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What is SOUND DOCTRINE?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by NatalieJan777, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    I am not a biblical scholar, but I know enough of the WORD of GOD to know when something is not sound, that which does not bring spiritual growth as GOD has intended.

    Some of the references to these words 'Sound Doctrine' are a bit ambiguous and I am finding that a lot of scripture itself is such due to the number of ways one can interpret it.

    For instance, if numbers and colors etc... are to be used to decipher biblical meaning, why then did GOD give us the Holy Spirit? Couldn't man then rely on their own ingenuity in deciphering scripture? I question this because I find that what some are calling 'x' cannot be called 'x' in every situation.

    What exactly do you, the reader of this post think that Sound Doctrine means?

    Below are the references I found to these words 'sound doctrine'.

    Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

    Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

    2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    1 Timothy 1:9-11 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me..

    1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

    Proverbs 4:1-2 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction; pay attention and gain understanding. I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching.

    Isaiah 55:10-11 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

    I appreciate all input, hopefully discussion that will enlighten all and glorify GOD in the process.
     
  2. wayfaring man

    wayfaring man Veteran

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    Hi NJ ,

    Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed. <-----> Psalm 119:80

    sound -

    H8549
    &#1514;&#1468;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501;
    ta&#770;mi&#770;ym
    taw-meem'
    From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ...Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. <-----> Matthew + Luke 4:4

    For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. <-----> Acts 20:27
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    He lays up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. <-----> Proverbs 2:7

    sound wisdom -

    H8454
    &#1514;&#1468;&#1513;&#1473;&#1497;&#1468;&#1492; &#1514;&#1468;&#1493;&#1468;&#1513;&#1473;&#1497;&#1468;&#1492;
    tu&#770;shi&#770;ya&#770;h tu&#770;shi&#770;ya&#770;h
    too-shee-yaw', too-shee-yaw'
    From an unused root probably meaning to substantiate; support or (by implication) ability, that is, (direct) help, (in purpose) an undertaking, (intellectual) understanding: - enterprise, that which (thing as it) is, substance, (sound) wisdom, working.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. <-----> Acts 17:11

    But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; <-----> 2nd Timothy 3:14

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. <-----> 2nd Timothy 1:13

    sound -

    G5198
    &#965;&#788;&#947;&#953;&#945;&#953;&#769;&#957;&#969;
    hugiaino&#772;
    hoog-ee-ah'ee-no
    From G5199; to have sound health, that is, be well (in body); figuratively to be incorrupt (true in doctrine): - be in health, (be safe and) sound, (be) whole (-some).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. <-----> John 7:16

    And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. <-----> Luke 4:32

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ...Speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: <-----> Titus 2:1

    doctrine -

    G1319
    &#948;&#953;&#948;&#945;&#963;&#954;&#945;&#955;&#953;&#769;&#945;
    didaskalia
    did-as-kal-ee'-ah
    From G1320; instruction (the function or the information): - doctrine, learning,
    teaching.

    G1320 -
    &#948;&#953;&#948;&#945;&#769;&#963;&#954;&#945;&#955;&#959;&#962;
    didaskalos
    did-as'-kal-os
    From G1321; an instructor (generally or specifically): - doctor, master, teacher.

    G1321 -
    &#948;&#953;&#948;&#945;&#769;&#963;&#954;&#969;
    didasko&#772;
    did-as'-ko
    A prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb &#948;&#945;&#769;&#969; dao&#772; (to learn); to teach (in the same broad application): - teach.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. <-----> John 16:13

    ...The anointing which ye have received of him abides in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. <-----> 1st John 2:27

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
    Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
    Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
    Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
    For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men,
    Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
    Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
    Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
    <-----> Titus 2:7-14

    May The Will of The Lord Be Done - To The Glory of God ! Amen .

    wm
     
  3. judah israel

    judah israel Junior Member

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    Sound doctine are things that can be proven out of the bible by the bible. Sound doctrine is the word of God proven out by the word of God. So doctrine is what "thus saith the Lord" and not the traditions of man. That's why God had it written, (1Thes.5:21) Prove all things; (2Tim:4:5) "make full proof of thy ministry."

    Peace
     
  4. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    AMEN! And thank you, I also did a study on all those words through e-sword and drew the same conclusions.

    After reading your imput the following scripture came to mind:

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    2 Timothy 2:19-21 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

    Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
     
  5. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    I would tend to disagree with this. Not just for the sake of disagreement but I know that if ones can twist one part of scripture that they are able to twist another to fit what they want to believe.

    For me personally, I know that the doctrin is sound if the Holy Spirit confirms its truth to me.
     
  6. judah israel

    judah israel Junior Member

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    And the Holy spirit does that by way of the scriptures.

    Peace
     
  7. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    Not always, many times it has been confirmed to me through circumstance as well as through others.

    PS - That doesn't mean it is not somewhere else in scripture, it just means the confirmation has come in a different way. I do not need to be reading scripture for the Holy Spirit to confirm a truth is all I am saying.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    Back when there was one church Sound doctrine . was what "sounded" good to those who the apostles appointed to leadership

    now that the church is divided into many fragments it's very subjective . and quite often is "what sounds good to me"

    the idea of sound doctrine is based on the premise of God's love .

    and when everyone in the faith comes from that same premise .

    then the idea of sound doctrine can be examined in a fashion that does not resemble itching ear syndrome . or so i have so heard it called .

    hope you find what you're looking for deep in your heart in asking this question .

    Love bless .
     
  9. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    Thank you Michael for the hope =)

    You said that back in the early church it was "what sounded good", how do you know this?
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    (Anytime NatalieJan :) )

    This is trusting that the discipleship process at least for the apostle generation was done according the great commission . the pastoral epistles seemed to indicate that only trustworthy people were chosen for the task of shepherding God's flock . and the resonance of this still exists from the schisms of the early church denoms . It is based on key doctrinal points .. and anything that was established as not true in the past cannot be true now .. etc etc . So it's one part the beginning, one part scriptural evidence and one part examining the remnant of the first churches and their behaviors toward what they call sound doctrine and what isn't .

    that's how i reason it out . i guess i could do an indepth study . but not feeling lead to at the moment .
     
  11. stelow

    stelow Legend

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    :thumbsup:
     
  12. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    I know from the past that we are on different wave lengths many times, not that either of us is wrong or incorrect, we are just different. But I do have further questions and I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think I was going to learn something so I appreciate you showing me what it is you've come to understand what Sound Doctrin really is.

    What do you mean by the beginning?

    Does scriptural evidence to you mean both old and new testaments?

    How exactly does one examin the remnant of the first church? Would not the remnant be those who still remain today? And how would you know where to find this remnant so that you could eximin it?
     
  13. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    Pentecost, Antioch . the beginning of the kingdom of God .

    The idea of "it sounding correct" did not work in the Old Testament . What "sounded good" ended up placing them in exile .

    in the new covenant being regenerated and infilled by the Holy Spirit .. there were things one could only know by experiencing them . which is why we pray for insight before we read the scriptures .

    to be imparted spiritual gifts and wisdom hands were laid on the disciples of the disciples . and when the spiritual manifestations seemed to cease . it became about what sounded correct to the various teachers descendant of the Disciples of Christ .

    an example is in the John letter that talks about people who say Jesus did not come in the flesh .. and says .. well these people must be wrong .

    and in 1st corinthians 15 .. there must be a resurrection .. because

    and hotly disputed Galatians which says it is not about the law .. but about grace .. and concludes with expounding on the new creation we are becoming which surpasses the expression of the old covenant .

    because the disciples of the disciples' disciples .. had no concept of a closed canon . they just kept writing and teaching as the Holy Spirit taught them . and whatever sounded right .. was sound doctrine .

    for example .. in the 200s a group of people decided to go back to the original apostolic formula from Acts "in the name of Jesus" and the church using the Matthew baptism formula said .. well it's in the scripture but it's not right .. so thus . sound doctrine is what sounds right . but this inevitably became so inaccessible to the grassroots people Jesus would have hung out with that all this stuff that may or may not have been correct .. (who knows? it caused division so not a good sign) so people just decided to just start all over again . and as protestant flows into emergent .. we see some interesting symptoms all over again .

    i just meant the Orthodox and Catholic tendencies to interpret the bible a certain way . it may not make sense to us today for any number of factors . but certain things remain consistent among them . so regardless of canonical correctness .. there seems to have been a line of discipleship from the beginning to where they were . the importance of this factor is evidenced by the fact that this form of reasoning (this guy .. taught by this guy .. taught by this guy who was taught by Apostle .. ) is still used among them to this day .
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  14. wayfaring man

    wayfaring man Veteran

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    Hi again ,

    Glad to see a goodly measure of agreeableness flowing across the board.

    What came to mind after reading your reply was the following verse -

    For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. <-----> 1st Corinthians 11:9

    [ It often helps in distinguishing - to define the antonyms as well as the synonyms ]

    heresies -

    G139
    &#945;&#953;&#788;&#769;&#961;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962;
    hairesis
    hah'ee-res-is
    From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (&#8220;heresy&#8221; is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekword itself], sect.

    G138 -
    &#945;&#953;&#788;&#961;&#949;&#769;&#959;&#956;&#945;&#953;
    aihreomai
    hahee-reh'-om-ahee
    Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate (&#949;&#788;&#769;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#956;&#945;&#953; hellomai), which is otherwise obsolete: - choose. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai, hel-lom-ahee; which is otherwise obsolete.


    [ Also , there usually is (potentially) a positive and a negative application for most every word , phrase , concept , meaning .]

    As when the hypocritically religious declare their wrath against " heretics ".

    They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time comes, that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service. <-----> John 16:2

    And the hypocritically religious aren't exclusively made up of unbelieving Jews !

    Many claiming to have an association with Christ have done abominable things .

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Army of None

    Truly miraculous
    then it surely be ,
    if under this precept
    we share lovingly !

    Even if you say it's cold
    And I say it's hot
    What really matters
    Is that we bicker not !

    For with differing perspectives
    We can yet behold heaven
    As long as The Golden Rule
    Be neither broken nor forsaken .

    But if we feud inconsolably
    As fire that cannot be quenched
    Then comes the wailing
    Then comes the stench !

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do all things without murmurings and disputing:
    That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
    <-----> Philippians 2:14+15

    May God Be Pleased !

    wm
     
  15. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    It's a choice . calling something a heresy is similar to when people who believe something else . say . "oh you choose to believe that, but it doesn't make it so"

    that's all heresy means . and until there is one organization bound together in the Love of Christ again . the word heresy is meaningless .
     
  16. NatalieJan777

    NatalieJan777 Humbled before GOD

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    Michael,

    I still can't say that I understand what you are saying.

    The beginning to me means the beginning of time. The kingdom of GOD has always existed in my mind.

    Psalm 45:6 Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

    HIS Righteousness will again reign:

    John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    The Jews could not hope in what yet had not been revealed. They too had faith in what was not seen, just as we who were not witness to CHRIST's dwelling here. That doesn't mean GOD's Kingdom didn't exist before CHRIST's coming. It is only by HIS coming that we now have a renewed hope of the realization of HIS coming RIGHTEOUS KINGDOM.

    Ephesians 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory. For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

    I don't understand this "whatever sounds good" idea because I know in my heart we are to follow Christ Jesus faithfully and obediently, doing all HE asks us to. Herein is how we prove our faithfulness to HIM and not to "whatever sounds good".

    Matthew 28:19-20 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    In that case then . Sound doctrine is the teaching of the safest bet .

    I was illustrating that because important elements of the Apostolic teachings were lost in the schisms . we need to ask God to grow these essences within us . for our teaching to be "sound" . because the original church failed and is plagued with the blotch of division . then all must begin from the beginning which is love .

    the essences of unity, love, and peace amongst one another . the knowledge is only a shell .

    Ephesians and 1 Corinthians 13 illustrates that Love surpasses knowledge

    and Philippians illustrates that .. the Peace that comes from God surpasses the need for understanding . so i think sound doctrine is much deeper than just words . but the heart that speaks them .
     
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  18. wayfaring man

    wayfaring man Veteran

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    G139
    &#945;&#953;&#788;&#769;&#961;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962;
    hairesis
    hah'ee-res-is
    From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (&#8220;heresy&#8221; is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greek word itself], sect.


    Taken into context with the whole definition , the word translated "heresy" / "heresies" , means - "a choice" which causes "disunion" into separate "parties" or "sects".

    The word itself is potentially no more meaningless than any other word , which can be applied with exceedingly varying degrees of purity and veracity .

    The word heresies is found three times in The New Testament , and it's mentioning is in the context of addressing one of the negative things we who are yet seeking perfect unity in Christ need to beware of , and be on guard against .

    Wherefore , the word does indeed have a valid application , in the here and now - while we have yet to enter into perfect unity ... However , once we have been perfectly joined together , at that time , the concept of heresies , ( as that which may hinder or prevent a perfect union ) will become essentially irrelevant .

    Whoso keeps the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerns both time and judgment. <-----> Ecclesiastes 8:5

    A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; <-----> Titus 3:10

    May The Lord Be Pleased to Confirm and Uphold The Truth of His Word !

    wm
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  19. stelow

    stelow Legend

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    Michael, thank you so much, for Holy Spirit inspired answers.
     
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  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Compassion is the basis of the teachings . Supporter

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    :) Thank you Steve for the encouragement . :)

    What i would say regarding this is similar . there are now many sects . and many opinions . calling anything heresy seems about as subjective as media bias . but ..

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7462795-2/#post54621534
     
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