What is Messianic Judaism

[Hieronymus]

Why aren't MJ's Christians?

 

[Truthfrees]

Why aren't MJ's Christians?

Messianic means Messiah!

We believe Yeshua (Jesus) is Messiah (Christ)!

We also accept the entire Bible (Genesis-Revelation)!

In 326 AD Constantine made and enforced edicts that eliminated the Jewish roots of Yeshua Messiah.

MJs model Yeshua and His Torah lifestyle and mindset as per the writers of the Bible (Genesis-Revelation).

So it's largely semantics, but does include a Torah lifestyle that is generally unknown to most other Christian denominations.

 

[Hieronymus]

So basically it's the J in MJ that separates us?

 

[Truthfrees]

So basically it's the J in MJ that separates us?

We're not really separated, because we're all saved by grace through faith in one God and His Messiah/Son.

But it does explain why we MJs love Torah and see it as the grace of God, and a blessed and joyous lifestyle.

 

[visionary]

Why aren't MJ's Christians?

Christians = Faith in Christ
Messianics = Faith in Yeshua

Is that not the same thing?

 

[Hieronymus]

Christians = Faith in Christ
Messianics = Faith in Yeshua

Is that not the same thing?

I would think so too, yes...

 

[Lulav]

I would think so too, yes...

Hi Heironymus

Yes, we are under the 'Christian umbrella' so to speak but we are more pre Constantine era Christianity.

 

[Hieronymus]

Hi Heironymus

Yes, we are under the 'Christian umbrella' so to speak but we are more pre Constantine era Christianity.

I think i am too, actually..

 

[Hieronymus]

I thought it was more like a Jewish pride thing, but i'm not too happy with certain umbrella's either, so i think i understand, especially in light of religious, racial and political problems in history...
...and present perhaps...

Weary of controversies...

 

[Dave-W]

Why aren't MJ's Christians?

One of the primary functions of the MJ movement is outreach (not just evangelism but includes that) into the local and greater Jewish communities we find ourselves in. In those communities the words "christ" and "christian" have a lot of historical baggage including the Crusades, pogroms and the WW2 holocaust. That fact is a strong impediment to outreach. Messiah and Messianic have much less as most observant and religious Jews are looking for the Messiah.

 

[Hieronymus]

One of the primary functions of the MJ movement is outreach (not just evangelism but includes that) into the local and greater Jewish communities we find ourselves in. In those communities the words "christ" and "christian" have a lot of historical baggage including the Crusades, pogroms and the WW2 holocaust. That fact is a strong impediment to outreach. Messiah and Messianic have much less as most observant and religious Jews are looking for the Messiah.

Much of that was my conclusion yesterday also.
But in my perspective you have a similar problem, like Zionism and Talmudism and or Kaballism, but that's more hidden / unknown, but very much part of Judaism..

 

[Dave-W]

But in my perspective you have a similar problem, like Zionism and Talmudism and or Kaballism,

Those are 3 very different things.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Hieronymus]

i think they can go hand in hand pretty well..

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Christian means you follow the creeds of the christian religion in which the "Jesus Christ" that Paul spoke of is the central figure and usually also divine. Often, no or few tenets of Judaism, commandments, feast days or torah laws of the Hebrew Bible (Torah and Tanakh aka Old Testament) are followed, as the Old Testament is viewed as nothing more than a historical document full of stories that are true historically but the instruction is no longer relevant.

Messianic Judaism takes many forms, but, in the simplest way possible, it can be either Jews who also believe in Yeshua (the true name of Jesus) as messiah, or gentiles who understand that Yeshua was the Jewish messiah and that the importance of the Torah laws and feasts never became irrelevant.
Subsects of MJism are usually separated by different levels of acceptance of Christianity's views (trinity, divinity of Yeshua, christian feasts and holidays, etc), an acceptance of Paul through a pro-torah filter (Paul-gnostic Messianic Judaism is the most common, Paul-rejecting Messianic Judaism is less common), an acceptance or rejection of Rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism (IE accepting the Talmud, the Kippah, the harsher/stricter sabbatical laws that are found in the Talmud, etc), whether or not they try to apply conspiracy theory related, Hebrew language or sacred name related Gnosticism to the faith etc...

Not only are Christianity and Messianic Judaism totally different, but the subsects are as different to eachother as, say, Mormonism is different to Catholicism, is different to Jehovah's Witnesses, is different to Baptists etc etc.

By applying such labels, I myself would be labelled as a Paul-rejecting Messianic Jew who ONLY follows Torah, the Tanakh (collectively, the old testament) and the Gospel of Matthew and the letter of James.I also believe that there is truth to some of the books found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the Book of Enoch.
I do not consider Yeshua a divine being, a sacrifice for sin/a replacement for Torah obedience and repentance of transgression, I do not accept the Pauline/Christian understanding of the "Holy Spirit" as a being or avatar of the Creator, but, as it literally says in Hebrew - the Ruach HaKodesh, the Breath (of life/of being set apart/of being sanctified/of our Creator) which may at times refer to the soul or non-physical essence of man, represented y our literal life, and at times refer to direct inspiration from our Creator, as are the clear meanings of Holy Spirit in the Tanakh.
That said, I do not really consider myself that, I don't like such labeling, I prefer to consider myself an Israelite.

I hope this helps (and that no one responds in any way so as to begin a debate or argument lol - though I am happy to answer any questions that only require a simple or short response as I am currently very sleep deprived).

 

[Shimshon]

One of the primary functions of the MJ movement is outreach (not just evangelism but includes that) into the local and greater Jewish communities we find ourselves in. In those communities the words "christ" and "christian" have a lot of historical baggage including the Crusades, pogroms and the WW2 holocaust. That fact is a strong impediment to outreach. Messiah and Messianic have much less as most observant and religious Jews are looking for the Messiah.

AND since only about 10% of Jews affiliate as 'observant/religious' I wonder what 'outreach' is being sought to engage the other 75%? If one won't focus on the Torah given Moses how will you witness Messiah to them? Considering the Messianic faith (mainly the one law) believes without Torah one can not find Yeshua because He is Torah. Or as otherwise said, to follow Messiah is to follow Torah. So your mission is to get non-orthodox Jews and Gentiles to follow Torah so they can follow Messiah? Yet, as JCPA states only 10% of Jews are interested in following it 'religiously'. I think this begets the enormous long existing struggle between orthodox and non-orthodox Jews. It also reaffirms my perception of the ignorance of many self made Messianics who only see the world through newly learned orthodox eyes. One will never reach Jews by trying to out-Jew them. Even if Messiah was the most Jewish person ever alive it won't work if you try to act like him. Because it's Him we need to see and meet, not a persons observance to Torah.

Why aren't MJ's Christians?

You don't believe there are Jewish Christians?

 

[visionary]

Why wouldn't you think of MJ as Christian?

 

[rockytopva]

I posted the seven churches back in December 2013 as such....

Ephesus - Apostolic
Smyrna - Martyr
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

It was in my mind that the first church died away with the Apostles. From spending the last few years here on the CF my views of the seven churches has changed into...

Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was leader of this the first church... Which was Jewish
Smyrna - Gentile - The Apostle Paul was leader of the Gentile church. Foxes has ten Roman persecutions.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) , and they unto the circumcision (Jewish).
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? - Galatians 2

Do you see the difference in the two churches? It is almost in all seven churches that the differences are so great that they are not compatible with one another. It is also amazing to me of the plight of the Messianic church and how it is scattered. And I cannot help but to wonder if they will not reform into the first church from which they sprang.

Comparing the seven churches also shows the uniqueness of the first church. In that to this day there are Messianic churches that bare the name 'Non-Pauline,' and as the apostle Paul was the gentile Apostle, I find no fault in them doing.

I am glad that I found the lost church, which I come to find was the first church, or the Messianic. I am also glad to find that this first church also blends in well here on the CF. To all the Messianic here I wish love and blessings, from God the Heavenly Father through the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hieronymus]

Why wouldn't you think of MJ as Christian?

I thought they didn't think of themselves as Christians.

 

[Dave-W]

Considering the Messianic faith (mainly the one law) believes without Torah one can not find Yeshua because He is Torah.

While the "one law" group is aptly represented on this forum, they are NOT the majority of Messianic Judaism. It is NOT the position of the UMJC, The MJAA, Tikkun or Chosen People.

First Fruits of Zion used to be "one law." When they left that doctrinal stance several years ago, Boaz Michael was afraid they would lose all their support. And they did lose a lot of their subscribers and customers. And then they gained back about 10x what they lost a year or so later.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I know when speaking to Rabbinic Jews, they are more willing to speak with me if I tell them I am Orthodox. Many tell me they would not speak to me if I was one of those "messianics" and that they do not like the "messianic missionaries".