What if a gay family comes to the Church?

[AureateDawn]

So let's fast forward a decade or two. There's a legally "married" homosexual couple, and they have two children together. A loving, relatively normal family. Let's say one partner, or both partners, are suddenly drawn to the Holy Orthodox Church. How would this be handled? I know it'd take a lot of personal pastoral care, but just for discussion, how would the Church handle this?

There would an actual family, with children, a home, etc. and they are legally married in the eyes of the government (but not the Church, of course). But yet they seek the fullness of the Faith, and are strongly convicted to join Orthodoxy.

What would happen? I know they wouldn't be turned away. Surely the Church wouldn't seek to break up the family. Would they still be able to be a family and the two homosexual parents refrain from sex over time, assuming they were both committed to converting? Etc.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Give them directions to the nearest Episcopal Church!

 

[Kristos]

I think there are already a lot of gay people who get married, have children and are relatively normal families, and Orthodox.

 

[AureateDawn]

I think there are already a lot of gay people who get married, have children and are relatively normal families, and Orthodox.

Then how does that work out? Do they not receive Eucharist? Do they refrain from sex despite their "marriage" and the length of their relationship? Since a homosexual Orthodox person couldn't go out and get same-sex legally married and have children, how would an existing and established gay family exist within the Church?

 

[Lukaris]

I am not trying to dismiss your question, but perhaps you really might want to ask a priest about this. I do not usually respond so generally but this is something we will probably just be grasping at.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No Orthodox parish priest or bishop is going to accept a homosexual "marriage." It goes against the fundamental teachings of the faith. Economia is not something applied here.

I actually asked my priest about this one time. He said it's utterly absurd and in no way would any credible Orthodox priest allow someone in a gay relationship to take communion and be part of parish life unless they repented of it. It's an invalid union and a serious sin.

 

[Eric Hibbert]

So let's fast forward a decade or two. There's a legally "married" homosexual couple, and they have two children together. A loving, relatively normal family. Let's say one partner, or both partners, are suddenly drawn to the Holy Orthodox Church. How would this be handled? I know it'd take a lot of personal pastoral care, but just for discussion, how would the Church handle this?

There would an actual family, with children, a home, etc. and they are legally married in the eyes of the government (but not the Church, of course). But yet they seek the fullness of the Faith, and are strongly convicted to join Orthodoxy.

Not Orthodox, but our church, we would explain the Gospel to them, call them to repent, and explain the necessary requirements for membership in our church (which, outside of repentence, a profession of faith, and baptism, being the bare minimum, are not an option at this point).

What would happen? I know they wouldn't be turned away.

They might. We turn people away all the time.

Surely the Church wouldn't seek to break up the family.

We don't believe they're a family. Yes, we would call them to repent, which would necessitate an end to their "relationship".

Would they still be able to be a family

They're not a family in the first place.

and the two homosexual parents refrain from sex over time, assuming they were both committed to converting? Etc.

No.

By the way, I should probably also point out that, while anyone is welcome to visit, we do not accept "families" as members, only individuals. That's not to say that members of a family can't join together, but they have to meet the criteria individually.

Which is why I love the Holy Orthodox Church - no one is turned away

That's not a good thing. The Bible gives certain criteria for Church membership. Repentence is one of them.

[quotThat's pretty ridiculous of you to say they're not a family.[/quote]

Sorry. I'm just a big believer that words have definitions.

A family is a family.

I agree. A family is a family. But if a family is a family, then a group of people who are not a family is not a family.

 

[Eric Hibbert]

Give them directions to the nearest Episcopal Church!

LOL...

...or Methodist.

 

[Kristos]

Then how does that work out? Do they not receive Eucharist? Do they refrain from sex despite their "marriage" and the length of their relationship? Since an Orthodox person couldn't go out and get married and have children, how would an existing and established family exist within the Church?

I'm not following...how would they have children if they don't have sex?

 

[SharonL]

Once again the sins of the parents will affect the children. As sad as it seems, the legal system will deem it all legal and the punishment for not accepting this as normal will soon make it a non-event in the eyes of people, however - there is still the issue of what about the eyes of God? God does not change to fit politically correctness. Judgement day will still happen and because of the legal system making it all legal - these people will not feel they have broken God's laws. Then who will the judgement be against - the person who has not been taught it is wrong or the legal system that make it appear all right. That mental attitude is a ways off right now - but it will come.

 

[AureateDawn]

I'm not following...how would they have children if they don't have sex?

Come on, now. Same-sex partners can't have children together of their own. That's common sense and anatomy. So in the scenario I'm discussing, for clarification's sake, the gay couple adopted both children and gave a loving, stable home to two children who needed a family.

They might. We turn people away all the time.

They're not a family in the first place.

Which is why I love the Holy Orthodox Church - no one is turned away, all are called to come home to Christ and the hospital that is the Church.

That's pretty ridiculous of you to say they're not a family. Just because it isn't a nuclear one man one woman? What of straight single parents who adopt? Or mothers who were in a bad relationship, had a child, got out of it, and are now single mothers (and doing just fine)? Or the messed up situation of a divorced home where the children have two parents that never have anything to do with one another and additionally have step parents?

A family is a family. Whether straight, gay, nuclear, single, blood, friends you found that make your family, etc. The hypothetical family in my scenario is very much a family, just as much as my family is a family (even if we're broken). Thanks.

No Orthodox parish priest or bishop is going to accept a homosexual "marriage." It goes against the fundamental teachings of the faith. Economia is not something applied here.

I actually asked my priest about this one time. He said it's utterly absurd and in no way would any credible Orthodox priest allow someone in a gay relationship to take communion and be part of parish life unless they repented of it. It's an invalid union and a serious sin.

Well of course. From an Orthodox background, this is common sense. They couldn't have an active sex life together (that is, the two gay parents) and receive communion, surely. I think you're missing the question(s) - how would a gay family come to Orthodoxy? Assume that they would be willing to give up sex, etc. But they still have a home, life, and children together. How would it all work out? Because even without sex, they still would be a gay Orthodox family, which isn't something a cradle Orthodox could seek out, yet it is possible for this situation to happen with converts. Again, this is a gay family where one (or both) partners are drawn to the Holy Church, even though they already have an established life.

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[Mariya116]

So let's fast forward a decade or two. There's a legally "married" homosexual couple, and they have two children together. A loving, relatively normal family. Let's say one partner, or both partners, are suddenly drawn to the Holy Orthodox Church. How would this be handled? I know it'd take a lot of personal pastoral care, but just for discussion, how would the Church handle this?

There would an actual family, with children, a home, etc. and they are legally married in the eyes of the government (but not the Church, of course). But yet they seek the fullness of the Faith, and are strongly convicted to join Orthodoxy.

What would happen? I know they wouldn't be turned away. Surely the Church wouldn't seek to break up the family. Would they still be able to be a family and the two homosexual parents refrain from sex over time, assuming they were both committed to converting? Etc.

If the Church means me, I would be nice to them and mind my business.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

Well if the two are truly convicted of the truths of Orthodoxy that would include the sinfulness of homosexuality, so they're trying to stop committing these sins as well. I don't think the priest could allow them to remain living together - it would be too great a temptation and too great a scandal within the parish. The men may continue to raise the children between the two of them, but in two separate homes and with no greater relationship or affection between the two of them than that of a close friendship. Some priests may suggest or require them to put the children back up for adoption.

The realities of sin are dealt with, and sometimes the outcome isn't 'pretty', but sinful decisions which are convenient and supported by the world which meet the reality of the truth isn't always as convenient or clean as the world allows them to be.

 

[QueSi]

So let's fast forward a decade or two. There's a legally "married" homosexual couple, and they have two children together. A loving, relatively normal family. Let's say one partner, or both partners, are suddenly drawn to the Holy Orthodox Church. How would this be handled? I know it'd take a lot of personal pastoral care, but just for discussion, how would the Church handle this?

There would an actual family, with children, a home, etc. and they are legally married in the eyes of the government (but not the Church, of course). But yet they seek the fullness of the Faith, and are strongly convicted to join Orthodoxy.

What would happen? I know they wouldn't be turned away. Surely the Church wouldn't seek to break up the family. Would they still be able to be a family and the two homosexual parents refrain from sex over time, assuming they were both committed to converting? Etc.

Are members of your church not allowed to ever sin? What happens if a member of your church commits a sin?

 

[Cappadocious]

Then how does that work out? Do they not receive Eucharist? Do they refrain from sex despite their "marriage" and the length of their relationship? Since an Orthodox person couldn't go out and get married and have children, how would an existing and established family exist within the Church?

Think he's talking about people who realize they're gay after entering into a heterosexual marriage, who choose to honor their marriage regardless.

Or he could be referring to "marrying the gay away", a sectarian protestant practice in which a homosexual is paired with a member of the opposite sex.

 

[Cappadocious]

I don't think the priest could allow them to remain living together - it would be too great a temptation and too great a scandal within the parish.

I disagree.

Some priests may suggest or require them to put the children back up for adoption.

That would be absurd.

Are members of your church not allowed to ever sin?

Yes, that's sort of the point.

What happens if a member of your church commits a sin?

They repent.

 

[AureateDawn]

I could be wrong, but I think he is referring to a gay/ lesbian couple that has either adopted children or had surrogate mother/sperm donor in order to have a child, and then the couple with child come to the Orthodox Church.

Yes, you are correct. The hypothetical couple legally married, adopted children, established a home and family together, then felt pulled to the Orthodox faith.

Are members of your church not allowed to ever sin? What happens if a member of your church commits a sin?

I am not a member of a church.

Well if the two are truly convicted of the truths of Orthodoxy that would include the sinfulness of homosexuality, so they're trying to stop committing these sins as well. I don't think the priest could allow them to remain living together - it would be too great a temptation and too great a scandal within the parish. The men may continue to raise the children between the two of them, but in two separate homes and with no greater relationship or affection between the two of them than that of a close friendship. Some priests may suggest or require them to put the children back up for adoption.

The realities of sin are dealt with, and sometimes the outcome isn't 'pretty', but sinful decisions which are convenient and supported by the world which meet the reality of the truth isn't always as convenient or clean as the world allows them to be.

Okay, this is getting to the answers of my questions.

Your answer is a bit surprising to me. I figured it'd be in the best interest of all parties, especially the children, to remain in a single home with a family. No sex between the same-sex parents, and perhaps move to two separate bedrooms, but keep the family intact. Their love could evolve from a sexual relationship to that of true brotherly love and affection while raising their children in the Faith.

If any priest would suggest put the children back up for adoption, which means to take the only parents they have ever known away from them, and destroy their home... that is just cruel, and not Christ-like or loving at all. Surely Jesus would not treat those children so unjustly.

 

[QueSi]

I disagree.

That would be absurd.

Yes, that's sort of the point.

They repent.

So they are allowed, as long as they repent?

 

[Cappadocious]

So they are allowed, as long as they repent?

Yes. And if they do not repent, they are not "shunned" from the community. They only do not participate in the Eucharist, etc.