What is/are the basic, simple principles, single premise, that we can all agree on?

BryanW92

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Taking a set of mens words, (creed) over the simplicity of the gospel, a simple verse that any new believer could understand.
Whatever.

Norah, there are hundreds of "simple verses that any new believer could understand". But the OP asked for:

"So could can we come up with/make one unifying premise(s) that all Christians can agree on"

The great cloud of witnesses for the past 1600 years has had that premise that is all we believe and it is distilled down to the minimum number of words with no room for denominational differences. The greatest danger of splitting off from all historical churches is that you can lose your connection to the great traditions of Christianity.
 
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SuperLuey

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Taking a set of mens words, (creed) over the simplicity of the gospel, a simple verse that any new believer could understand.
Whatever.

How on earth is the creed mens word???
It is a good summary of the gospel. It is inspired by the gospel. It contains the gospel.
Smh. Come on.
 
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David Waffen

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Do I have documentation that a Greek word DID NOT change its meaning 500 years ago?

But this is a good article: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Catholic

Even Roman Catholics say that the word means "universal" and it always has. If you can get past being called a heretic about a thousand times in the article, they admit that it was good that Protestants kept that in the Creed.

Do you have documentation that it did change?

We both agree it means universal. However, Catholics and Orthodox do not use it to reference 'an invisible church of all believers', but a 'visible church of believers'.

As far as I know, the idea of 'an invisible church of all believers' began at the reformation.
 
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David Waffen

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Oriental Orthodox splits off in 451:
Oriental Orthodoxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Catholic" church splits from "Orthodox church in 1054:
East–West Schism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Anglican" split in the 1530's:
History of the Anglican Communion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are the big ones. There have been many many splits over the centuries.

All of these churches use the Apostle's creed (with the word "catholic") and none of them are in communion with the others.

The oriental orthodox are coming back into communion with catholics and orthodox. The catholics and orthodox (it is debatable who split from whom)
are separated over long standing political/jurisdictional differences.

Anglicans subscribe to protestant theology. It may have been possible that in time a common language and understanding resolved differences. That is, the differences were in how something was expressed, not how something we understood. Ultimately, they decided to ordain women which now makes communion with orthodox and catholics impossible.

By the way, we all need to agree with the nicene creed to be posting here...
 
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BryanW92

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We both agree it means universal. However, Catholics and Orthodox do not use it to reference 'an invisible church of all believers', but a 'visible church of believers'.

As far as I know, the idea of 'an invisible church of all believers' began at the reformation.

OK. But that has nothing to do with the word "catholic" in the Apostles Creed except to reinforce that we, as Protestants, do believe in one universal church. It adds to the creed's credibility, rather than taking away from it.

Perhaps I'm confused. Are you agreeing that we should use the Apostles Creed or are you arguing against it?
 
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David Waffen

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OK. But that has nothing to do with the word "catholic" in the Apostles Creed except to reinforce that we, as Protestants, do believe in one universal church. It adds to the creed's credibility, rather than taking away from it.

Perhaps I'm confused. Are you agreeing that we should use the Apostles Creed or are you arguing against it?

I said that during the reformation the concept of catholic as universal went from 'believers of a visible universal church' to 'all believers of an invisible universal church'.
 
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BryanW92

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I said that during the reformation the concept of catholic as universal went from 'believers of a visible universal church' to 'all believers of an invisible universal church'.

OK. I can agree with that. The "katholikos" left the building, so to speak! :amen:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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there have been many believers in china, africa, russia, and israel who don't even come close to agreeing with a lot that is posted on this site or in this forum or in this thread,

but they have faith , living true obedient faith in Yhwh(God)
and they ALL
SIMPLY agree they will do what God says to do.
They ALL trust God, that He does (and that He will do) just as He says He will do, (He is Faithful, even if we are unfaithful)
and they do all that He tells them to do.
 
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Sayre

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How on earth is the creed mens word???
It is a good summary of the gospel. It is inspired by the gospel. It contains the gospel.
Smh. Come on.

Why use the words of men when you could use the words of another man? LOL

1 Cor 15:3-5 does the trick.
 
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David Waffen

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there have been many believers in china, africa, russia, and israel who don't even come close to agreeing with a lot that is posted on this site or in this forum or in this thread,

but they have faith , living true obedient faith in Yhwh(God)
and they ALL
SIMPLY agree they will do what God says to do.
They ALL trust God, that He does (and that He will do) just as He says He will do, (He is Faithful, even if we are unfaithful)
and they do all that He tells them to do.

That is called heresy. If they do not believe the same thing, then they cannot agree on what to do.
 
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SuperLuey

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Why use the words of men when you could use the words of another man? LOL

1 Cor 15:3-5 does the trick.

Thank you for opening my eye to the fact that this truth is included in the creed too.
Your line of reasoning is akin to saying any song or book written based on the revelation got from this scripture should be ignored.
Why do you think like that brother? :priest:
Seriously I want to know. I'm not trying to impose myself. I'm willing to learn. :)
 
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Sayre

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Thank you for opening my eye to the fact that this truth is included in the creed too.
I'm hoping next you will say modern psalmists & writers songs should be ignored because they are not quoting the scripture in their songs.
Your line of reasoning is akin to saying any song or book written based on the revelation got from this scripture should be ignored.
Why do you think like that brother? :priest:

So it seems you've missed my sense of humour and responded with something a little bit sarcastic. I forgive you. And PS - I'm a sister ;).

My point was that 1 Cor 15:3-5 is a creed, and it is an earlier creed. In fact, some think it is the earliest creed.

This creed was included in scripture, as scripture, by the Church, who God used to develop the Bible.

But it is a lot more minimalistic than the nicene creed.
 
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SuperLuey

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So it seems you've missed my sense of humour and responded with something a little bit sarcastic. I forgive you. And PS - I'm a sister ;).

My point was that 1 Cor 15:3-5 is a creed, and it is an earlier creed. In fact, some think it is the earliest creed.

This creed was included in scripture, as scripture, by the Church, who God used to develop the Bible.

But it is a lot more minimalistic than the nicene creed.

I see.
I did miss the humour in it. My bad. Poes law. Hehe
Do forgive me my sarcasm. Me sorry. :(
If I knew it was meant for humour I wouldn't go all guns blazing.
 
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bottomofsandal

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So it seems you've missed my sense of humour and responded with something a little bit sarcastic. I forgive you. And PS - I'm a sister ;).

My point was that 1 Cor 15:3-5 is a creed, and it is an earlier creed. In fact, some think it is the earliest creed.

This creed was included in scripture, as scripture, by the Church, who God used to develop the Bible.

But it is a lot more minimalistic than the nicene creed.


Yeah, Paul says it is of first importance:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

New King James Version (NKJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
 
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Neogaia777

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Taking a set of mens words, (creed) over the simplicity of the gospel, a simple verse that any new believer could understand.
Whatever.

Exactly!, I believe the apostles creed and other things (but we must remember "of men") can be useful but should not be used to establish doctrine, I believe only words directly from the scriptures can do that (Gods words, not men) and I also believe strongly in Jesus words only being the only perfect words, with no mistakes or errors.

Men, even Godly men, even the apostles disciples words, while still being very useful, can have slight subtle errors or mistakes in them, due to the imperfections (sin nature) inherent in every fallen man (except Jesus Christ)

Oftentimes men can make subtle mistakes (slight, but the closer you are to God, the fewer they will be) "errors, mistakes of adding from their own take or own philosophies that could be just slightly (in a man that is kinda close to God, yet not perfect, like Christ) slightly "off" the mark a little bit.

I am glad that apostles like Paul, for example found it very important to distinguish and explain between what he believed was God and Christ's take, and what was his own (opinion) he did this many times and I thought that was very wise of him.

So, although one person accused me of having "limited" knowledge when it comes to (mens) ideas & philosophies, they could be partially correct because (and what I feel I do know) is the fact that I take my knowledge from the only (perfect) source I feel I can fully trust and that is directly from the bible and it's words, and more specifically I cling to and try to memorize every single word the only perfect man said, and my knowledge is based on that, all others I don't fully trust because I know that slight errors are going to come to fore due to the imperfection (sin) inherent in every (other) man.

I tend to scrutinize (only a little bit though in the case of the men that I feel are closer to God, than the ungodly) the words and philosophies and ideas of the ungodly, I severely scrutinize and really don't trust at all, I think they are just a bunch of befuddlers and confusers and confounders and are leading many astray from the truth.

But, back to my original idea, I think we (christians) can all agree on the fact that Jesus Christ was the one and only perfect man, and therefore his words are perfect and completely free from any errors, and we can fully trust them (to perhaps build a foundation upon, lay our stones for the building in line with the chief cornerstone, I am just trying to figure out what that is exactly.

Love God, Love people, (in short the two commandments that all law is based upon, because if we all have a deep mutual respect for one another (and God), and treat each other with respect (and God), we will be loving God and one another and will not desire to do anything at all "bad" against them, or God, (to injure them, hurt them, or do them harm) and us becoming a respecter of persons and God, is something I think we can all agree on, right?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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NOW you got it! Find the very few ones who do not add to Scripture, and you will find great blessing indeed and in truth in Christ Jesus Himself! yes !

Might as well throw out all my commentaries on scriptures since they add to it. Sigh
 
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Sayre

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Exactly!, I believe the apostles creed and other things (but we must remember "of men") can be useful but should not be used to establish doctrine, I believe only words directly from the scriptures can do that (Gods words, not men) and I also believe strongly in Jesus words only being the only perfect words, with no mistakes or errors.

Men, even Godly men, even the apostles disciples words, while still being very useful, can have slight subtle errors or mistakes in them, due to the imperfections (sin nature) inherent in every fallen man (except Jesus Christ)

Oftentimes men can make subtle mistakes (slight, but the closer you are to God, the fewer they will be) "errors, mistakes of adding from their own take or own philosophies that could be just slightly (in a man that is kinda close to God, yet not perfect, like Christ) slightly "off" the mark a little bit.

I am glad that apostles like Paul, for example found it very important to distinguish and explain between what he believed was God and Christ's take, and what was his own (opinion) he did this many times and I thought that was very wise of him.

So, although one person accused me of having "limited" knowledge when it comes to (mens) ideas & philosophies, they could be partially correct because (and what I feel I do know) is the fact that I take my knowledge from the only (perfect) source I feel I can fully trust and that is directly from the bible and it's words, and more specifically I cling to and try to memorize every single word the only perfect man said, and my knowledge is based on that, all others I don't fully trust because I know that slight errors are going to come to fore due to the imperfection (sin) inherent in every (other) man.

I tend to scrutinize (only a little bit though in the case of the men that I feel are closer to God, than the ungodly) the words and philosophies and ideas of the ungodly, I severely scrutinize and really don't trust at all, I think they are just a bunch of befuddlers and confusers and confounders and are leading many astray from the truth.

But, back to my original idea, I think we (christians) can all agree on the fact that Jesus Christ was the one and only perfect man, and therefore his words are perfect and completely free from any errors, and we can fully trust them (to perhaps build a foundation upon, lay our stones for the building in line with the chief cornerstone, I am just trying to figure out what that is exactly.

Love God, Love people, (in short the two commandments that all law is based upon, because if we all have a deep mutual respect for one another (and God), and treat each other with respect (and God), we will be loving God and one another and will not desire to do anything at all "bad" against them, or God, (to injure them, hurt them, or do them harm) and us becoming a respecter of persons and God, is something I think we can all agree on, right?

If you add inerrancy to your list of essentials that we all agree upon you've just lost a whole stack of people.
 
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