had to bear the consequences of their wrong doing then, and they still do because we honestly do reap what we sow. Christ Jesus has made it possible for all to be reunited with our Heavenly Father in truth/light, if we know and believe Christ Jesus. But if we do not know HIS TRUTH, we cannot truly believe in HIM.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Sound doctrine is a systematic theology which sees the Biblical text in the light in which is was written (poetic portions interpreted poetically, figurative portions interpreted figuratively) and is able to place these into a cohesive system that rightly divides the Scriptures into reconcilable all the way around.

For the "orthodox" (not the Orthodox church) doctrines there must be biblical and right THINKING AND PRACTICE concerning the person and work of Christ (called Christology) rooted in the cross and a sound concept of salvation by faith (called soteriology).

One MUST also distinguish between what is a PRIMARY matter (issues that there can be NO variance upon . . . like the deity of Christ) and what is SECONDARY (issues that do not require a particular view for salvation, but may require agreement in order to build a church) and even TERTIARY (issues that have variance even within a given local church body of believers) matters. There are, to be certian, one truth concerning these (IE either tongues are active or they are not) matters, so that there is a sound doctrine concerning them, but the variance of these matters does not threaten salvation.

Thank You! For this explaination, but where is the Holy Spirit in all this? If we are all being lead by one Spirit, would we not all become one and in agreement to all true doctrine?

John 17:20-21 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

The world does not believe because of our divisions, and those divisions are manmade and not scriptural or spiritual.

Acts 5:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.

 

[BethelArsonist]

Davidic doctrine? I have done an indepth study of the life of King David. His life if studied by Christians would make it clear of what pleases GOD. But many won't study it, to them the Old Testament expired when Christ rose from the dead.

1 Kings 15:5 For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD's commands all the days of his life--except in the case of Uriah the Hittite.

We are talking about a man who ran from Saul a huge portion of his time here on earth. The same man after Sauls death, took in Saul's handicapped son into his dwelling and provided for him. This unconditional love for your neighbor is no different then what Christ Jesus taught. David's life as written in scripture is a remarkable display of what pleases GOD. David did not have his own doctrine, he abided by the doctrine of Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus was his Lord.

Psalm 110:1 Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

You just elaborated the doctrine of David and then said it doesn't exist.
But you have agreed with me that it is more Christ-centered than what is practices today. That was my point too.

Concerning Paul, you are right again to point out what Peter said. So you agree with me again, but why would he roll over in his grave about that? He made no mistake either in intent nor in application. His purposes have always worked as they are supposed to.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Hi there Natalie,

I have gone back to your original entry in order to get back to your initial intention in starting this thread.

You have received an in-depth consideration of the words 'A form of sound words' from someone already, to which you responded with affirmation that you had already followed through on that line of study. So let's look at the context of the words themselves now and see what it brings forth.

(2Ti 1:12) For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
(2Ti 1:13) Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(2Ti 1:14) That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

This is the last epistle that Paul wrote. He wrote to Timothy, knowing that the end of his life and witness was coming to an end. Notice that in the verse in question he says, 'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me ... ' So these 'Sound Words' which you have brought forward for consideration, should be searched out in the ministry of Paul specifically.

His ministry is unique isn't it, in that he was separated by God as an apostle to the Gentiles, and it was to him that God entrusted a further deposit of truth which specifically applies to the life and witness of believers today. That witness is recorded in the epistles written from prison, where that further revelation was given him - Eph. Php. Col. 1&2 Tim. Tit. Phil.

This was a deposit of truth that Paul was entrusting to Timothy to guard and minister to those in his ministerial care. As a result of this further truth, many had left Paul, and he was feeling very alone at the time of writing this epistle. Timothy was the one on whom he laid the mantle of responsibility for the protection and furtherance of the ministry that he (Paul) had received from the Lord whilst in that prison cell.

This is the form of sound words being referred to I believe.

Readywriter

Interesting, and I would have thought it would have been Pauls words:

' For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day'

2 Timothy 1:5 I have been reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.

Paul's ministry is/was unique, it was a difficult task he set out to do as a Jew in ministering to the Gentile's, yet I believe that the missinterpretations of much of what he says has divided the Church of Christ and not united all Christian's both Jew and Gentile as GOD has intended.

There is only one GOD and we are all being drawn to HIM, just as there is only one Truth and we should all be in persuit of this same Truth. I don't believe that the lack of unity has to do with GOD, I believe it has to do with man putting his wants and desires above that of GOD's WILL.

 

[NatalieJan777]

You just elaborated the doctrine of David and then said it doesn't exist.
But you have agreed with me that it is more Christ-centered than what is practices today. That was my point too.

Concerning Paul, you are right again to point out what Peter said. So you agree with me again, but why would he roll over in his grave about that? He made no mistake either in intent nor in application. His purposes have always worked as they are supposed to.

I did not say it didn't exist, I said it was the doctrine of Christ Jesus and not the Davidic Doctrine which to me is a man made term.

Perhaps you are correct on your second paragraph. Perhaps the division is meant by GOD? I know that by Pauls own words that the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles to bring the Jews to jealousy so that they would see the error of their ways of performing the duties of the law out of ritual obedient tasks and not out of true love that comes by faith. I just know that much of what Paul had written has not changed the lives of all that he wished for it to change. Thus the comment I made.

 

[NatalieJan777]

< why then did GOD give us the Holy Spirit?>

To learn not to trust man's doctrine.

seekthelord

AMEN!