What is/are the basic, simple principles, single premise, that we can all agree on?

[Neogaia777]

Ye must be born again. This is the prerequisite, without this we are none of His.

Being "born again" first means dying to self right?

I told my ex-wife about in the way that I Loved her, and she still didn't care, anyways I explained to her that, "I laid myself down for you, all for you, I set aside my my pride, my ego, my sense of self, my identity, everything all for you, all to try and help your deeply troubled, poor beaten down and broken, abused soul, and endured all your malicious, vile,violent and abusive treatment (of me) and forgave you daily and never held any of it against you...

Everytime I spoke to you I searched the deepest part of myself to find ways to right words to "help" you (to edify you, to build you, to try and get you out of your misery and suffering that was causing you to act in such a way, In fact I exerted myself so much doing this that it exhausted me and drained my soul to the point of feeling dead (Is this what it means to die to self) Anyways, then I told her, If that's not Love then I don't know what is, Because she was questioning my Love for her because I think she was searching for an emotional response.

But I ask you about Love, "Is Love an emotion or an act?" In one popular Star Trek episode Data was asked if he had ever experienced Love, and he answered "the act or the emotion?" And the Guy responded to Data, "there the same thing.' To which Data replied "I do not believe that to be true sir." To which the man responded "maybe?" then their conversation went somewhere else.

Anyways my point being my ex-wife was a highly emotional, and was knowing the emotion of Love, roller coaster, and I was like rock, or she was like fire, and I was like Ice, or it was like she depended highly on her emotions and instincts, feelings and intuitions, whereas I was depending on logic and reason and senseability, and the "acts" (actions) of Love, she was the emotion. I relied on my head, whereas she trusted her heart, needless to say it was very hard for us to see eye to eye.

But I ask you all, in your opinions is "agape" love, the act, or the emotion?

I think I laid myself down to the point of death out of Love for my wife, (and I was doing it for myself and Christ too) Because I was trying to follow in his footsteps, his example and teachings about Love, but I have never been a highly emotional person and sometimes I wonder about myself if I can ever really even truly love at all (except through actions) But I miss the emotion, the feeling of Love, and I long for it, but I don't trust my own heart sometimes, feeling it, means the positive and negative, and I don't want to use the negative with people and hurt them, what do I do?

 

[Sayre]

Might as well throw out all my commentaries on scriptures since they add to it. Sigh

Nah, don't throw them out. We are talking about what is the minimals we can believe in. Beyond that, there is a whole lot of stuff that is of immense value that are not essentials / minimal beliefs. Just because something isn't scripture, doesn't mean it isn't of value. Commentaries help us understand the value of scripture, they don't add to scripture.

I see.
I did miss the humour in it. My bad. Poes law. Hehe
Do forgive me my sarcasm. Me sorry.
If I knew it was meant for humour I wouldn't go all guns blazing.

No worries. God bless you.

 

[Neogaia777]

Nah, don't throw them out. We are talking about what is the minimals we can believe in. Beyond that, there is a whole lot of stuff that is of immense value that are not essentials / minimal beliefs. Just because something isn't scripture, doesn't mean it isn't of value. Commentaries help us understand the value of scripture, they don't add to scripture.



No worries. God bless you.

"Parables" help even more (likening things almost everyone (even the common man) can easily and readily understand and comprehend to higher, more complex and complicated ideas/thoughts/concepts likening them based on simple and basic things is even more useful.

To bridge the gap, as it were between the common man and the complex man. (you can reach and get a lot more people to understand and comprehend what exactly it is your trying to communicate this way.)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

agape love, God's Love, is not emotion. it is true and simple and righteous obedience, pure and set apart in Yhwh by Yhwh's doing.

NEVER trust nor follow emotions - the heart is the most deceitful of all things (it is written in Scripture, Yhwh's Word, Yhwh's decree).

......
But I ask you all, in your opinions is "agape" love, the act, or the emotion?
....

 

[Neogaia777]

agape love, God's Love, is not emotion. it is true and simple and righteous obedience, pure and set apart in Yhwh by Yhwh's doing.

NEVER trust nor follow emotions - the heart is the most deceitful of all things (it is written in Scripture, Yhwh's Word, Yhwh's decree).

So, my next question becomes, Does God have a heart, and does he "feel" it, feel and is swayed by emotions, or not? Is God's Love only actions, loving acts, if so, what about his wrath (that we know is coming) then...

He has to have a heart and has to be swayed by emotion, to feel wrath, right?

Jesus heart was moved by an emotion (into action) called "pity"

 

[Neogaia777]

Re-posting...

 

[Neogaia777]

Mathematics...

Now, I went through some college, (about a year and a half), and I manged to get up to math 115, (I think it was), but my grades in and through all my math classes in school were never really great, but I managed to make it to math 115, (in college) and then I had to drop it because I was failing it...

But I would like to get into the "reasons" why I failed math and was doing poorly in it, just "getting by" through it... From the third and forth grades in school, I always struggled with math... Everyone was expected to have had and known and memorized their addition/subtraction and multiplication/division tables by the time they reached the fifth, grade... Needless to say I say, I had trouble doing this and so, did not have them down (memorized)...

I "skated by" most my other math classes in school and when I got into college and got "C's" on average mostly, and/but the only reason I was even able to "skate by/through" was because I felt like I could understand most of the principles/concepts/thought's/ideas the "language", I guess you could call it, of some of the higher principles involved in the "language" of mathematics, where I screwed up most all of the time, and what affected my grades, was not knowing/not having memorized, the basic addition/subtraction, multiplication/division tables, basic "arithmetic" in other words, that I knew were the essential building blocks upon which all the other "higher" concepts/principles/thought's/ideas, "language" of all the other "higher" concepts of mathematics were built upon, and I could clearly "see" this and understood this, all as I was "skating by/going through" it (mathematics)...

I soon began to realize that my grades were slumping, not due to my not understanding the concepts/"language" involved, but because I kept screwing up, and making errors on the basic arithmetic (didn't have the basic building blocks memorized or figured out, that all the higher concepts were built upon (knowing)) So, I skated my way on through... I wonder how many other people out there had this same problem with math in school?

Anyways, Now I used this example, cause it made me wonder... Are we doing this spiritually? That is, for me anyway, (but I'm not going to pretend to speak for the rest of you, but if it applies to you, and you can by all means relate, then...?) But anyways, am I (we) "failing" spiritually, because (some of us) we (I) feel like I (we) can grasp or understand (some) of the higher concepts, (some) of the deeper mysteries, (some) of the "language" of it all, but don't have the basic principles, the "arithmetic" down, or/nor can we even agree upon what that is, so as to be able to have it, and even get it memorized/down, makes me wonder...

I wonder if that's why Albert Einstein failed fifth grade remedial math, but then went on to become one of the greatest mathematicians of our time, he must have got over his deficiency of not being able to get his basic math down/memorized at some point in his life, anyways...

And that was the entire "point" of this entire post was so that we all could get down and define and memorize, our basic (spiritual/religious)"arithmetic", the basic principles/premises upon all the rest of the "higher" (spiritual/religious) concepts are built upon....

Thoughts? Ideas? comments? suggestions?

God Bless!

 

[BryanW92]

Mathematics...


And that was the entire "point" of this entire post was so that we all could get down and define and memorize, our basic (spiritual/religious)"arithmetic", the basic principles/premises upon all the rest of the "higher" (spiritual/religious) concepts are built upon....

Thoughts? Ideas? comments? suggestions?

God Bless!

This is post #47 and the question has been answered over and over again.

You can't distill the basics of our Christian beliefs down to a bumper sticker. If you can't accept the Apostles Creed or Nicene Creed, then that is your choice. But, for 1500 years, that has been the lowest common denominator of the Christian faith. If it could have been shortened, it would have been.

 

[Neogaia777]

This is post #47 and the question has been answered over and over again.

You can't distill the basics of our Christian beliefs down to a bumper sticker. If you can't accept the Apostles Creed or Nicene Creed, then that is your choice. But, for 1500 years, that has been the lowest common denominator of the Christian faith. If it could have been shortened, it would have been.

I don't think that it can be distilled down to a bumper sticker, and if the Apostles Creed, or the Nicene Creed are so good and perfect and explains absolutely everything about the All the different denominations Christian Faith and breaks down every denominations faith into one simple short (less than a page) of words that everyone can and should follow then why aren't all denominations of all Christians Faiths using and following them and teaching/reciting them to the letter?

I'll admit their very good words/letters and are and should be very useful and more widely taught in all the Christian Faiths, But I'm looking for something that specifically sums up, in less than a page, "absolutely everything we (all denominations) need to know" and can all accept together as one about all we need to know of/about the Christian Faith...

And while I believe the Apostles Creed, or the Nicene Creed are very valuable and maybe are attempts to do this, I still think they fall short of what I'm looking for...

And so, I still don't think the/this question has been fully answered yet, so...

Anyways, God Bless! and have a good day...

 

[BryanW92]

I don't think that it can be distilled down to a bumper sticker, and if the Apostles Creed, or the Nicene Creed are so good and perfect and explains absolutely everything about the All the different denominations Christian Faith and breaks down every denominations faith into one simple short (less than a page) of words that everyone can and should follow then why aren't all denominations of all Christians Faiths using and following them and teaching/reciting them to the letter?

I'll admit their very good words/letters and are and should be very useful and more widely taught in all the Christian Faiths, But I'm looking for something that specifically sums up, in less than a page, "absolutely everything we (all denominations) need to know" and can all accept together as one about all we need to know of/about the Christian Faith...

And while I believe the Apostles Creed, or the Nicene Creed are very valuable and maybe are attempts to do this, I still think they fall short of what I'm looking for...

And so, I still don't think the/this question has been fully answered yet, so...

Anyways, God Bless! and have a good day...

Just because some churches don't teach the creeds, that doesn't make it flawed. All of the denominations use it. They might not use it weekly, but it is a part of Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and every mainline Protestant denomination. If an individual non-denom church does not use it, it may be due to a lack of education on the pastor's part but that does not invalidate the creeds.

In fact, the creeds are something that every Christian can agree with (once they come to understand what small-c "catholic" means.)

 

[Norah63]

Who so ever will repent and come to Jesus and be born again, the same is the church.
You can't complicate that and man has tried for many years and failed.
Look within to see why anyone would complicate being born again from above.

 

[BryanW92]

Who so ever will repent and come to Jesus and be born again, the same is the church.
You can't complicate that and man has tried for many years and failed.

Are you sure about that?

One church says that you must be baptized by full immersion to be born again.

Another says that you must say a specific prayer.

Another says that you are the Elect and it's all up to God.

Another says that it is purely an act of God's grace and you don't have to do anything except have faith.

Another says that you must join their church and be catechized and confirmed.

Once you start getting into procedures (i.e. if you do this, God will do that), you will never be able to claim that there is one thing we all believe. That's why the creeds are the best general statement of faith. They are only about God and who he is in all his aspects. There is nothing about how or why we do what we do.

When someone says, "Christian, what do you believe?" You tell them about God ("I believe in God the Father....", etc). You don't tell them about your methods for getting saved, taking communion, or which bible is the One True Bible.

 

[Norah63]

When someone asks, give them your testimony. If you are born again, tell them.
If you follow a mans creed tell them that.

 

[BryanW92]

When someone asks, give them your testimony. If you are born again, tell them.
If you follow a mans creed tell them that.

My testimony isn't a basic, simple principle, single premise that we can all agree on.

Please show me the part of the Apostles Creed that does not agree with scripture.

 

[trulyconverted]

I wrote this in a forum titled "different views in Christianity" But I posted this thread to ask "what is /are the basic, simple principles, perhaps a single premise, a base/foundation that all Christian denominations can all agree on?

And I'm going to need to ask for help with this, so please help and add to it if you can, anyways here's what I posted in the other forum about "different views in Christianity" and I'm looking to concentrate on the same views, views/aspects that we can all agree on, anyways...

But no one person, (a man, or a human being) can not get it all, have it all, "right", I can't do it, you can't do it, so why should we expect anyone else to, likewise I don't believe any one church is 100% right all the time on everything either.

And there are many Good things basic, simple principles that most of can and do agree on, but I think that there were meant to be different churches, with varying advanced, complicated ideas, but all built on basic, simple principles, a single premise that we can all agree on, (and maybe we should be working on figuring out exactly what that single premise is) perhaps this would better refocus our efforts, but I do not have that/those answers, (because one single man doesn't know/have everything, with the exception of Jesus Christ himself)

But anyways, there were seven different churches in Jesus Christ and the apostles day, that were each different culturally, which influenced their various views and caused them to have, some could call major, but I would call minor, different point's of view/perspectives on things, yet they were described as being different parts, with different functions, of Christ's body, (the eyes to see, the ears to hear, the hands to shape things the feet to walk, ect.) yet while each part was different, and served a different function, (function, and not purpose) the whole body could come together and be unified to move operate and function, under one unified purpose, one single (elusive to me right now) premise...

Perhaps I should make a post asking Christians to debate/decide what that one unifying premise in Christianity is or could be, I don't know, I'll think about it.

So could can we come up with/make one unifying premise(s) that all Christians can agree on, again I am asking for help with these, please... Thank you, and God bless!

My understanding is this... The hallmark (using this for lack of a better word in my part) of being a true Christian is - the Holy Spirit is residing in that person's heart. Other than that, one is not a true Christian.

This naturally follows... Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you look at this sentence it really covers all.

The greatest is Love. For GOD IS LOVE.

 

[faroukfarouk]

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9 NASB)

A great, foundational verse which summarizes the Gospel well!

Blessings.